In contrast, I look at the tracking 50 times a day and stalk the mailman.

+1

I'm an impatient bastard too.:D

If my max bid is five times market value, I expect the lot to be shipped before the auction ends.;)

I actually had to go check.

I bought a part for an old tractor I have, but I'm not actively working on it. The guy who'd bought the brand (not in production since the 60's) Made a run of a particular cast part mine is missing. So I bought one.

I've never opened the package.

It was shipped to me in March 2016.

No kidding? :rolleyes:

Reading comprehension is a lost art.

One question is why would the buyer specifically ask for it to be shipped to arrive before Christmas, then (apparently) not verify it until he checked this thread in January?

He must have really wanted his winnings badly...

Bob, let's not allow logic to get in the way of wild speculation.

This does make sense. As long as he didn't open up the package and sell any of the cards off I suppose.

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea if when your package of auction winnings arrives, you open the box in a timely manner to make sure it was packed correctly. That would help you get a resolution if a mistake was made. Yes, we are all busy, but opening a box to check it for accuracy is probably a 5-10 minute project. It's time well spent.

Don't call an auction house a month after you received your winnings to say a mistake in shipping was made. If I'm the auctioneer (and I was for many years), that just sucks.

Logic wins.

Y'all need to come to a live auction and walk out the door with your winnings same day.

:)

Boy do I understand this statement. My ebay buying has dropped off a lot, but in the hey day of buying there'd be times I used to win 15+ lots a week (not every week was crazy, sometime's it was just a few). My travel schedule was brutal and I'd come home to 30+ packages. At first, I'd be very vigilant about checking everything but after a while the packages would just accumulate and I wasn't paying as much attention to whether or not I received everything I bought. Sounds crazy, but sometimes life just gets really busy and priorities change.

It wouldn't surprise me if I was shorted a package or two but that's what happens when you get sloppy with the accounting.

I'm much more in tune with my purchases now since they've dropped off a lot. I pick up things from fleabay and different AH's (including LOTG) and for the most part I have no complaints about any of the current AHs.

+1 on that as I'm in that boat. Heck, I still have unopened boxes from Hunt and Huggins in the basement dating back years. Dont have any plans on selling, and nothing jaw dropping that I need to take to the bank. Why open a perfectly wrapped box?

I guess he just wanted the BOX in time for Christmas then. That's plausible. Makes the gifts appear more plentiful if you wrap it up and put under the tree. Makes for a good platform to set up the Christmas train. You can use as a tray for the hot cocoa.

LOL

Same here!

Just made an observation of letting the OP have his winning lot for free. What would been the cutoff to not letting him pay...lot worth $1000?....at a certain price point i think everyone would be wondering.....its not like it was just 5 bucks.......it was $540 bucks...

If you note when the lot wasn't 'found' yet no free money was being offered in addition to refund. Why only after delivering the cards is he also going to let him have free money (keep the cards that went for $540). Why not offer him more than his refund (0-$540) to begin with for the mistake...would have costed the Auction House the same....yet all that was offered was the refund and alleged lack of communication..but they chose the giving free money action after this thread started and cards found (but not before the thread).........however the buyer that started this thread is very happy and it all worked out....

fairly obvious why-
 

The buyer wanted to be sure this large group of winnings had arrived safely at his home before he went out of town for the holidays, so he requested the faster shipment. Which didn't mean he was wild to look at them right away, presumably because he was busy with holiday stuff. Completely understandable.

In the same way, I have asked to have packages held and not shipped until I returned from out of town.

also obvious
 

This one is obvious too, from a customer service perspective. When all this blew up, the reputable AH owner decided he wanted to do absolutely everything possible to satisfy the customer and all onlookers - hence the offer of the refund. Ironically, for a few people, that extra-mile offer only served to create even more suspicion. :confused:

Man, it doesn't seem to matter what either the OP or the AH owner do - someone who knows better is going to jump all over them.

Can we all try to agree that everyone acted reasonably here and all has ended well? and move on.

Jake, thank God that we have you here. We'd all be lost without the presence of your immense knowledge regarding each subject which is discussed.

