Originally Posted by Balticfox (Post 2514240)

So if SGC is shut down, will SGC graded cards plummet in price?

:confused:

Originally Posted by CaramelMan (Post 2514258)

Plummet? Def no

There is too much value in SGC OJ for the value to “plummet”…

The majority of “old school” collectors of OJ (on this site) won’t care if SGC doesnt slab more cards…they will be content and trade their “old school” graded cards regardless of new inventory…going “defunct” does not negate the decades of expertise overnight..

Originally Posted by DeanH3 (Post 2514266)

Well said. I don't see why the value of SGC cards would decline. SGC would cease not because of nefarious reasons, but due to a business decision.

Originally Posted by DeanH3 (Post 2514266)

Well said. I don't see why the value of SGC cards would decline. SGC would cease not because of nefarious reasons, but due to a business decision.

Originally Posted by CaramelMan (Post 2514227)

As someone who collects all PSA SGC and Beckett in modern and pre-war, i can say it’s very clear which brand gets the premium on a sale…

If there was the same card in psa 10 sgc 10 (9.5) and Beckett 9.5,
The psa sells for considerably more …. PSA is the Cadillac when buyers are concerned and PSA clearly knows this…if SGC is kept, it will be the “second fiddle” in PSAs eyes with lesser fees but less value in the same grade as PSA …

This doesn’t pertain to Old Judge….SGC is the master of this era, but as soon as you get to the monster, PSA gets more dollars for the same grade in Sgc…

It’s not close in my Pujols Rookies 2001… a PSA 10 Pujols 2001 is worth its weight in gold and SGC and Beckett are FAR behind in sale values…Thus the difficulty in psa grading and crossover: they know its worth a lot more in their slab so they have to be TOUGH..

My opinion from a collector who does it all and deals with all…

And even if you “dislike” PSA very much for whatever reason, you can’t deny final sale values…

SGC experts should become the 19th century branch of psa…that’s it

Scott

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2514291)

Who is their competition now?

Originally Posted by raulus (Post 2514293)

beckett!!!

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2514283)

I think if SGC goes defunct, there will be a major movement to cross cards in their holders. Not everyone of course. And eventually, people will wonder if SGC cards that come on the market are those that would not cross, which could devalue them. I just don't see a long term robust market for a discontinued brand.

Originally Posted by perezfan (Post 2514290)

You DO realize that if PSA is left without a viable competitor, they will have absolutely no incentive to perform. Their wait times will get even longer, their prices will escalate even higher, their inconsistency will get even worse, and their dreadful customer service will become non-existent. I'd also bet that we'll see even more crumpled baggies instead of slabs that actually fit the card.

If a monopolistic company has no viable competition, there are no checks and balances to keep them honest. Not good for the hobby (errrr, business), and while it may be good for Collectors (the company), it would be a disaster for collectors of the human variety.

So this is not something that even the most diehard PSA Apologist should celebrate. Things would be worse for everyone.

Originally Posted by Snowman (Post 2514300)

Yes, this is precisely what would happen. SGC prices would decline at a rate proportional to the probability of them crossing over to PSA slabs in the same grade. As time goes on, that probability gets lower and lower. Unfortunately though, since PSA has moved to the goal posts ~2 full grades lower for most cards, that means almost nothing crosses over these days already. So something would have to change fast to keep their prices from plummeting rather quickly. It won't take long for every youtuber to realize that they went 1 for 15 on crossovers, and that's not an exaggeration.

Originally Posted by Snowman (Post 2514301)

We're already past that point though. The reason SGC, CGC, and now MBA are all growing quickly is precisely because of how incompetent PSA has become.

Originally Posted by Johnny630 (Post 2514333)

Does anyone even try to crossover to PSA anymore? I thought people cracked and rolled the dice if they wanted a chance at a equal or greater grade.

Originally Posted by bk400 (Post 2514334)

I'm long CGC. They have the heritage grading other things well for a long time; stable, deep pocketed ownership; and from my perspective, very competent on the technical side of grading.

Do they market themselves well, perhaps not. But if the goal is to buy a card and trust the grading, I think CGC is right there.

Originally Posted by bk400 (Post 2514334)

I'm long CGC. They have the heritage grading other things well for a long time; stable, deep pocketed ownership; and from my perspective, very competent on the technical side of grading.

Do they market themselves well, perhaps not. But if the goal is to buy a card and trust the grading, I think CGC is right there.

Originally Posted by bk400 (Post 2514334)

I'm long CGC. They have the heritage grading other things well for a long time; stable, deep pocketed ownership; and from my perspective, very competent on the technical side of grading.

Do they market themselves well, perhaps not. But if the goal is to buy a card and trust the grading, I think CGC is right there.

Originally Posted by Johnny630 (Post 2514479)

How many key vintage cards that look great for their conditions do we see graded in CSG Holders in the big guys Auctions? Like REA, Heritage, And Memory Lane…I can’t think of many. Once that starts happening I may take them seriously as being a viable option.

Originally Posted by parkplace33 (Post 2514484)

Agree. Outside of maybe one auction house, I haven't seen CSG cards in any of the major auctions.

I do see them at shows, but mainly on Pokemon and other TPG. A few vintage, but very rare.

Originally Posted by parkplace33 (Post 2514484)

Agree. Outside of maybe one auction house, I haven't seen CSG cards in any of the major auctions.

I do see them at shows, but mainly on Pokemon and other TPG. A few vintage, but very rare.

Originally Posted by parkplace33 (Post 2514484)

Agree. Outside of maybe one auction house, I haven't seen CSG cards in any of the major auctions.

