Not much I can add that hasn't already been said, other than to say this whole thing is deplorable. And I don't even want to take sides.

But a short piece of advice to Jamie: never, ever assume you are going to win something at auction before the auction ends. What if a serious T206 back collector was looking for a Uzit Jennings, or a Uzit Seymour, for the last ten years? And he saw this as his one and only chance to get one. You would have been dead in the water. Repeat: never, ever assume you know what an auction lot will go for, and furthermore, don't sell anything you don't own. Whatever your intentions, that is very bad business.

The rest of this argument is pretty much "he said, she said" kind of stuff so I will stay out of it. Thank you.

Uzits
 

This is kind off point, but I am curious as to why Heritage is selling 2 Uzits in 1 lot. Considering the rarity and the fact that there are so many people interested in Uzits, wouldn't the consigner make more $ if these were sold individually? Personally, I might consider placing a healthy bid on 1 Uzit for my personal collection, but I don't really need or want 2.

Rick

Only thing I can think of reading through all of this is Jaime didn't want to disclose the location of the card and auction for fear of weakening his buying position - now the entire board knows where it is, what it is and when it ends. Heritage and the seller of this lot couldn't have asked for better promotion!

no doubt Ed....my brother collects rare backs and hadn't even looked at the Heritage auction until I told him last night ! This "deal" being discussed sounds shady at the least. Why should board members be allowed to sell cards they don't even own ?? I think something should be done so this behavior doesn't continue on the BST area.

Perfect thread for Easter Sunday. :eek:

As soon as I saw that BST listing the first thing I thought was that
he didn't have the card. That's why he was being so vague and it had
no scans which he usually posts.

I decided a while back that I would not be doing any deals with Blunder after
he stole my entire EBay listing of photo, set-up and lengthy description after I
sold him an item. To some it may seem like no big deal but it just rubbed me
the wrong way and showed no respect, especially since he knew I was a board
member. I blocked him from my auctions after that. I just don't care for the
way he goes about things.

The part that concerns me:
 

"What if by some small percentage this auction went up to a rediculious amount? More then I was willing to pay..... Then I would have to appoligize because my deal fell through.. and look to make it up to him in a future deal..."

I would never advertise something I didn't own, I realize others may feel differently. The even bigger issue for me is, I just cannot understand the quote above. It appears Blunder was not going to follow through on the deal if it got too pricey. That is wrong, this is clearly a willingness to break your word

Frank,

I "stole" a picture... of what.. a card that I owned at the time? .... after I buy a card i always save a pic from the seller... dont you? Its a pic of my card. I love how people are trying to ruin my reputation. after years and years of collecting I have never had 1 person where money was exchanged say 1 bad thing about me.

Im sorry to have wasted everyones time. This is rediculious that I am put on blast in such a way. Really?? a 12-15 page thread on this?? just rediculious.. I hope that auction ends at $10,000. I want no part of it now.

I told Chicago I didnt own the card .. not in our very first dialog.. so for that Im sorry... how many dam sorrys do I have to give.. and I didnt let him wait the 2-3 weeks thinking I owned the card. Thus the start of this thread. If my intentions were to lock up his money thinking I owned the card.. I would have never said anything to him.. and he would have not started this ranting and raving thread.

JP... I asked you about the 1400 BEFORE I had an agreement with Chicago... can you comprehend that....Im tired of you blabing your mouth that I wasnt going to come through fro Chicago... who are you to speak of my intentions?? I recall a thread about you being shady with deals not too long ago.... Chicago offered 1300 .. I didnt say yes at first...I wanted to see if anyone else wanted to go higher... we had no agreement then... but then he emailed me that he wanted an answer or he was out... which was after any talks with you. Thats when I said ok.. Is that NOT how it happened Chicago?


The 2 cards are very different in value. a HOFer and a commoner. by looking for an auction buddy, I would have tryed to agree upon a price with the other buyer for the jennings. One problem. I was not sure of the market value for the jenninngs. I had an idea but thought posting on the bst would get people to make offers and then I could have an agreement with the highest one realizing a more accurate market value for the jennings uzit.... so one last time thge way i went about finding market value and a partner was wrong. so I am sorry. Chicago now if you want your jennings you can spend 2k+ because thats what it is goinng to end at.

