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I thought for sure that it was Pirates Rookie Stars under Schofield but when I compared the miscut to a #498 Pirates Rookie Stars card the white in the corner didn't match Woodie Fryman's black sleeve, so I looked at what other Rookie Stars cards there are in the Series and forgot there is a Red Sox, it has the same color as the Pirates and the white of Joe Foy's uniform matches the white in the corner so I'm positive #456 Red Sox Rookie Stars is under Dick Schofield.
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Couple new ones by Battersbox today -
Manny Jimenez under what appears to be a Red or Twins (we also have him beneath an Angel or Brave). Also, Tony Gonzalez is on the top of at least one slit - this gives us 4 cards in a top row - Gonzalez, Aaron, Lolich and Wynn. |
With the Schofield over the Red Sox rookies, we now have 6 of 7 in another column - Schofield, Red Sox Rookies, Gibbon, Braves Rookies, Coleman, Hannan.
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Vic Roznovsky is under Steve Barber, it's an Astro/Oriole under Barber with a flaw near the right edge of the top border line that matches every Roznovsky card.
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I don't think anyone has called this one yet, it is a Dodger/Yankee under Wynn and the only cards as of now it can be are Ferrara and Friend, I am very confident it is Ferrara because it looks like real sky unlike the Friend with the fake blue background and there is a miscut Friend with a Cub/White Sox above him. The only possibility of it being Friend is he has two different rows above him which I very highly doubt so I am going to call it Ferrara.
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Hannan Schofield Red Sox Rookie Stars and Gibbon Braves Rookie Stars Coleman |
I believe these are the current vertical combos we have in the interior not including the LE and the RE cards:
Phillie-Indian Barber Roznovsky Kline F Howard Oliva Simmons Ellsworth Hannan Schofield Red Sox Rookie Stars Dodger/Yankee Richardson B Rodgers Cannizzaro Belinsky Wyatt Gibbon Braves Rookie Stars Coleman Bunker Bob Lee Buford Latman Red/Twin Yankees Rookie Stars Bressoud Blefary Klippstein Brave/Angel Jimenez O'Donoghue Wynn Ferrara Hatton Athletics Team |
1. Wasn't there that strange miscut of Howard, with yellow above, i.e., Card/Tiger but the coloring went close to the edge?
2. isn't there a Brave/Angel or perhaps an Indian/Phil under Coleman? 3. There is a MC of Azcue, which had been tentaively, but not conclusively, identifed as Buford. 4. A card or Tiger is below Klippstein. 5. Indian/Phil may be above Wynn. 6. Radatz appears to be above Rollins 7. A top Mc of Covington appears to have a Phil/Indian. A bottom Mc of Covington might have a Cub/WS below him 8. McAuliffe appears to have a Twin/Red below him 9. A pirate or Red Sox is above Bailey 10. A pirate/Red Sox is above Ken Johnson 11. A WS or Cub is above Hargan (508) 12. I can't definitely say, but there might be Indian/Phil above Lenny Green (502) 14. A Senator or Giant is above Linz (522) 15 A twin/Red is also above O'donoghue 16. Phillies team has Indian-Phil above it 17. Pirate or Red Sox above McDaniel 18. There is a card below George Banks that hasn't been positively identified but may be Indian/Phil 19. A Twin/Red is above Tommy John 20. There is a coloring band I can't identify above Bob Rodgers |
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If you blow that Schofield MC up, it looks more like the violet of the Red Sox than the lavender of the Braves, IMO
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5. Haven't seen that one. 6. You're right, I missed that one. 12. Definitely a Phillie/Indian. 18. Haven't seen that one. 20. I think it's safe to say that Yankee/Dodger is Richardson. |
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I'm pretty sure that is Stigman above Bailey because that color band has irregularities that seem to match Stigman but I don't know if I can call it.
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1966 series 6
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That Stigman card has a lot going on. Looks like a Red Sox or Pirate is to his right.
Here are Wynn and Banks miscuts. Attachment 614971 Attachment 614972 |
1966 series 6
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1966 series 6
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Found this miscut Buchek (454). The dot at the top appears to match the recurring dot Cliff mentioned that is on the Phillies TC (463).
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Here's the only Azcue MC I was tracking - looks like a rookie stars card above him?
Are we feeling sure enough of the Phillies over Buchek to use it to help construct the columns? I don't see the Stigman color line fingerprint over the Bailey - what should I look for? I looked again at the Schofield MC and I think it could easily be either the RS or Braves rookies, so on my sheet I took away Schofield being over either (have him listed elsewhere as over one or the other). Separating this out leaves us with a column with Gibbon, Braves Rookies and GOrdy Coleman and another with only Schofield and Hannan. I think it is Barber over Roznovsky, so that gives us a baby column with Roznovsky, Barber and Kline. |
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The Bennett miscut with the trademark of the adjacent card near the edge of the pink border could be either 501, O'Donoghue, or 487, Ferrara. Both of those cards are 4x, and both have the trademark in the approximate correct location.
