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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>"Jazz Hands" has officially been relegated to second place.
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Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p><img src="http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n148/vajra1/337269484.jpg" alt="[linked image]">
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Posted By: <b>gotwins</b><p>Leon, don't know where you got your numbers, but CNN breaks it down as follows by race:<br><br>White (74% of voters) OBAMA 43% MCCAIN 55% <br>African-American (13% of voters) OBAMA 95% MCCAIN 4% <br>Latino (8% of voters) OBAMA 66% MCCAIN 32% <br>Asian (2% of voters) OBAMA 61% MCCAIN 35% <br>Other (3% of voters) OBAMA 65% MCCAIN 31% <br><br>So you can see Obama won all races except white, and convincingly at that. Kerry won over 80% of the black vote in 2004, and Kerry is pretty damn white. If you give Obama Kerry's numbers for black voters, he still wins. <br><br>
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br><br>< I'm taking Obama at his word when he says he wants to hit with tax increases people above such and such and redistribute it to the underprivilaged to help "boost" the economy.>> <br><br>"And he said this... when?"<br><br><br>David- your kidding right? Is this the first you've heard of a democrat wanting to tax the rich and give it back to the little guy? It's called redistribution and it was mentioned many times over during the campaign. <br><br><br><br><br>Todd-<br><br>I would imagine those numbers are a little skewed. My belief is Obama got almost all the minority vote, and got most of the white votes of those under 30 years of age. My sister-in-law voted for Obama...she is in her 20's, doesn't have a family yet and believes in "change" and "creative ideas". <br><br>
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I agree with Dave on this issue and it should never be about the color of skin....I do honestly believe that....but let me just put your numbers up (I got mine from George Stephenopolous (sp?) last night).....We can let these sink in a bit...<br><br><br>White (74% of voters) OBAMA 43% MCCAIN 55% <br>African-American (13% of voters) OBAMA 95% MCCAIN 4% <br><br>I think enough people are so upset at the economy that there was no way a Republican could win....and that is the way it is. <br><br><br>BTW, You proved my point....take care
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think it is time for people to stop calling Obama a socialist, because it is untrue. <br><br>Earlier this year my wife and I got a $1200 check from the IRS. I can't seem to recall doing anything to deserve that money. So I guess I am now on welfare and it is Bush who is the socialist.<br><br>And if my last statement sounds stupid, calling Obama a socialist is just as dumb. The name calling needs to stop.<br>
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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>OK. I'll throw a match into the tinderbox with a half-baked idea I've been kicking around the past week or so. <br><br>How about this statement: It is proper that people with higher incomes pay more taxes because they tend to use more of the services and benefits that taxes create.<br><br>People with higher incomes tend to:<br><br>Travel more. This means flying and the entire NTSB oversight, air traffic control, airport infrastructure that often has a meaningful federal component, all of it. Cruises, with port authorities and navigation information. And, of course, the National Weather Service and NOAA information systems that make sea and air travel possible on a commercial (as opposed to adventure activity) basis.<br><br>They own cars and use them - for travel and every other thing. The Fed highway system. The oversight on auto saftey, mileage and emissions. The fed highway safety system.<br><br>They tend to have much more access to health care than poor people. I know - someone will anecdotally bring up poor people getting "free health care" but the bottom line is that the people that have much freer access get much more benefit from medical research like NIH and CDC, from the hospital and doctor safety oversight apparatus, from the FDA and the Rx drug safety and eval programs.<br><br>They are much more likely to go to and send their children to colleges - often public universities that receive direct and indirect tax dollars. Sure poor people can go through this or that program. But there is simply no debating that many of the large public universities have student bodies that are not drawn largely from the "welfare class". It is from the middle class and higher.<br><br>They are voracious consumers - so here comes all of the consumer product safety regulations, the Customs Bureau, import controls, transportation and trucking oversight. Yes, poor people buy things. But they aren't outfitting a house and a cottage with plasma TV's and couches and appliances and everything else.<br><br>They invest - own stocks and the like. How much does the SEC cost to regulate this area, and how much of that benefit goes to someone that has to use food stamps for peanut butter.<br><br>And on the investment/savings note, the FDIC is no benefit at all to someone that doesn't have a nickel to their name and has never set foot in a bank.<br><br>But poor people use tax-provided benefits too, I know. There is Medicare, food stamps, public transportation, building safety and inspection systems geared to multi-unit housing. <br><br>But can we really say that 3% higher taxes on high income earners represents a total give-down to poor people.<br><br>Like everything else, I don't think it's that simple. No doubt people will have a lot of response to this and arguments as anecdotal as those I've just made. So no, I don't have numbers or data or facts or proof.<br><br>But I do think that there is some merit to the thinking that this is much more complicated than Taxpayer A handing cash dollars to Poor Person B to buy is bottle with.<br><br>Joann
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br><br>Barry-<br><br>Was that $1200 check you got not a tax credit on the money you earned and already had given the government?