Im not looking at this page once more on easter.. going to spend time with my family... hopefully you are doing the same and not reading this crap... maybe by tomorrow this can be a 20 page thread on a deal where no money was exchanged and one "member" who could start a 20 page thread blasting anyone.

Chicago= Mad drama... deal with him if you like that... me, I get enough of that from my GF. so Im good on that front.

And your spelling sucks too.

It's just bad timing for you Jamie...
 

Someone had to come off the bench and fill in for Bruce now that he's in the penalty box for 30 days! It's what we call a Bad Beat in the casino business.

Jamie...I don't know you...other than that you put together a t206 set in record time...then sold it...and are now putting together a t206 backs collection...but your attempted sale was unethical and just wrong...and the way you're handling this is pretty poor. If you were to admit that what you did was wrong...and apologize...this would go away...but the way you're acting...this will not soon go away...it'll only get worse. Happy holidays to everyone!

I don't know why these are difficult concepts to master
 

There is a big difference between preselling a card that is part of a deal you have in place and preselling a card that you are trying to win in an auction. In the former situation you have an actual property right to sell (a contract in place for the item but possession hasn't passed yet) while in the latter you have nothing legally yours to sell. Former is OK; happens all the time in many aspects of commerce. I've done it myself. Latter isn't ever OK. What I read sounded like the seller was trying to sell off a piece of a deal in place, not a bidder hoping to win an auction with a partner.

Frank, Perhaps stealing your item description is a legit gripe. But c'mon It's petty to be upset that a buyer takes the scan of his purchase. I do it all the time and never thought the seller would get his BVDs all bunched up.

Incidentally, if anyone wants scans of my beaters, have at it.

To get back on track. Both guys are knuckleheads of varying degrees. Great hobby ehh?

Jamie, you're just making it worse by not actually apologizing. And what the hell is this?

"One problem. I was not sure of the market value for the jenninngs. I had an idea but thought posting on the bst would get people to make offers and then I could have an agreement with the highest one realizing a more accurate market value for the jennings uzit...."

Your bst ad said you were selling a card for $1000. Now it appears you were running a secret auction for a card you never owned....way worse than selling a card you don't own. Instead of lashing out at everyone, just admit that you purposely deceived six ways to (Easter) Sunday.

My 3 cents:

Bottom line: It should be common sense never to list an item on the B/S/T that you do not own. There isn't any excuse or explanation that will make what was done ok.

Whatever the intention was should have been made crystal clear from the initial post.

The fact that you are not apologizing without making all kinds of other statements/excuses demean the apology, and doesn't help your cause.

As far as Chicago, maybe the way he goes about things sometimes is controversial and a total turn off, however he has every right to be pissed as well as everyone else that values the B/S/T.

Rob

Rediculious!!:eek:

David, you're seplling is apawling!!!

i want the last 10 minutes of my life back after reading this.
but funny chicago was so concerned as he said many times about his 1300 being "tied up" but said later that losing 300 was no big deal because its just like a bad blackjack 20 minute run. just think that you went on a bad run for a little over an hour and having it tied up doesnt seem like such a big deal, right?

Jeff,

That's uncalled for and "rediculious!"

nail on head
 

Rob- your post put it fairly succinctly in my mind. There is no way someone should be (trying) to sell something, or take offers, on something they don't own and don't even know if they WILL own. Saying you will apologize if you don't win it, and can't come through with your end of a deal, is total asshattedness (I just made that derivative up, leave me alone :)) . It is NOT OK to do what Jamie Blunder did on the BST. What he should have done, and that every other board member does, is look for an auction partner for that lot. Without knowing an ending price all you have to do is give a percentage for each card in the lot. Say 65% for HOF and 35% for common, or whatever. I have done it and still do it. To not communicate that you don't own it is fraudulent in my book. The other mods and I will discuss it. It's not like anyone will go to jail or anything but I can see some time away from the BST, or the board, or both, as being possibilities. This was NOT acceptable behavior on our board.