Strong hypothesis. But no need to speculate here. Fortunately for us, Al is on this board. He has been keeping us in the loop. Is that what happened Al? Did the guy who received the package simply leave it unopened during the holidays and opened it up when he read this thread? Or maybe the recipient of the package who returned the cards will chime-in, since he is obviously a board Member. I hate speculating when the answers are so easily accessible. Seems like a silly thing to quabble about, but I think it may bring closure to this ugly situation.

Kind of defeats the purpose not to even look at your cards once, no? Why not start a virtual collection? Or is it just investment?

Ugliest thing about this situation has been some people’s reaction to it IMO.

Al is super solid. We have never met, but I consider him a friend in the hobby. He is always super responsive to my emails, I have sold through him and bought though him and am 100% confident in him. Ok. 99.897%. Because businesses of all sizes make occasional mistakes.

Got that right....

Like they say, "opinions are like ass-holes, everybody's got one...."

My opinion -

OP probably jumped the gun on the post.

LOTG showed a lot of class in addressing this.

OP was understanding enough not to take the money and cards. IMO, that would have been a total dick move if the OP accepted the freebie.

In the end, OP and LOTG are good to go - a happy ending (of sorts).

For a lot of people, me included on occasion, a lot of the fun of collecting is acquiring the cards, not necessarily owning them. I'm excited when I click buy and can stop looking for something. Sure, there is some satisfaction in looking at some of the nicer cards, but some of the rather common pieces could stay in the box for a while.

I took that post as a joke. I hope he wasn't serious. How do you know if you even got the right cards if you leave them unopened? Mistakes do happen and this thread is proof of that.

Absolutely, I feel enlightened every time he quotes the sale price followed by GLWS and all the brilliance brought. The grasp of the obvious and go against the logistics is simply amazing. Bravo, just bravo...

I actually won a T3 card from LOTG in the winter 2015 auction and didn't get to see the card until over three months later. The box sat unopened at my house because my trip to visit relatives for a few weeks (which started days before the auction ended), turned into a 3 1/2 month trip when I was needed to help out with driving people to work after a family emergency. I ended up staying a little longer to go to Spring Training before returning home. So if there was a similar issue at that time, poor Al would have waited a long time to find out I had them.

He's a good guy, had him over one time to pick up some consignments and drop off some winnings.

It sure is :rolleyes: Especially when someone says two months in their post, which is quoted and still doesn't get that it's not even close.

Keep up the good work.

If JC was joking that went right by me, I must admit.

Disclaimer: I wouldn't see this post of my own if I didn't write it myself, as I lost interest after the first couple of pages the day it posted, but...

I can't believe it is topics like these that seem to generate the most interest on card sites (regardless of the site).

I personally come to these sites to view photos, hear stories, share information and even learn some things. It is sad too me that threads trying to stir up conversation and interaction that are on the topic of collectibles often tend to die quickly with little interest, but when a pot is stirred, the replies are buzzing in by the minute.

Now, back to your bickering...

Glad everything worked out and Frank will get his cards and Al took care of things.

I was looking at the lot again...I'm not a t206 guy but one of those cards looks tough? Isnt the t206 brown old mill back a super tough back or maybe I have confused with the other t206 OM...I thought the brown back was the toughie but I'm not a t206 guy and am probably confused per norm...

Glad there was an honest buyer out there who helped make things right. Enjoy the cards Frank.

I hear you, Mr Mopar. Here’s an attempt to bring it back to a positive place. I had a similar observation as Steve. Isn’t this an awesome buy given the rarity of that card? (Again, I’m not a backs guy either so I could be way off base.) If so, I can see why the OP was anxious to have those cards found, and I’m glad they’re returning to their rightful owner. As for Al, I don’t know him personally, but I was impressed with his honesty and desire to make things right, so much so that it helped me decide to commit my first large consignment to LOTG. I don’t believe in the adage that there’s no such thing as bad PR (there is), but when you respond to bad PR in a positive way, good things can happen.

