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BTW, it should be remembered that the great Jackie Robinson, who served in the military during a time of World War, also protested the flag:
In his 1972 autobiography, I Never Had It Made, Jackie Robinson -- who broke baseball’s color line in 1947 -- wrote, "As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world." |
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Got it. |
[QUOTE=nolemmings;1706298]So his military service should be discounted because he was drafted instead of enlisted, and he had a right to protest because he could prove, in a manner satisfactory to you and/or others, that he was an actual victim of oppression.
I really feel sorry for these poor oppressed football players. Maybe we should set a fund to help them through their oppression |
[QUOTE=cammb;1706309]
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Did Jackie ever get down on all fours and raise his leg pretending to piss like a dog in celebration?
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Dude, what are you on? |
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People didn't really have the choice to serve or not to serve back then. When called upon, you served. Additionally, because he was a person of color, he probably served in a lesser position. Do you really think he wanted to serve a country that truly oppressed him? No. But he did, and for that, I thank him dearly. The second part of your comment was along the lines of what I am saying, which is he did have good reason to protest the country. He had to use different bathrooms, different drinking fountains, stay in different hotels or crappier hotel rooms. He was heckled by all sorts of fans, going through emotional Hell day in and day out. If he was assaulted, he couldn't fight back, because the story would become that he attacked someone else and the white person was in self-defense mode. Compare that to today, when you have these athletes (many of them black) assaulting others and either having the charges dropped, or getting off with a slap on the wrist. |
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http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.3518225 |
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[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;1706326]
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Do people of color face discrimination from law enforcement? If so, how can we stop this discrimination?
Show concern for those two questions and the protests stop (edit- maybe not, the unity against Trump might continue to inspire). But we'd rather argue over flags, anthems, and protesting at work. Whatever keeps us from the real issue. If there is data that shows discrimination, but then no collective will to fix it, what might that say? https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016...ce-racial-bias |
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http://video.foxnews.com/v/559303622...#sp=show-clips |
So you carefully read the 15+ citations and then had time to respond with a single link all within 8 minutes of my post?
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Again, that's the one common denominator that all the shootings have in common - FTC. Edited to add: For some reason, over the last few years, young black males have taken it upon themselves to decide they don't have to follow an officer's command. |
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[QUOTE=nolemmings;1706371]
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The ignorance is on your part. And your suspicions are that I am a racist? People like you like to throw that word around when you have no answers.[/QUOTE]
Can you edit the quote? It makes it appear that Peter Spaeth said it when it was actually nolemmings. ETA, now it's doing it to me unless it's just my computer. |
[QUOTE=cammb;1706404]
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There will be no firings for kneeling at the National Anthem. There could be no firings absent formal action taken through the CBA, which the owners would lose. Following along so far? Whether the players are themselves oppressed is irrelevant. I'm a 58 year-old white guy who never served in the military. Do I have no right to join those who have been oppressed and protest with them at what I believe to be injustice? Or do I have to pass some exam satisfactory to you that I have such a right? Who are you to tell me what causes I may protest and those I cannot? And if I'm allowed to join a protest, where do you draw the line at who else can and cannot? There are white players kneeling in these protests. Do they need to prove to you that and how they've been mistreated? Is there a Jackie Robinson test? (Apparently he earned the right to not salute the flag or stand for the anthem.) Don't worry, it was a rhetorical question--the Answer is no. |
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1) Which data (as David stated) you choose to believe. 2) If you believe the "victims" of these law enforcement situations (Michael Brown, Travyon Martin, etc.) are truly innocent or not. |
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For example if the officer says "show me your hands" or "on the ground" and the suspect reaches inside his pants or jacket or elsewhere, does the officer have the right to shoot? |
[QUOTE=nolemmings;1706371]
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Interesting very recent piece.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...a-actually-say In reality, a randomly selected black man is overwhelmingly unlikely to be victim of police violence — and though white men experience such violence even less often, the disparity is consistent with the racial gap in violent crime, suggesting that the role of racial bias is small. The media’s acceptance of the false narrative poisons the relations between law enforcement and black communities throughout the country and results in violent protests that destroy property and sometimes even claim lives. Perhaps even more importantly, the narrative distracts from far more serious problems that black Americans face. Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...a-actually-say But even if this is right about police violence, I think it's unrealistic to say racism has been eradicated from America. And I see nothing wrong with peaceful protests, even if ultimately token, to remind us we still need to improve. |
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I think Leon needs to lock this thread up. This is supposed to be the Watercooler all sports talk forum, and so far nobody is discussing sports.