One last thing...I am not sure when the situation about how much anyone pays for a house came up but that kind of information should, and will, remain private UNLESS it is already posted on here (by the party buying the house) or posted on another public forum. Even if posted somewhere else it really shouldn't be posted here by other than the original person as it is their own information. Hope that makes sense. Please, no more of that, even if you are making a point you can just use generalities and probably be ok. Something like, and this is not what was said "Quit braggin' about how much you pay for a house" would be ok.....giving details, probably not.

The other mods and I want the BST to be as transparent and friendly AND ETHICAL as possible. How many times do we say the key to doing smooth transactions is to communicate and OVER-Communicate. There was intentional deception in this transaction, imo, and that won't be tolerated. best regards

I'll give you 2,000 for this Unix guy and I'm going to over bid all of youzit guys at that Auction. If there enough dopes to go on for 15 pages about a deal that almost was, I want to own that stuff, so you can buy it from me for triple on e-bay "buy uzits now". Thanks for the info.:D

Another example, Jim, of why you're all that's wrong with humanity.

You're just jealous that you didn't get promoted from "all that's wrong with the hobby."

Not true. We all have our place in life, and mine apparently is destroying the hobby. Though I think I could expedite the process if only I'd get involved in a B/S/T or eBay flare-up on a weekly basis. I need to work on that.

It is very difficult to tell this week which member of the Net54 community is ruining the hobby the most.

I vote Jim VB, but that's just me.

-Al

I used a Just So tobacco card to light a cigar the other night, so I'd like to think for that fleeting moment I was ruining the hobby the most.

You're not paying attention. Rob D., is ruining the hobby. I, am ruining all of humanity!

Both of us are too busy to spend time ruining a small message board community. (We are taking applications for henchmen, however!)

Hobby?
 

Wait, this is a hobby?

Rawn

SteveF/Ladder7 - is right. I should not have complained about the scan
being lifted. The rest of the listing I do think is wrong to just copy and paste
especially when I was selling another of the identical item at that time.
It was not a card, it was a book - the description was 100+ words and I
still maintain it was a disrespectful move.

one more comment
 

I feel the need to add another comment :rolleyes:. I don't believe Jamie was out to scam anyone. It was more of a deceit by omission, from what has been shown. regards

Rob D and Jim VB are the weapons of mass destruction in both our hobby and all of humanity. Me? I'm just an honest, hard-working guy that gets taken advantage of by all of you wheeler-dealer types.

Apparently you're expanding your collection to include thank-you e-mails and PMs.

Only if it was a cheap cigar. If it was something really good, then Rob and JVB are still out front.

J

Now that I have had time to calm down and emotion is out of the way..
I will say I am sorry to Chicago for making him feel he was guarenteed the card.. unless in hand nothing is guarenteed and that is my error..

Just dont question my motives.. I am a man of my word... if I won the auction the card would have went to chicago at 1300..

if I want an auction buddy I should have posted on the main board.. lesson learned..


Jamie

Hi Al,
I agree.... But his real name is Donna Chang....

Be well Brian

PS I only read the last 2 pages....:)

Jamie - main board or BST - the issue wasn't the location of the post, but that you were selling a card that you didn't own; the lesson is when you're looking for an auction partner, just say so.

You also turned a "first $1000 gets it" into a vague free-for-all with higher offers accepted.

I see JP is a man that doesnt know how to accept an appoligy.. you must be one of those round and round we go guys...

"Compleetley REEDICULUS"

"I'm agassed"

Hey, anyone want to buy a Uzit? I know where I can find one (or two, or three...) that are being auctioned, right now!

Happy Easter to all!!!

matt I agree with your point.. so lesson is learned there as well...

JP anything else...? should I pay you restitution for all of your damages in this painful event? oh wait you had none.

Blunder ... I, myself ... am a wonderful liar ... But .....
 

*

But ..... Go on with your story. :)

Do you have a benefits package in place?

If an "appoligy" is some sort of weird exploratory surgery...you're right, I won't accept it.

How about apologizing to me and all of the others who were interested in buying the card you didn't have for $1000, that you broke your word with to accept more money? You make it seem like your only mistake was posting your "deal" in the BST, when in reality what you did was a lot worse.

not sure what you trying to say Joe.. that I am a liar??.. I dont even know who the hell you are .. your not invloved in this at all...and your calling me a liar?

I am done with this thread... and being publicly hung... for a small incident...

