Chris,

I think it was your good friend Kevin Nielson who introduced the world to a skilled forger by the name of Greg Marino...what if he had not written Operation Bullpen and the FBI would have kept quiet the names of those involved...if you have information that will help improve the hobby, then why keep it a secret....

Do you really think it's as easy and simple as that, James?

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't...but, you has always stood by JSA and he evidently got this wrong, so any information would be appreciated. If you can't share, then just refrain from putting it out there.

Your name is "thetruthisoutthere"...if it is, then share...If not, then change your name to "thetruthisouttherebutitsmineallmine"

James, I have shared a ton of information with the hobby over the last decade or so.

I have done so at risk to myself because it is worth it. I have been physically threatened a few times. One was threatening enough that I had to document it with my local police department in case something happened to me.

Some information I will never share. A lot of of the information I acquire is through my own efforts. Some of it is entrusted to me.

James, have you ever thought about taking the time, effort and expense to do what I do?

If you ever do, then you will know exactly what I mean.

It isn't as easy as you say it is.

And I will repeat this; I had someone here relay a message of concern to Huggins & Scott about the Babe Ruth Signed Ticket auction a week before I posted this.

I was hoping that Huggins & Scott would have taken it down and at the least, had it re-examined.

We'll just have to see how this all plays out.

they did have it re-examined by spence and he said it was good, why would they take it down because you said so with no explanation just "i said so"

it might be bad, it might be good, but you just keep the info to yourself, that's ridiculous. why post it in the first place? just to be coy? no one cares anymore if everything is james bond ejector seat theatrics.

when we show boxing, we can explain and will explain each psa or jsa screwup to anyones satisfaction. why, how and in detail just what is wrong with the signature, why can't you do that? do you know ruth, if so, share!!

Chris, what you do is fantastic and appreciated. But we are all hungry for as much information we can get. To me the Ruth sig looks good, but if you say no, then I believe you. But tell us why if you can, or at least as much as you can.

+1

I agree 100%

+100.

Also, as long as you do your man-behind-the-curtain act, don't whine about snide comments. You are asking for them.

chris don't have to tell us, but he can pass what he knows onto huggins&scott and let them make the determination. he said a member here expressed concern a week before the auction started, so maybe we got a stalemate of differing opinions.

That's not what I wrote.

I wrote that I had a member here on Net54 relay a message to Huggins & Scott about my concern about the Babe Ruth Signed Ticket.

Each person who complains and begs for more information, is just feeding the drama - that is all this is about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

How difficult is it to post the entire Ruth piece, inscription, and all?

OK, I must've entered bizarro world today because I am reading a Travis post that is lucid, makes 100% sense, and I completely agree with it. ;)

Are you serious, James?

With all respect to Kevin Nelson, the "Operation Bullpen" participants were all interviewed and discussing Greg Marino years before the book "Operation Bullpen" came out.

There were interviews in the Sweetspot News, SCD and other publications well before Kevin's book.

There was also the HBO Special (my good friends Shelly, Rich and I were participants) that aired in Jan. 2006.

Well Operation Bullpen is where I first heard the name Greg Marino and that is what led me to the HBO special, etc. I am 31 years old and have to feel that most my age are probably in that same boat. All that aside, you get my point. These are autographs, not a cure for cancer or war secrets.

What, and remove all of the drama we've come to expect. What do you wan,t a boring hobby?

Ask myself or Richard how serious the forgers are about their business.

Richard has been sued twice and I've been threatened hundreds of times over the past decade.

You have no idea, James. You don't have a clue.

Did you read that personal attack directed at me from those pathetic cowards over at ANL!!!

I read it and I understand how tough it must be to take down forgers, but at the same time...why bring up such vague details that YOU KNOW people are going to want to learn more about....why dangle the carrot?

Give it up, James. We'll get nothing from Chris. (Except, of course, how completely full of himself he is. Oh, the sacrifices he's made for us. "It's what he does.")

Still waiting to see the entire Ruth photo Chris. Or is it to dangerous to post it?

Why?

Whenever you don't get your way, David, you toss insults.

Why?

I possess information that you want, and because I won't give it to you, you hurl insults.

Why?

Why don't you and James do your own leg work if you want certain information that badly?

I have to agree with Chris. If Chris knows for certain that a signature is bad, then all he has to do is tell us so, and we should accept it. If you guys want to know what his evidence is, you'll have to figure it out on your own. He gave us the clue we needed by supplying us with the 'fact' that the signature is bad. He didn't get where he is by giving away the reasons and facts behind his decisions. So in a way, he is teaching us how to fish, as opposed to handing us a fish.

Now we just need to have a contest to see who's facts coincide closest to the real facts that Chris is in possession of.

Get to work boys.

there is no proof of anything, he is not in possession of anything. no one wants what he has, because he doesn't have anything. and anything not worthy of showing other people in a hobby where the proof is in the pudding is not of any consequence.