When I adjust the images using my crude abilities, it looks to me as if Ferrara is a better match, but I'm not ready to conclusively state that. |
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I ran across this miscut last night that I didn't know I had because I listed it as a 7 Series rather than a 6 Series, it shows #511 Giants Rookie Stars at the top of a Slit which I believe puts the card at the end of the 4x Aaron row. I am puzzled why this card and Camilo Carreon have lower than normal 4x quantities on eBay but as of now all of the evidence has them at the end of 4x rows.
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Things change quickly, so to sum up, here are the columns, full and partial:
LE Aaron Nuxhall Fox Moeller Skinner Gonzalez Cubs Rookies RE: Hamilton 6th Checklist 7th Checklist Wood Giants Rookies Carreon Edwards Oliva Simmons Ellsworth Howard Roznovsky Kline Barber Buford Latman Azcue Gibbon Braves Rookies Coleman Radatz Rollins Yankees Rookies Bressoud Blefary Klippstein Bunker Lee Hannan Schofield Jimenez O'Dohoghue Richardson Rodgers Cannizzaro Belinsky Additionally, we have these side-by-sides: Jimenez/Phillies Team Klippstein/McAuliffe Green/Linz Bennett/Ferrara These cards are on the top of one slit: Aaron Lolich Wynn GOnzalez Giants Rookies We also have an Aaron on the bottom row Plus, about a couple dozen or more indeterminates that may prove useful as we get closer and start a process of elimination. |
This is one of the tentative slits that Kevin and I came up with the LE (header) cards and the RE cards that are on the same row. The other slit has the Aaron row at the top but we need more information to complete it.
1. Gonzalez - Carreon 2. Nuxhall - S Hamilton 3. Fox - Checklist 6 4. Skinner - Wood 5. Aaron - Giants Rookie Stars 6. Moeller - Checklist 7 7. Cubs Rookie Stars - Edwards 8. Gonzalez - Carreon 9. Nuxhall - S Hamilton 10. Fox - Checklist 6 11. Skinner - Wood 12. Aaron - Giants Rookie Stars |
1966 series 6, semi-highs
We also have the possible vertical pairs of Wynn-Ferrara and Phillies team- Buchek, unless you feel it's too early to definitively call those.
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My bad - I had recorded the Phillies over Buchek on my spread sheet, but forgot to include it here. So that's 2 complete columns and 13 pieces of others that will somehow come together to form the remaining 9.
IMHO the Wynn Ferrara match seems too tentative at this point. |
I think the only two possible cards that it could be (Under Wynn) are Podres or Ferrara. The other Yanks/Dodgers have been eliminated (Moeller is in Col 1), Yanks RS doesn't match, Richardson is over Lee, Hamilton is in C11, and Friend has the strange sky (photoshopped?).
Interestingly, I also show Richardson has a red banner above him. Quote:
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Yes, you are correct. I have card 462 under Richardson, which is Rodgers.
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Agreed - Ferrara is under Wynn. Since neither Wynn nor Ferrara have previously be identified in any other over/under pairs, this now gives us 14 column fragments (setting aside the LE and RE) out of which 9 will eventual emerge, once we get some more miscuts.
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Thanks for all the work on the tough 6th slit guys!Awesome .
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Bobby Bragan is above Sam McDowell, I'm pretty sure Bragan is a 4x and McDowell is a 3x. I thought it was a Rookie Stars card at first but realized it's a regular player card and McDowell has a facade in the upper right corner.
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Cool! Neither Bragan nor McDowell had popped up before, so now we have a total of 15 partial columns that need to eventually be reduced to the 9 we still need.
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Buchek at the bottom of one of the slits...
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This thread has hit the proverbial wall, Jose Cardenal has a Rookie Stars card to his right on a 3x row.
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From a previous miscut it was known that a Pirate-Red Sox player was above Ken Johnson but not which one, a more severe miscut shows that it is Dennis Bennett, two unique flaws in the cartoon border line on Bennett match up perfectly with the card on the miscut. We should have this baby wrapped up by 2044.
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Which is better progress than we're making on 65 series 6 or 58 series 1 and 6. LOL
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With Bennett over Johnson, this gives us 16 partial columns from which eventually only 9 full columns can emerge (we have the LE and RE columns complete).