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dave- it was given to me under the name of a stimulus package, or something to that effect.<br><br>So if Obama decides to implement some similar stimulus packages, why is that socialism?
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I got a note yesterday saying I am getting $900 back. I think that was a stupid plan regardless of the party affiliation. Stupid Stupid Stupid.....<br><br>You are right about what is going on right this moment vis a vis socialism. I am not for it. I am for a Democratic nation run under the Capitalism doctrine. That means those who work the hardest and are smartest will prosper and those who don't, won't, as much.......(I think that's how to say it?).....I am not for enabling those in the system to stay there....I am for teaching folks to fish instead of giving them one.
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Posted By: <b>John K</b><p> The GOP is wrong on (pretty much) all the issues: trickle down (doesn't work), global warming (it's real), the war (ask Dick Army), big oil (we should have hybrids all over the place), the environment (helicopter wolf hunting!), education (No Child's Behind is Left), deregulation (Greed is, after all, one of the Seven Deadly Sins), the politics of division (e.g., McCain/Palin/Rove).<br> One of the first things George Bush said when running was, "I'm a uniter, not a divider." Divide and conquer is how the GOP runs itself. <br> To you rich guys, you'll survive with a little bit less. You won't miss any meals or have to turn down the thermostat, and it might even make you feel good to see more Americans doing better.
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Posted By: <b>Matt Goebel</b><p>Still gives me goosebumps
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Posted By: <b>jdrum</b><p>JoAnn,<br><br><br><br>A lot of those items are taxed. The more voracious a consumer you are, the more sales tax you pay. The more gas you burn, the more gas tax you pay. And I for one, pay to send my daughter to college.<br><br><br><br>Is the argument: Person A uses the system better than Person B for personal gain, so Person A should pay more for the system?<br><br>I wonder how we all would like our goods and services priced on our ability to pay for them?<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Jeff<br><br>< br><br>
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Leon- Obama is an American and believes in capitalism. What free rides is he giving to whom?
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p><img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/-marhari-/MoreCowbell.jpg" alt="[linked image]">
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Posted By: <b>gotwins</b><p>I guess I don't understand your point then. 19 out of every 20 blacks voted for Obama. In 2004, about 17 out of every 20 blacks voted for Kerry. 17 out of 20 and Obama still wins. No way a Republican could win with those stacked numbers of black voters? Tell that to Kerry.<br><br>Jo Ann,I agree with much of what you say, and you say it well.
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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p><< It's called redistribution and it was mentioned many times over during the campaign.>><br><br>It was mentioned, alright.<br><br>By McCain and Palin. Not Obama.<br><br>Just where is he going to be handing money over to "the little guy."<br><br>Taxes need to be raised because we are fighting two wars, and the country is way past its eyeballs in debt.<br><br>(BTW, you can consider a tax cut for everybody to be "redistribution," too. Money would be taken from your children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, who will have to pay the National Debt, and be given to you. Sound good?)
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br><br>Barry-<br><br>I don't have a problem in the world if Obama wants to give a tax break or tax credit to EVERYONE. I don't believe that is at all socialism, it's just getting to keep a percentage more of your own money. That's a different ballgame than saying the "rich" should be hit hard with taxes and everyone else gets breaks. To me that is not the american way. The American way of capatilism wasn't built on the foundation that a 35 year old that started up his own computer internet security company and makes $450k a year should have to give an extra 3% to the guy that was a complete jack off in society, screwed around and dropped out of high school, has a few years of drugs and alcohol abuse under his belt and works 25 hours a week at some fast food joint doing dishes, never looking to better himself.