When I first joined this forum, one of the first things that caught my attention was the following: Please no politics or religion. This was obviously put there for a reason. These are very sensitive subjects and by discussing them people go absolutely batsh*t crazy and nothing gets solved in the end. I'm also surprised how some of you spent the whole weekend just fighting over this. What kind of weekend is that supposed to be? Now there are still a few hours to go until Monday arrives, so turn off your damn computer (or tablet or cell or whatever) and do something else! |
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[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;1706501]Interesting very recent piece.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...a-actually-say Thanks for the links. I look forward to reading them. |
[QUOTE=Dewey;1706512]
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https://law.yale.edu/system/files/ar...eo16_fryer.pdf |
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Athletes are using the sports stage to make a political statement and send a political message. If they want to try and bring awareness to something they feel is an issue in this country, shouldn't the issue at hand be discussed in detail to see #1 if there actually is an issue and #2 how we as Americans can improve on that issue? Our society loves to bury their hand in the sand as soon as politics and other difficult points of conversation are brought up. Whether or not this is the right forum for that discussion is up to Leon (the line is a dot to you), but it's a matter that was brought up through the platform of sports. |
I am curious as to how the people who are against protests feel about this particular issue:
http://nypost.com/2017/09/28/louisia...during-anthem/ In Louisiana you have public high schools, supported by public funds, telling students they will face discipline for protesting. However, Tinker vs Des Moines has already set the legal precedent that "Students don't shed their constitutional rights at the school house gates." A leading issue for debate here has been the "not at work" perspective. How do you feel about public schools with policies that are at odds with the Supreme Court? |
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http://abc13.com/sports/football-pla...-knee/2473284/ |
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With it being an extracurricular activity, that changes things, taking away the prior Supreme Court ruling similarities/comparisons. |
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That's not correct. The Supreme Court ruling applies to public schools and public school programs. The Christian academy is exempt because it is not a public school and does not receive public school funds. A Christian Academy would, for example, not need to comply with Title IX, a public school does.
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So not a lesser position, despite the entire military being segregated at the time. The rest of his military career was a complete mess because of racism though. Steve B |
I don't really have a problem with "a" thread about this stuff in the water cooler section. It is sports related. And yeah, this is the reason we don't generally allow politics etc..... though I am not sure this is politics? I will reiterate my own position. Every player has a right to protest.
And for me, every team owner can deal with it the way they see fit. From what it looks like to me most of them are just going with the flow (of money coming in, so as not to disrupt their coffers). IF it were my team they wouldn't be disrespecting the National Anthem by kneeling or putting some crazy arm sign in the air towards the Flag. As mentioned, there is a chance they can't be fired but they can certainly be benched, if not fired. I especifically liked the interview I saw with the Crosby TX football coach at the private school and the actions he took. To each their own, I am not a Football fan, haven't been one and this makes me not even want to watch highlights :). Screw the NFL.... . |
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Sports programs are publicly funded they are not afforded anymore rights than any other public school program in school or after school. The law is clear. You cannot punish or otherwise dissuade a student in a public school from participating in any form of non-violent or silent protest on school grounds.
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Where's the law that says they coach has to play them? |
What do you disagree with? You didn't identify the difference between Louisiana public schools and a private Christian academy in Texas. If you disagree with the Supreme Court, well, I have bad news for you....
Title IX applies to sports programs, which you say are "extracurricular activities" that aren't subject to Supreme Court rulings. If that is so, then how do you explain the fact that public schools are required to comply with Title IX, which is a Supreme Court ruling? It applies to sport unequivocally. Lastly, you did not even read the article I posted nor did you digest what it says. You immediately pointed to another article that had no bearing and no relevance to what I posted. |
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