I swear every time I search daily uploads on eBay of "1966 Topps" I will find at least 1 miscut where you can ID an adjacent card, but NEVER of this 6th series - they must have put their top crew on that shift. Those cards for which we still have absolutely no matches (making them high value targets) are, according to my records: Pirates Rookies McDaniel Covington Podres Stuart Face McCool Stanky Banks A's Team Hargan Cardenal Hatton Wilhelm Stigman Woodeshick Friend Wyatt Lolich Bearnarth |
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So, I think these images confirm that Hoyt Wilhelm is at the top of one of the slits - agree?
Do we think the Stanky image gives enough basis to declare him at the bottom of one? |
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Uh-oh.
The left hand column was previously determined to have been: Aaron Nuxhall Fox Cubs Rookies Gonzalez Skinner Moeller Does this image of Wyatt mean we need to reconsider?? |
I am very confident that we have all of the correct LE (header) cards, that Wyatt must have been cut at the maximum right on top of the line. It also appears that both slits of the 1966 6th Series has a 4x row at the top of each sheet and a 4x row at the bottom of each sheet.
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The more I look at it, it appears Wyatt may be trimmed along the right border.
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Found a Lolich image on eBay placing his row at the bottom of a slit. There is an image of a Lolich on this thread which places his row on the top of a slit as well.
Also, there is this image that is on eBay - I asked the seller to post a scan of the reverse. We'll see. |
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We need more of these, John O'Donoghue (I believe) is to the left of Jerry Buchek. It is a Phillie or an Indian, and O'Donoghue is the only one that matches. What looks like blue on the edge must be chipping.
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Has to be O'Donoghue - the placement of the TM line on the reverse cinches it.
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Here is the back of that miscut Mickey Lolich, I'm pretty certain it is Buck Rodgers above him but I can't confirm it. I don't think it is either of the pitchers Bob Lee or Ken Johnson, the bottom part of the p of pitcher would be showing on the front of the card, and I don't think it is Jose Cardenal because the black border line of his cartoon has a couple of unique flaws that aren't present on the Lolich miscut.
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It's Rodgers. On the Cardenal, the cartoon loop doesn't extend past the orange border as it does on this card. The only other possibilities (setting aside Bragan for obvious reasons) would be pitchers Johnson and Lee, both of which as you say would show a trace of the 'p', and Cannizzaro. It can't be the latter because the black stat lines run to the edge of the orange field, which also obviously doesn't match. So, you're correct - it has to be Rodgers.
Since we already had a mini column with Rodgers and Richardson, it now has Lolich as well. Two matches from the 6th of '66 in one day - who would have thunk it? |
1966 Topps series 6
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Jim Hannan at the bottom of a slit.
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Skinner is under Fox - Fox is the only other yellow card on the left edge...
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1966 Topps series 6
Yes, Fox and Skinner are both leading edge cards and Fox is over Skinner
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Ken Johnson is over Manny Jimenez. This creates a partial column of Johnson, Jimenez, Bennett and O'Donoghue.
In our quest to ID the remaining 9 columns, we are down to 15 partials. 2 have 4 known cards, 5 have 3 and the remainder have 2. |
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I had never seen any pop counts on cards from the 6th series, so I did a quick eBay count and this is what I came up with:
Edwards 41 Skinner 49 McDowell 52 Coleman 55 Wood 57 Blefary 58 Bunker 61 Fox 62 Howard 62 Cardenal 63 A's T. 64 Bearnarth 65 Bressoud 65 Richardson 67 Checklist 7 69 Moeller 72 Cubs R. 72 Bailey 72 Covington 72 Giants R. 74 Carreon 77 Roznovzky 78 Phillies T. 81 Buford 81 Friend 81 Oliva 84 Schofield 84 Woodeshick 85 Podres 91 Jimenez 96 Braves R. 96 Red Sox R. 98 Hargan 98 Yankees R. 103 Ellsworth 109 McDaniel 113 Hatton 117 Gibbon 119 Face 119 K. Johnson119 Bragan 119 John 119 Banks 119 Hamilton 119 Lolich 123 Nuxhall 125 Cannizzaro127 Wyatt 127 Kline 128 Stuart 129 Pirates R. 133 Lee 137 Gonzalez 138 Latman 144 Rodgers 153 Wynn 176 Simmons 180 Aaron 182 Radatz 183 Ferrara 192 McAuliffe 210 Green 210 Buchek 211 Rollins 212 Barber 222 Linz 222 Klippstein 228 Checklist 6 232 Stanky 240 McCool 242 Azcue 245 Wilhelm 250 Belinksy 257 Bennett 259 O'Donoghue 277 Stigman 302 Hannan 356 Of the leading cards in each row, Aaron, Nuxhall and Gonzalez seem to clearly be the 4x rows, with Fox, Moeller, Skinner and Cubs Rookies being the 3x rows. Not that any of this helps move us along at this point. In my 1966 Topps set post, you mentioned possibly having the slit layout for the unknown 5th series slit? I agree that Reed and the Angels Rookies are definitely 2 of the 3 4x rows, but my quick eBay count suggests either Jones or Bunning, not Monbo, as the other 4x. |
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This popped up again - can someone remind me why we think the card above Johnson here is Bennett as opposed to Lenny Green? Taking a look at the orange fields on the backs of both Bennett and Green makes me think Green might be the better candidate.