I would love to challenge someone to come forward with 1 bad experiance where money was exchanged and when I was involved on either the buying or selling side. When I take someones money, they get what they paid for, and they get my money for things that I buy from them, 100% of the time.

I made the 520 set without 1 complaint and sold it without 1 complaint. I have been buying/selling T206s for years without 1 complaint....my apology was already issued...

Jamie

JP
 

here is my 1 and ONLY email to you....

"No. I've got a lot of responses... I'm looking for someone that wants to buy this card because I have to buy it along with another card for sale which is the one I want. They are being sold as a pair. And I want to find someone interested in the uzit jennings so I only end up with the card I want and not paying for both. The high guy right now is at 1300. I will send picks if your still interested.
Jamie"


I was upfront with you from the second I spoke with you. this email was sent before I had an agreement with Chicago.. round and round we go.. You knew right from the start I didnt own the card.. so why are you playing victim?

Yes, Jamie, it appears Joe is calling you a liar. It's pretty easy for him to call it like he sees it. I also am calling you a liar. If you think the email you sent to me, that you just posted, is "upfront" then you're never going to get it. You lied by ommission. Those cards aren't "for sale". That makes it sound like you can just buy them from someone for a fixed price and you're done. You were deceptive by not mentioning it was in an auction. And no, I didn't know from the start you didn't actually have the card. But like everyone else, including two moderators who asked for proof and weren't answered, I suspected as much. Your email to me and everyone else shouldve mentioned the auction, and how winning the cards weren't guaranteed...

Hey Jamie
 

Hey Jamie
We don't need this to go on forever but JP is correct here. You still aren't seeing the point. Your email is not helping your cause. No one said you were "scamming" someone. What everyone has said is that you weren't being truthful and honest. It seems as though you still aren't accepting of that fact. A light, misdirected apology to make it all go away won't quite do the trick. I guess my main thing now is that you seem to be skirting the real issue with each post.

How can you say "I was upfront with you from the second I spoke with you."? Of course you said you had to buy it but you didn't say you would have to "win" it in auction first. IF you had said that this whole thread probably wouldn't have started as then you would have been truthful. I can't imagine asking for a buyer for a card, that I still have to win in auction, and then thinking if I don't win it I can just say I am sorry and will make it up in the future. That is all wrong, imho. best regards

BLUNDER doesn't get it, does he? ... Or .....
 

He doesn't want to get it!

Just came home from ham, german potato salad, pees (while not all the "riligeeous", had to celebrate the ressurection of Jesus and I read...this.

If you play the stock market, you look at this thread in a different way. You use monies and own companies that you don't own and own them in spec. Especially if you trade in options.

If his intent was an "iron-clad" guarantee that this card could be sold in X amount of days for X amount of dollars, then the person not owning the card was in fact gambling, in which if the price extended beyond what he had hoped for part of the duo and he bailed, he would be in the wrong for sure.

Saying "Sorry guy, I can't come through" in not an option if you guarantee something. So if you pay $5,000 for the lot, you HAVE to agree to sell it to this gent for the agreed upon price.

I'm not saying what he did was right, nor is the practice, but if better prepared, with more disclosure (you disclosed jack from what I read), it could have benefitted both parties and this could have been avoided. Oh well, Happy Easter!

DanC

Playing The Board To Get An Uzit At A Discount?
 

....Jamie's "point" is unless he takes someone's money and doesn't deliver a card then he is basically free to do whatever he wants by way of deception.

But the lack of monetary damages here is mostly beside the point. If he had taken the money without delivering the cards -- and what may have happened here is that he was going to take the money to help pay for the lot before he actually had the cards in hand -- that would have been criminal, of course. That would have been theft.

But what really happened here is he tried to play the board with a lack of information, to try to run up interest in an auction he wanted to participate in without actually disclosing the auction. He was actually hoping to save money on this.

I would want to know the maximum bid he was willing to make. Let's see, get someone to commit to $1,300 and then hopefully the auction only goes to $2,000, then I get an UZIT for $700. And if the auction goes to $2,100? No worries -- I don't have to be the highest bidder. I can just say, sorry Mate, didn't buy the card, don't send me any money.

My take is he was playing the board to try to get an UZIT at a discount. That's my take on it.

Jamie, you really should have known better...