I do see them at shows, but mainly on Pokemon and other TPG. A few vintage, but very rare.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5 (Post 2514640)

There was a time in the not-to-distant past when Beckett was the #1 overall grader, and PSA was #2. Thinks can change very quickly.

Originally Posted by jayshum (Post 2514648)

I don't buy many graded cards but I see plenty of them at shows, and I don't really remember ever seeing that many cards graded by Beckett compared to PSA. When was Beckett the #1 overall grader?

Originally Posted by GeoPoto (Post 2513501)

I will be surprised if PSA keeps SGC going indefinitely. Surely, they are working towards merging whatever management, administration, logistics, grading, and slabbing functions aren't already merged. That would be Aquisitions 101. The tipping point will arrive when the IT department is ready to add SGC-graded cards to the registry. Operating two businesses that do essentially the same thing can't make sense. SGC-style slabs may become an option to appease tuxedo aficionados, but grading standards, customer service, and anything else users care about will become one and the same, if they haven't already.

Originally Posted by sbfinley (Post 2514649)

I can't think of a time where they completely overtook PSA in marketshare, but I would say that from around 2011-2019 they were arguably the most popular for Ultra-Modern baseball cards. Specifically this was there era where Bowman Chrome was considered the key release and BGS 9.5/10 was the key grade.

Originally Posted by jayshum (Post 2514648)

I don't buy many graded cards but I see plenty of them at shows, and I don't really remember ever seeing that many cards graded by Beckett compared to PSA. When was Beckett the #1 overall grader?

Originally Posted by sbfinley (Post 2514649)

I can't think of a time where they completely overtook PSA in marketshare, but I would say that from around 2011-2019 they were arguably the most popular for Ultra-Modern baseball cards. Specifically this was there era where Bowman Chrome was considered the key release and BGS 9.5/10 was the key grade.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2514672)

I cannot think of a time when PSA was not number 1 and SGC was not number 2 in the grading space.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5 (Post 2514678)

This is correct. BGS almost universally outsold PSA in the 2010s.



SGC didn't become the #2 grader overall until the last couple of years. Maybe if you only look at pre-war, then sure, SGC has been #2 for about 20 years. That's because Beckett tried BVG and it flopped. But overall, when you include modern cards, SGC was never even close to BGS during the 2000s and 2010s. That includes both sale prices, and marketshare. It was post-covid when SGC finally overtook BGS in total cards graded per month.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2514698)

You can still observe this if you look at cards like Jeter and Trout RCs, lots of Beckett graded examples still in the marketplace. The subgrades were very popular for a while. No longer. I don't know what happened to them, whether it was just PSA's better marketing that overtook them, they had internal issues, or both.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5 (Post 2514678)

This is correct. BGS almost universally outsold PSA in the 2010s.



SGC didn't become the #2 grader overall until the last couple of years. Maybe if you only look at pre-war, then sure, SGC has been #2 for about 20 years. That's because Beckett tried BVG and it flopped. But overall, when you include modern cards, SGC was never even close to BGS during the 2000s and 2010s. That includes both sale prices, and marketshare. It was post-covid when SGC finally overtook BGS in total cards graded per month.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2514703)

Thanks for the explanation. I have never paid any attention to modern or ultramodern issues so I only noticed SGC and PSA slabbed cards and I avoided vintage Beckett graded material due to their grading sheet cut cards.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2514291)

Who is their competition now?

Originally Posted by CaramelMan (Post 2514939)

Simple answer : NASDAQ and its investors in CLCT

That is their focus with no “competitors in the market” …

Meaning they need to have a successful business model and divesting or closing units is part of being a Publicly Traded Company…

Scott

Ps: my inventions and fda devices are held by a NASDAQ company that I’m employed by as a SD so i feel the demands

Originally Posted by CaramelMan (Post 2514939)

Simple answer : NASDAQ and its investors in CLCT

That is their focus with no “competitors in the market” …

Meaning they need to have a successful business model and divesting or closing units is part of being a Publicly Traded Company…

Scott

Ps: my inventions and fda devices are held by a NASDAQ company that I’m employed by as a SD so i feel the demands

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5 (Post 2514951)

Yep, and closing a successful business would not be a good idea for the shareholders.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2514498)

There's no supply because there's no demand, and there's no demand because there's no supply.

Originally Posted by CaramelMan (Post 2515035)

Off Nasdaq listing does not mean there are no shareholders…

Being on NASDAQ is difficult and expensive…

Does it trade on pink sheets now?

Totally private i find it hard to believe… All the CLCT share holders still hold the stock on pink sheets most likely…meaning they still trade and need to have good business practices/model..

Originally Posted by CaramelMan (Post 2515035)

Off Nasdaq listing does not mean there are no shareholders…

Being on NASDAQ is difficult and expensive…

Does it trade on pink sheets now?

Totally private i find it hard to believe… All the CLCT share holders still hold the stock on pink sheets most likely…meaning they still trade and need to have good business practices/model..

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5 (Post 2515073)

What difference does it make if it's public or private? The same business principles apply. You don't kill a profitable business you own, private or public. Especially when that 2nd business is holding off the competition from gaining market traction.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2515083)

It isn't even a question of whether SGC is profitable. It's a question whether the overall enterprise would be more or less profitable with a single brand. And we have no idea without inside information about revenues, costs, projections, redundancies, etc. (which only Travis has LOL).

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5 (Post 2515110)

We might not have the specific numbers, but we can get a pretty good idea based on business and market knowledge. There is very little chance that SGC is not profitable, and there is very little chance that PSA would be more profitable with SGC gone and other companies getting some portion of SGC's market share, versus PSA and SGC both operating in the space. Sure, we are all speculating on the actual numbers. But I find it hard to defend the suggestion that Collectors would benefit in any way from SGC being gone.