Edit to add: Holy $hit. Steve posted the same observation while I was writing. LOL

Wow some people are really ignorant. Al makes a mistake makes it right and some fools say they won't bid with him. The man is human he made an error he admitted such and did what he could to correct it. Then another jerk piles on with the asinine oh it must have sold cheap so al didn't ship it. That's a load of crap and insulting to a very honest man. You owe Al an apology for such a freaking ignorant dumb a$$ statement. Then instead of issuing said apology you double down on the stupidity. Al sorry you had to prove you were human and have to deal with such utter nonsense. This happend over the holidays people remember to factor that into the equation. This will have zero impact on my bidding with LOTG. Still as good as they come, but al is still just a human and therefore can make a mistake. Jake do you even know Al or do you just get off playing the jerk off behind the safety of your keyboard? Keep doing the right thing Al those that know you know your a great guy and have your back.

If the card is really a Brown OM, that was an incredible steal, and very strange that it was not mentioned in the right up. Also strange would be that it is graded a "1" as I believe all Brown OMs are hand cut and get an "A" grade. There is not a scan of the back, and I know enough about Al that he would know a Brown OM and feature such a card, not bury it in a collector grade lot, unless he just didn't see it. I wasn't going to post in this thread, but this changed things. I would love to see the back.

+1

And if i were the consignor, i would have made sure to mention this to Al as well (prior to the auction)...pretty rare card to be lumped in with 10 common T206s. I can now see more clearly why there was such paranoia and panic by the OP!

It was a mistake on the flip.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=249408

The Brown OM was discussed in a thread two weeks ago. The general opinion of the board was that it was a Black OM, and was labelled incorrectly by PSA. If it was brown it should receive an Authentic grade. Furthermore, the card doesn't show up in the Pop report for Browns, and if you search the PSA database for that serial number, it shows up as Black.

But I hope that the OP will show us the back when he receives the card.

Oops, Pat beat me to it. I wish that I had learned how to type in high school.

Lotg
 

+1000

I must have missed all the bickering. I thought 90% of the posts here were just to make clear that Al, an advertiser on the site, is a good guy who runs a top operation. Sure there was some pissing and moaning along the way, but I thought that was why this thread had legs.

Al already said he understood why the OP started the post...so it would appear from Als post the OP jumped the gun..correct me if im wrong.

and again, for you to think it would of been a bad move to accept the freebie (free $520) again shows that you are surprised that amount would of been offered...which is what i said..

Also noted the freebie (whether additional money or keep the cards) was only offered AFTER this thread was started and cards found...not before

Luckily you are here to say something negative on every post i make....luckily for us you are here to find our path....

as to Ranier about quoting sales in posts...leon said specifically last week that this was not allowed to avoid any confusion....you emailed me a bunch on this whining and reporting it to Leon....so now its not done anymore...some agreed with it...some didnt.......but glad to see you take a chance to pile on with Tony and his checkered history with me (though i not comment negatively on his posts not directed toward me)....... Nice to see you cleaning up the hobby of people not having an asking price now for people to see 5 years from now...

maybe you can now criticize someone for bumping their thread too much that no longer does it anymore.....just wait for someone to criticize that person and then pile on...... congrats..

I think he said an ocean liner of words for a canoe of thought. And I am still not quite sure what the heck he meant!!

And I just saw him reply to you, now he can reply to me too. :)

Right and not only enlightnened but whine to me through email and email Leon...congrats its not done anymore as we had an official ruling on it by Leon a week ago.....Your post looks like you have no axe to grind. Glad you cleaning up the hobby..

Were you the kid that reminded the teacher that homework wasnt turned in yet after the bell?

I only made this post in response to yours thats throwing my name out there and talking about quoting prices..even though it wasnt done since Leon's ruling.. Not sure why you didnt want to leave things alone as it was since you got what you wanted...but maybe you like to stir the pot..

Bravo

Ill take canoe..its better than a paper boat which I have been accused of in the past... :)

Lotg
 

Always nice to see a happy ending but the OP is getting crushed and I can’t comprehend it.

Happy New Year 🎊

Jake, I guess you could call me asking you not to circumvent others wishes on leaving prices in the BST by quoting the OP, as some kind of ruling, but it was more of not allowing you to screw over others. It is up to each person to leave prices in the BST, when you quoted them you took their choice away. That isn't fair and won't be allowed. BTW without this thread there wouldn't have been a resolution yet, I don't think. Al is one one of the best and his customer was frustrated. Now it's fixed....all is well....