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Posted By: <b>shane leonard</b><p>I hope Texas separates itself from the US. We are self sufficient in every area and don't need the assistance from the government. A sad day for sure, especially for those who are self employed. Financially the US needs change, but I think this is going to be a cluster F. <br><br>Shane Leonard
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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>I couldn't agree more strongly!<br><br>(And take the rest of the Confederacy with you, while you're at it.)
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br><br>David-<br><br>Your right. Taxes should be raised to pay for this mess. But they should be raised across the board..not just this crap about the "rich". For one, that won't happen anyway...taxes will be raised right down through the middle economy, Obama just failed to mention that.
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Posted By: <b>packs</b><p>misunderstanding
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Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>i would also love to see Texas separate itself from the us...maybe become part of mexico. you guys could abandon the us dollar and implement the amero!
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>so you weren't proud to be an American yesterday? Wow................<br><br>
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I think a thread on politics at this time isn't a bad thing. BUT, you are not going to be able remain anonymous and be able to argue..Nothing personal...thanks much
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br>"(And take the rest of the Confederacy with you, while you're at it.)"<br><br><br><br>Oh that's wonderful David. And clearly shows how your educated enough to be voting. I'll agree though...as throughout history, the electoral votes have always went the way of the Democrats in the north and liberal California west and the Rublican convservative vote has always relied on the south and heartland where are "guns and religon" still mean something.
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Posted By: <b>jdrum</b><p>Everyone south of the Mason-Dixon line doesn't think that the National Anthem should be changed to Freebird! Most of us are hard working tax paying Americans like everyone else. <img src="/images/happy.gif" alt="happy.gif">
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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>Dave, how long has this country had a proportional income tax? Since income tax began.<br><br>Thw well-to-do have always been asked to contribute proportionately more. Now it's just a matter of fine-tuning those proportions. Sounds pretty American to me.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dave- hopefully that is not how the plan will work. I'm going to hope that the extra revenue generated by the tax increase won't go to the street corner wino so he can buy a couple of more bottles of Thunderbird.<br><br>Perhaps a better use of the money could be put towards more free day care centers so that mothers who work don't have to worry about their kids; or perhaps some mortgage relief to families about to go into foreclosure; or maybe somehow, some way making it a little easier for people to get health care.<br><br>I don't know if this is what will happen, but I would like to just suggest that there are worthwhile ways to use that extra tax revenue. Bush used our taxes to fight an unnecessary war, and I am going to go out on a limb and say Obama will find ways to use that money more wisely.<br><br>Nobody is for giving away free money to people who don't want to help themselves.
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br>Packs- whoever you are.<br><br>I'm confused as to why your confused. I didn't say everyone who wasn't rich dropped out of high school and was a loser. I also didn't say everyone who was rich was 35 year old and owned a internet securities company. Get your head out of the sand.
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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p><<Everyone south of the Mason-Dixon line doesn't think that the National Anthem should be changed to Freebird! Most of us are hard working tax paying Americans like everyone else. happy.gif>><br><br>I know. I was just answering an absurdity with an absurdity.<br><br>(Although I <i>have</i> always felt that NY and CA should secede.)
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Posted By: <b>James Todd</b><p> The Republican party is heavily Christian. Christian doctrine states that those who have more should give more. However, on the issue of tax increases for the rich, Republicans are against it. Doesn't that go against the Christian fundamentals much of the party is based on?
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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p><<Oh that's wonderful David. And clearly shows how your educated enough to be voting. I'll agree though...as throughout history, the electoral votes have always went the way of the Democrats in the north and liberal California west and the Rublican convservative vote has always relied on the south and heartland where are "guns and religon" still mean something.>><br><br><br><br>Now <i>that's</i> a paragraph written by a well-educated person!<br><br><br><br>Aside from the spelling and grammatical errors, you really should check your history concerning Southern votes. You can start by Googling "the solid South."
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Posted By: <b>jdrum</b><p>NOt advocating any position here but, isn't 25% of 3X more than 25% of X?
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>delineates that those making $250K should tithe 15% whereas those below tithe 10%. Pretty much advocates a 10% flat tithe...........
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Posted By: <b>James Todd</b><p>I'm not saying its a great plan or that I agree with it. I was just having fun with the guns and religion comment earlier. No offense to anyone.