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After taking a quick look at eBay quantities I was surprised to see that Ken Johnson is well into 3x numbers, so a current column of
D Bennett O'Donoghue K Johnson Jimenez Rollins Radatz is plausible. I don't know why I had it in my mind that Ken Johnson is locked in as a 4x, and the current eBay quantities of Rollins and Radatz are both in the range where they could be 3x or 4x. Bennett and O'Donoghue are the only two guaranteed 4x cards in that column. |
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Saw this today on eBay - we know Aaron is in the left side column with Fox, Moeller, Nuxhall, Cubs Rookies, Gonzalez and Skinner. And, we know that on at least one of the slits, Aaron appears over Moeller.
What card is beneath Aaron here? The color seems to be purple, but Aaron is the only purple card in the column. The back suggests either Moeller or Skinner I think based upon what appears to be the top corner of the orange section on the adjacent card. Obviously, the card beneath Aaron here is having issues with the color. Any thoughts? |
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Moeller over the Cubs Rookies
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Belinsky over Stigman?
From the front, it looks clearly like Stigman, but on the back the orange section of the adjacent card extends slightly lower than Belinsky's, which Stigman's seems not to. Thoughts? |
1966 belinsky MC
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Moeller_Cubs RS 1966
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Thought I'd bring this back to the top since I don't think there was ever any discussion on it -
These two Aaron miscuts SEEM to show him sitting atop an orangish card and over a purplish/navy card. No other cards in the "known"(?) left edge column (i.e. Nuxhall, Fox, Moeller, Skinner, Cubs Rookies, Gonzalez) would fit. I've gone back and it SEEMS like the left edge cards were arrived at soundly. Thoughts? Is there any way one of these Aarons could be over another Aaron? |
1966 Topps series 6
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I thought that might be a simple color shift from Moeller, but ??? Attachment 648382 |
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I hate headshot cards, but the 1966 Topps Aaron is an extreme exception. Frickin' love the look of that card with the knowing smile and confidence. Awesome!!! |
2 in one day!
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Still nothing horizontally, but...Wally Bunker is under Mickey Lolich (front images shows yellow bar) and John Wyatt is above Curt Blefary.
Two columns being constructed this way: Blefary Klippstein Wyatt Lolich Bunker Lee Richardson Rodgers |
1966 series 6
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Since you mentioned Lolich and Blefary
Attachment 649726 Attachment 649727 Attachment 649728 Attachment 649729 |
1966 Topps series 6
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I also think Cannizarro & Belinsky are in the Wyatt column
Attachment 649732 Attachment 649733 Attachment 649734 |
This gives us another 5 card partial column - Belinsky, Wyatt, Cannizzaro, Klippstein, Blefary.
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Lindy McDaniel is to the right of George Banks on a 3x row. Every 1966 McDaniel has the stray print dot that matches the one on the miscut Banks. A seller on eBay has a handful of 1966 6th Series miscuts like this one but I don't know if I will be able to figure anymore out, this is the most obvious one.
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Cliff - I gotta hand it to you for ID'ing McDaniel - I found that Nuxhall has an almost identical ink tag, but it is too far to the right.
What seller is it with the miscuts? I found a tell-tale tag on Terry Fox as well. |
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Radatz has a Twin or a Red to his right, since Radatz is a 4x that eliminates Oliva, Coleman, and Edwards because they are 3x. Nuxhall is a header card so he is eliminated. That leaves McCool, Klippstein, and Rollins. McCool can be eliminated because the top of his box has a unique flaw, plus I think he is to the right of Ellsworth anyway. Rollins is eliminated because there is another Radatz miscut that has Radatz above Rollins. That leaves Klippstein. I would believe it is Klippstein anyway because the black ink is thick all the way through on the Radatz miscut, Klippstein is one of the few players that doesn't have a cartoon because of his long career. So that makes a three card run of Radatz-Klippstein-McAuliffe on a 4x row.
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This is MADDENING! So close yet so far! How does one guy come across so many miscuts like this when they're already so rare?
There are one or two I might take a crack at. There's a couple (like Howard) that look as if they could be right edge cards....but we have all of those...sooo..... |
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The Red Sox Rookies card is to the right of Gordy Coleman - note the small bump in the black section between "Rookie" and "Stars". It is consisted with all the samples I have seen, and I reviewed my set and no other rookie stars, Team cards or long-serving players have anything similar.
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