The OP did take a crushing and whether some agree with his methods or not, it worked. It's amazing to me how the cards went lost for 30 days, but once this thread was started they were miraculously found that very same day. I agree with Leon, I don't believe the cards would have been found (at least not anytime soon) if not for this thread. I truly believe it was an honest mistake, but it sure lit a fire under someone to find the cards.

This is nothing new though. I've seen similar situations like this before here where someone will complain against a board member and/or seller and the OP gets lambasted all because the one being complained against is considered a "good guy" in the hobby.

I received a package from Al (LOTG). It was at least a year before I opened. I trusted Al that it would be all there and I just pushed it aside until I cleaned my den. Months before his auction I had a heart attack and in the box was a heart felt note from Al wishing me well. One of the good guys? One of the best. Thanks Al.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this Brown Old Mill issue seems important. If it is, in fact, a Brown Old Mill, then it had no business in a lot of commons that sold for $500. If, on the other hand, the card was mislabeled, shouldn't that little detail have been mentioned in the description? I wonder if the OP even knew about the OldMill or if it was his motivation for purchasing the lot. It would certainly explain his anxiety about not getting the lot he purchased. Perhaps he will chime-in on that, though he may have PTSD after the beating he took.

I think the consensus is that it's really not a brown OM but, if the recipient thought it was, maybe that might be his motivation for not returning the cards right away.

I would love for the recipient to chime in as he obviously reads this thread, but something tells me that we won't be hearing from him.

I suspect the OP knew, which raises the question of why would a real brown OM be placed in a lot with 10 other pedestrian cards and displayed in the catalog without an image of the back, at least in the online version of the catalog?

If it’s not a real brown OM, perhaps PSA should chime in.

Post 197 from Pat had this link, http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=249408. The person who won the 11 card lot is the same person who started the thread in the link Pat provided. Clearly the description of the lot should have mentioned the card was mislabeled. At the very least a back scan might have helped since 7 of the 11 cards' backs were shown.

Its your website and its not me to question your rules. Once I understood the rule I followed it and i made no mention of the matter on the forum after the ruling.

You only heard me chime in in response to Ranier who made a comment about it and i wanted net54 to know the context of it. I found it odd since I had not done anything since the ruling.

I agree, net54 solved the issue with the OP and he was even offered a free $520 basically as well. That did not happen before he started the thread, correct me if i am wrong.

So the auction house sent the wrong cards to someone, but did offer the OP extra after the thread was started and after they got the cards and also it appears according to Botn , they could of had a better description on the Lot in question. Mistakes happen, im glad it all worked out.

I don't see what difference it makes if the Old Mill is brown or not. The card was won and paid for. Second guessing what should have been in the auction or not now or whether or not a card should have been sold is way past due.

Yeah I'm going to guess that an ultra rare Corcoran N172 wasn't part of the consignment.

Sensational. As a buyer or seller LOTG is the kind of AH I want to work with.
Al, I still haven't checklisted everything so you'll have to hit me up again for a future auction.....In my mind you're the best in the business because you are a really fine human being. Honesty pays, and you're as straight up and down as the days are long.

Updates...
 

First off I did receive Al's reimbursement check today, 1/11/18.
As previously mentioned, I will not be cashing this check, only holding it until the promised lot arrives.

Also, I did speak with Al today and he let me know that he has the cards ready to ship and he was also very adamant that the Paige was NOT a Brown Old Mill. Yes, I did notice the flip prior to bidding in the auction and took a gamble that it was indeed a BOM and perhaps I had stumbled across a little score. It also appears from our conversations today that I will not be receiving the Paige OM in my upcoming shipment. At this time I would prefer to let Al give the explanation as to why.

I realize that I said that I did not want to bump this thread, but since this update contains new information I felt it would be best to submit a new post for chronological purposes.

Frank Horvath

So you are getting what you paid for minus the one card....

Paige
 

That’s interesting.... where did that card go?