I get the frustration...but what Chris is doing is no different than what the two big TPA's do. :rolleyes:

I haven't seen them come here and post something and ask people what they think. In that way what he does is different. And I don't care whether he shares what he knows or thinks he knows, that's up to him. Just pointing out the difference in response to your post.

Cool. I'll get right to that....David should I call you or do you wanna call me? Wanna get pizza or Chinese?

That's a fair question David. Maybe I should not.

What I find really amazing is how so many of you are upset with Chris. He says its bad and you go after him like he committed a crime. If you think he is correct good if you dont good. There is not one person on this site that does not know how Chris goes about his work. Enough all ready.

With every post you make, Chris--and, of course, with every post you don''t make-you lose more and more credibility.

Nice work.

Coming from you, David, I take that as a compliment.

Shelly,

I have actually been very civil with Chris. Even several page back when he said "JSA did not cert this Ruth" and I politely displayed the screenshot showing they did.
The issue isn't Chris the person, but rather the condescending tone he takes anytime he responds. He doesn't know me, so calling me clueless is uncalled for.

Alicia Silverstone and Brittany Murphy are "Clueless" not I.

Chris, have you relayed 100% of the information you have regarding this autograph to H&S or JSA?

Chris tells us that the Babe Ruth ticket is a forgery. He is disappointed in JSA and Huggins. Should they pull the item just bc he says they should? I wouldn't. He says he has relayed all information to Huggins. They do the right thing and come on here and tell us in a fairly detailed manner why they believe Chris is wrong. If Chris really believes it is bad, he should post why. If there is general agreement here that Chris is right, I guarantee that Huggins will do the right thing. That is why it is important Shelly. To say "we'll that's how Chris does it" is fine, but it is not a reason for Huggins to pull the item. Up to this point they have done the right and stand up thing; it is Chris who has not.

Steve and Dan, all of the participants are well aware of my concerns.

Did I expect Huggins & Scott to pull it because of my concerns? No.

Should they pull that Babe Ruth Signed Ticket because of my concerns? Probably not.

But I did want to make all of the participants aware of my concerns.

I wouldn't have posted this thread if I wasn't serious.

Thank you, Shelly.

James, it was your demanding attitude that perturbed me. Then, on top of that, you had your facts wrong.

James, have you ever considered doing your own leg work if you desire certain information?

James, if one day you decide to do take your own time and expense to acquire information that you desire, and if you acquire that information, then you can make your own decision whether or not to publish it.

Chris,

You love to pick fights so let's do it...Please use your copy/paste magic to show where my attitude was "demanding"....and please include examples that were unprovoked and unwarranted.

I honestly always wanted to avoid getting into these kind of thread spats with you, but man...you just make it too easy. You are the one and only COMMON DENOMINATOR in every thread that goes south...

Also, as far as "own legwork" is concerned...my religion, job, wife, and 2 little girls (ages 4 & 2) take precedent over all of that. This started out as a thread asking for you to provide additional details of your findings just like every other thread that ends up like this.

Ruth Ticket
 

I own the Ruth ticket in question. Josh passed the link to me and I registered this morning. I would be happy to answer any questions anyone may have regarding the item. The only thing I can really do is convey the story of how I obtained it.

Welcome!

Maybe you could tell us what additional evidence Chris may have shared with you. I am just doing my own "legwork". :D

James, I can certainly appreciate your more important commitments, but since you're not doing the leg work to acquire that information, I will decide what I will or will not publish.

Fair enough?

So at the end of the day, Chris says it's bad, SGC says it's good (twice) if I am reading this right. Neither is inclined to tell you why. Some that's good enough for, some not. All in all just a typical Net54 Autograph Forum thread, right?

Ruth Ticket
 

I haven't spoken to him yet. I did read the string and what I can tell you is I was given the ticket by a women that stated she was at the game and saw Babe at a radio broadcast after and had the ticket signed. My dad was a maintenance manger at a condo complex in Delray Beach Florida for over 20 years. This woman was one of the residents. My dad would talk to all the residents and apparently my brother and I were topics for him to bring up. I was living in Florida after I got out of the service and he apparently told her I was a Yankee fan (I grew up in NYC). She asked him if he thought I would like a Babe Ruth autograph. She apparently went into her bedroom and came out with the ticket. My dad conveyed this to me, I went over to meet her, and had a nice chat and wound up with the ticket. I then took it and put it in one of those plastic holders with screws and have had it since sometime in 1992. I am not sure but judging by where she lived and the story I would put her at close to 70 when I met her.

Fair enough Chris. Thank you for the details you have already provided.

If you don't mind me asking, at what point were you prompted to have the piece authenticated and if you knew it was authentic, then why send it off for 3rd party authentication?