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Posted By: <b>Matt Goebel</b><p>I usually don't like to get involved in the political threads, but I hate to have words put into my mouth. I said NOTHING about how I felt yesterday. I can say I'm proud of one of my kids for something they've achieved and it doesn't mean I wasn't proud of them before. <br><br>Policies aside - this was an historic event!
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p><img src="http://internetstinkslikebeer.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/cowbell.jpg" alt="[linked image]">
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Posted By: <b>Richard Dwyer</b><p>The truth about Proposition 8 is that Gay Marriage is wrong. Being a teacher, I was shocked when our own union gave the opposition $3 million dollars to defeat proposition 8. They told untruths to get the public to vote no. Supporters said children would be taught about Gay Marriage. (True statement, 3rd grade health)<br>Opposers said they wouldn't, and it was shameful to use children to say they would. Opposers said that gays were being discriminated against. That may be true, but I don't care about immoral individuals.<br><br>All the states were looking at California, and I'm proud our state shot down Gay Marriage. Yes, I was a little extreme about Bubba and his friends, but that's what would eventually happen if Gay Marriage was allowed. <br><br>I believe in the Bible, and it clearly states that Gay Marriage is wrong.
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>
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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p><<I believe in the Bible, and it clearly states that Gay Marriage is wrong. >><br><br>Then hold to your beliefs, and don't marry a man.<br><br>But the Constitution clearly states that there can be <i>no</i> official national religion. And our laws cannot be forced to conform to the Christian Bible. (Or the Koran, or the Bhagavad Gita, or... )
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Posted By: <b>Ken McMillan</b><p>I find it really stupid that the media is making such a big deal about Obama being black. So what!!!!! He is a human being and he sounds intelligent with some good ideas. He didn't play the race card and didn't need to. Let him do the job and forget about race.<br><br>Kmac
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Richard, <br><br>If you are a teacher, you are smart enough to know that the Bible was written 2000+ years ago as a collection of parables. It is NOT a scientific tome. Learn from the stories. Don't take them literally. <br><br>If you do, then the punishment for homosexuality must be the death penalty. <br><br>Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." <br><br><br>Working a card show on the Sabbath? Death!<br><br>Exodus 35:1-2 On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the sabbath of complete rest to the LORD. Anyone who does work on that day shall be put to death." <br><br>And touching a football or eating a BLT? Well.. maybe not death, but you aren "clean" anymore. <br><br>Leviticus 11:7-8 "which does indeed have hoofs and is cloven-footed, but does not chew the cud and is therefore unclean for you. [8] Their flesh you shall not eat, and their dead bodies you shall not touch; they are unclean for you."<br><br>Leviticus 11:24-25 "Such is the uncleanness that you contract, that everyone who touches their dead bodies shall be unclean until evening, [25] and everyone who picks up any part of their dead bodies shall wash his garments and be unclean until evening." <br><br>
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Posted By: <b>jdrum</b><p>"Dave, how long has this country had a proportional income tax? Since income tax began. <br><br><br><br>Thw well-to-do have always been asked to contribute proportionately more. Now it's just a matter of fine-tuning those proportions. Sounds pretty American to me."<br><br><br><br>Change! Maybe what we need is change! <img src="/images/happy.gif" alt="happy.gif">
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>So being gay is immoral because the Bible says so? Yikes.
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Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p><br> *** searches desperately for guy drinking a beer and eating popcorn emoticon ***
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p><object width="425" height="350" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/LrllCZw8jiM"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LrllCZw8jiM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><!--[if IE]><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LrllCZw8jiM"type="application/x-shockwave-flash"wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350" /><![endif]--></object>
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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p><img src="http://209.85.12.234/1672/27/emo/popcorn1.gif" alt="[linked image]"><br><br><img src="http://vbbc.forumotion.com/users/17/23/61/smiles/136179.gif" alt="[linked image]">
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p><<So being gay is immoral because the Bible says so? Yikes.>><br><br>Hey Barry, it's a tough book. What can you say? <br><br><br>(You've been living in NYC too long. Once you get out of there, you find the Troglodyte population is alive and thriving, even on the west coast.)<br><br><br>
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>so everyone who lives their life according to the Bible is a troglodyte......<br>
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