In case anyone cares, the cabinet guys and I have come to a resolution too. It's costing me $165 instead of $500.

:D:D

Was it postmarked the date it was claimed to be mailed (the 29th I believe)?


Well, Al, you're online right now. How about the explanation?

Hopefully back to PSA to get the flip corrected but in the meantime why not a bit more mystery.

Yep, it's coming. Hang tight.

-Al

Hurry up Al; I demand an explanation for an issue that has nothing to do with me.

Why did the honest recipient of cards that were not his sell one of the cards he didn't win? And what a coincidence that it was the one card that had a possibly erroneous flip which, on its face, was worth multiples of what the OP paid for it. Forgive me if these questions have been answered above; I just can't bear to read all of this.

Don't be a jerk. As auction bidders, it affects us all. I think there is a lot more to the story here than is being told.

The cards sure arrived back to Al awful quickly if the recipient only mailed them on Tuesday. That's some quick shipping. It takes a check 13 days to get from Al to the OP, but only takes less than 2 days for the cards to get from the recipient back to Al. :confused:

I also think Al knew in advance that the Brown OM wouldn't be returned and that's why he told the OP to keep the check.

Al, apparently there's nothing to explain. Your loyal friends and followers will support you no matter what man. Don't waste your time explaining why this guy's cards were lost, and then found, and then one went missing. Don't get into the coincidence that the one that went missing just happened to be labeled Brown Old Mill. There is no need. Please don't mention how long you've known about this missing card or why you failed to mention it in your rather lengthy post about finding the cards. Guys are going to believe what they are going to believe no matter what.

Ain't that the truth.

I think I have it
 

All you diligent conspiracy hounds are right! Did anybody notice the number of Al's most recent post, where he "claims" the "explanation" is "coming"? - surely that is the key to all this - (plus he's from New Jersey...) Al is in fact the Antichrist.!

That's a strong accusation. If true it wouldn't be a good look at all for LOTG, and a few posters in the thread would owe Jake an apology for criticizing him for questioning the gesture of allowing the OP to keep the lot and the check.

awesome! Hopefully Al posts something quickly so that hos post counter moves to 667!

if there has ever been a thread for "1420" to chime in, this would be it!

This thread has everything. Will an auction house crash and burn? Will a guy get a Brown Old Mill? Will a poster with a maligned theory be vindicated?

Tune in next time.....

I hate to admit it but I'm a bit glad I didn't unsubscribe from this thread 23 pages ago like I should have.

He has promised to hold the first 41 lots of his Spring 2047 auction for the Corcoran collection.

Hold tight. The best is yet to come.

😂😂😂 now that’s funny!

Wild theory here...perhaps PSA wants it back to reholder/relabel?

Brian

The plot thickens...

Developments over the last day or so require I make another post here, so here goes. Suffice to say I feel like the knucklehead in a bad 1970s sitcom. I know it’s a commonly-used phrase, but you can’t make this stuff up.

The lot in question, won by Frank, was a group of 11 T206 cards. This thread happened, and the person who received the cards in error told me he found ten of the 11. He kindly sent them back, because he’s a good guy, and did the right thing, and deserves a pat on the back. Frank was aware that only ten cards would be coming back. I did not know which ten, nor did I think to ask. Since Frank was only going to get ten of the 11 cards, and since in my mind I had already written off the cards as a loss, I offered Frank to keep his refund, as well as the cards. Frank showed exceptional character by refusing to take the money.

This morning I wake up and read about a Brown Old Mill. Guys, give me some credit. I feel pretty confident in saying that I’m not going to overlook a brown Old Mill and accidentally list it in a group of commons in my auction.

Back in early October, I received a submission of 76 T206s back from PSA, all from the same consignor. I grouped them together in lots, and passed them along to the part-time employee who was helping scan the cards for the auction. When I was proofing his work, I noticed that two cards were mislabeled by PSA as Brown Old Mill. One - the Paige - had already been scanned as part of what became lot 262 - the lot that started this thread. The second card - a Bill Bernhard that I was going to list on its own - had come back a PSA 4.5. Given that Brown Old Mills should not have numerical grades since they’re all hand-cut, something was clearly wrong - not to mention that neither back looked brown to me.