Ruth Ticket
 

A) I don't mind you asking at all B) It was authenticated when I sent it to Huggins and Scott to be auctioned.

Thank you for your response.:)

Thank you, James, and you're welcome.

Much appreciated.

Sounds like a scenario for "Treasure Detectives". They will:

• Verify Ruths' whereabouts
• verify womans identity and movements
• Authenticate ticket
• Authenticate autograph
• X-ray the ticket for the hell of it
• Talk to Chris

So what do folks think specifically about the Ruth autograph? When Chris posted it, I felt it was good. David did as well. What do others think?

I am going to say no but I sure would like the people I respect to open there mouths.:D

I believe the autograph is authentic and have from the beginning.

What details?

Here is what Chris has said:

"This Ruth is bad."
"This one is, too."
"The forger of these lives in Michigan."

You see any "details"?

Those are the details I was referring to...now on to my own legwork...

I want to believe that the ticket/signature is real, but my gut is telling me no. I don't believe the stub is real and that in itself should rule out the signature.

We can all see that they are aware of your concerns...have you relayed to them 100% of what you know about this autograph? You don't have to tell us what that is, because obviously you are not going to tell us, but have you told them WHY it is bad?

Dan, according to the consignor, Chris has never been in touch.
But he did announce to the board that he sought his contact info.

Issuing pronouncements to the board should be enough. How dare anyone ask for more?

David,

Sorry if it came out that way. Chris left me a message yesterday with no phone number and said he would call me back this afternoon. I am still waiting to hear from him today.

He's probably out doing some legwork...

According to the consignor's own post Chris did get in touch with him. They were just playing phone tag.
Seems like some people will go out of their way to knock others, even if it means making posts with incorrect statements.

Hey, Richard! Good to hear from you! How about an opinion on the Ruth ticket?

C'mon, Richard. We're all waiting for you to take a stand.

How difficult is it to answer the question I posed? Nothing is going to be revealed to Net54 by answering my question. We're all supposed to think that Chris is the final word on this autograph and how dare H&S not pull it from the auction, but we don't even know if Chris told them what he knows about it.

Ask Chris a few more times. That doesn't work for my questions, but maybe it'll work for yours.

Dan, you're far too diplomatic. You act as if Chris is not full of shit, giving him the benefit of the doubt again and again. In reality, Chris "knows" nothing more than he's already said. "The Ruth is bad." His "eye" told him, and his eye is never wrong.

Keep to the high road David. You've been great on this thread.

OK, Steve. Thanks for reining me in.

Dan, what are you talking about?

I went fishing earlier today, Dan. Then I spent a few hours watching both the Knicks and the Yankees, Dan. Is that okay with you, Dan?

I sent Josh my phone number, Dan. When he calls, him and I will talk and I will explain everything to him, Dan.

Amazing, Dan, the demanding from you.

But it's okay for Atkatz to call me a a**hole and no one writes a word about that, Dan.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=166656&page=3

And, Dan, it's okay for Atkatz to hurl insult after insult at me, but no demand for him to stop from anyone.

Interesting double-standard around here. Either that, or David's feeble attempts to intellectually-bully people around here is working.

Chris, I'm not even going to try and moderate the fights between you two anymore, Chris. Chris, you give as good as you get as far as I can tell, Chris...is that okay with you, Chris? Chris, thanks for clarifying that you have not given H&S all of the info, Chris.

I am not sure what info there is to give to H&S. I have had the ticket/autograph in my possession for the past 20 years...

Just ignore the little man behind the curtain.

And good luck with the auction.

Thank you David

I don't want you to, Dan.

But at the same time, I don't want to hear crap from anyone for defending myself.

Seems like it's okay for Atkatz to insult me, but when I defend myself it's called "fueling the thread."

This coming from the same "collector" who wrote in the below thread "Nice pickup, the autograph book looks good."

Nice "eye," David.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...autograph+book

Maybe you should have done some "legwork" before you purchased that Fang-Penned "1927 NY Yankees" team-signed baseball.

Chris, try as I might, I just can't achieve perfection.

Can you tell us how you did it?

The difference I see is that you are playing Cloak & Dagger where nobody else is. Teaser threads with no payoff suck, and you're the master. If you don't want your feet held to the fire then don't play games. Which is what you're doing.....playing games. You're not educating. You started this thread and you've not said not one thing about why this signature is bad.

Mark Fimoff is our resident expert on baseball photography identification...when something is bad he tells us why, he goes step by step and shows us exactly why something is not right. He does a lot of legwork in doing this, and does not hold that as capital. He freely gives us this information to make this hobby a better one. You could do that too.

Edited to add: The auction houses don't always listen to him, but when he brings his concerns to Net54 and lays them out they amazingly change their tune.

As Jackson Browne famously wrote, "Don't confront me with my failures. I've not forgotten them."

Oh, to have lived a failure-free life, like yours, Chris.