I contacted PSA about the two cards, and they asked me to send them back to be reholdered. I sent them back, PSA reholdered them and shipped them back to me immediately at their expense. Here’s a screen shot from the PSA submission of that reholdering/relabeling job, showing both cards and their cert numbers.

https://i2.wp.com/lotgauctions.files...ng?ssl=1&w=450

Meanwhile, the original lot of 11 cards - the one this thread is about, with the scan of the Paige card with the incorrect Brown Old Mill flip, was listed in the auction. The scan of the 11 cards SHOULD have been replaced with a new scan including the Paige in the correct holder. They weren’t. OR, the or the entire lot should have been listed as a group of 10 without the Paige. It wasn’t. That’s where I screwed up (the first time).

INSTEAD, the two cards that were reholdered by PSA wound up erroneously being re-scanned together, and listed as a separate lot in the auction - lot 234. That lot contains the Paige AND the Bernhard, in the correct holders. If you look at the Paige card in lot 262 and the one in lot 234, they are clearly the same card - same pinhole at the top, same cert number on the flip, but one has the wrong description on the label.

So now, I’ve got the same card listed in the auction twice, and I don’t realize it. It is a common card, graded 1, very unnoticeable. Except that Frank, and probably some other folks as well, think there’s a chance that there’s a Brown Old Mill hiding in a lot of relatively common T206s, and rolling the dice might wind up with a nice score.

And, of course, when Frank doesn’t get his lot, hilarity ensues, as it would only be natural for Frank to think that somebody was playing games on this end with his Brown Old Mill.

It wasn’t until this morning, when I read posts in this thread about the Brown Old Mill, that I realized that this problem went even deeper than I had realized. I contacted the guy who'd received the ten cards to make SURE he couldn't have possibly still had the 11th card, and he insisted there was no way. In searching to figure out if it was possible that I still had the Paige here, I searched “Paige” in my most recent auction - and there it was, in lot 234.

SO, I contacted the winner of lot 234, the two Old Mills, in hopes that I could buy that card back from him and send it along to Frank with the other ten.

The winner of that lot (lot 234) is a Net54 member, extremely well-respected in the hobby, one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet, and anyone who’s been on this board for any length of time knows him. I’m going to leave his name out of this thread. He’s working on a collection of Old Mill Southern Leaguers and I believe he’s building the set raw. So he went to break the card out of the new, ironclad PSA holder, and he damaged the card.

It looks like this now.

https://i2.wp.com/lotgauctions.files...pg?ssl=1&w=450

So that’s why Frank is not getting the Paige. Because it has a giant hole in it, as I discovered today. The guy who got the 10 cards by accident was being honest - he only got 10 cards, and he shipped them back quickly because he is a nice guy who lives one state away.

This afternoon I shipped the ten cards, along with a check for $100 to cover the cost of the Paige, to Frank, via Priority Mail. He should have them Saturday.

A promise: As long as Love of the Game Auctions is a business, I will occasionally make a mistake, and when I do, I will own it and do everything I can to fix it. Less occasionally, but still occasionally, I will make more than one mistake with the same lot. However, a far more important promise (I think): you will never, ever, see me engaging in any kind of sinister, unethical behavior. I understand that the natural response is to assume - especially given some of the history in this hobby - that the worst possible thing is happening. However, I started LOTG IN RESPONSE to that element of the hobby. There are no shenanigans going on with this company. Period.

Had I found that I made a mistake and listed a brown Old Mill in a lot of commons in my auction, I would have withdrawn the lot, explained why, and listed the brown Old Mill as its own lot in my next auction. I would NOT lie about it, be devious about it in any way, because that is not how I do things. For those of you who would like to think otherwise, I get it, but it’s just not that exciting. If you’re looking to find an auction house lying and cheating its customers, look elsewhere.

Once again, to Frank, I apologize for all the ridiculousness surrounding this lot. I’m not going to answer questions like “Why did he ask to have his items before the holidays?” or “Why did the mail deliver one thing really fast and another thing really slow?” because they’re unanswerable questions.

I hope this clears everything up.

-Al