Yes! I would also suggest filing a complaint with the FTC. Not sure if anyone has tried this route before but it's worth a shot given how widespread this is. Go to Complaint Assistant - Internet Services/Online Shopping or Something Else if you're not sure which category you're in given your individual experience. Even if the FTC can't do something about it they can direct the information to those who can.

I am so impressed by the hard work a public company like eBay was doing over Memorial Day Weekend that I just went and bought some stock.

.delete

Noose. Tightening.

Maybe it's the lawyer in me but given my experience I have a feeling the timing of things wasn't a coincidence. At least I'm hoping so. Something like this happening during a holiday weekend can actually be a good sign in that law enforcement is doing something while people aren't expecting it.

That being said, VCP has been incredibly helpful over the years. Bobby is responding promptly to questions, despite the time difference and being in Hawaii. Meanwhile every time I login here now I see the huge PWCC banner. Huh?

Even assuming Bobby is being truthful, isn't it still the most plausible explanation of why ebay pulled the feed that Brent asked them to? He wouldn't be found to be in violation after many years out of the blue on a holiday weekend.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion. That said, since you have 2 entirely different names on your registration, could you please respond to my PM. thanks..

By entirely different names you mean an incorrect spelling of my first name? I've messaged you twice. And I've been waiting for your phone call for 15 minutes. I'm happy to talk. I'd just love to know how much longer I'm supposed to wait.

Thanks for the chat. Just as I said, just want to make sure we have real people, as much as possible. Sorry for the slight intrusion. Carry on.

No worries! It was great to finally chat with you Leon. Looking forward to some pizza in Chicago! And to all the drama kings out there - name issue was most likely due to my ex-fiance who hacked into my accounts a few years ago. So yes I'm real. Continue on with the convo. Hopefully this doesn't get me in trouble with Leon again! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjx9oSJDAVQ

Great, I didnt want this to be a "bye Felicia" moment for the boards.

Chicago...worst pizza ever. Thin crust all the way!

Unfortunately, I only deal in real people.

I've never used VCP in my life, but I'm not sure why people are acting like their API being turned off implicates them in the "conspiracy".

There's certainly a legitimate conspiracy going on, but anybody who has followed Ebay for any amount of time, knows that they have been secretive of their bidders identities for years now, even if they might have been conveniently overlooking tools that revealed this exact thing (they have BTW shut down many other outside tools that has done this through the years).

It wouldn't have taken a whole lot of prodding from PWCC or even one of the bidders who were getting revealed in the Blowout Forums posts, for Ebay to shut down the VCP feed.

Why? There is a little bit of gotcha journalism going on where everything is being questioned. If you read some of the threads at Blowout where scammers actually try to plead their case, they usually have a long line of "not my fault, just following orders, was it really wrong?, God bless" that makes them skeptical of others who are actually telling the truth.

The deep dish is kind of gross but Chicago thin crust is actually pretty darn good. And really bobbyw? Comments like that is exactly why I left a few years ago. Rude.

Well then thankfully ebay has the intestinal fortitude to enable resellers and consignors to commit fraud on their site anonymously. If only they took transparency as seriously as Leon.

Yes, it's quite the playground for the ill-intentioned.
Of which, this hobby has no shortage.

j.e.f.f.d.r.u.m.

I am not on blowout- can you post some links to threads where scammers please their case? Thanks

I'll see if I can find any,.

[QUOTE=bnorth;1881799]Is anyone making a list of all the scammers being exposed?

There is a "sticky" thread on BO that has links to all these threads to make it easier to find them. Its under the member sales, trade feedback area...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...1276110&page=4
Superior Sports (Sliheets in Dallas)

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1255123
BuyNiceCards (E Bitz) - White Knights on Page 12, 14 defending Bitz.

I know there are some more, but those threads go on for ever. Would be nice if they had a pinned thread for all Banned usernames and what thread they were banned for... ;-)

Ok, let me rephrase my post by only keeping the very last sentence then:


It wouldn't have taken a whole lot of prodding from PWCC or even one of the bidders who were getting revealed in the Blowout Forums posts, for Ebay to shut down the VCP feed.



Even on Memorial Day weekend............which may have been the strangest "they must be part of the problem" statement, I read in this thread.

Half this country worked through Memorial Day Weekend. Hell, Lowe's was open until 10pm on Memorial Day.

LOL, really wouldn't be hard for Ebay to receive a complaint and press a button over a Holiday weekend.

Appreciated the post comparing the situation at hand to the movie, The Big Short.

Getting worse, if that's possible...

A 1951 Mays and 1934 Gehrig were just exposed on BO. The '51 Mays was graded "A" by SGC and then given a "5" by PSA :eek:

To the person who asked... The '52 Mantle PWCC Thread on BO has become the best one for information and updates.

Nice post Pete, let's change things up a little here.... What are the guesses of Beth's bra size? And yes, I know the answer.....

I reached out to the Superman 1940 68 PSA 8 owner and he is not happy.

Sounds like he needs a lawyer to go after Brent, Moser and PSA.

PWCC has a Yelp page.....

Is the majority of these cards non-vintage?

Took a quick scan of the cards and noted they were all modern except for the handful of them.... And I bid on that Mays too!

Detroit-style is better than either one.

A well reasoned one?

That come in leaded and unleaded?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

We're talking a company that once sent out a holiday catalog with counterfeit products* right on the cover. Integrity ain't exactly Ebay's middle name as I'm sure we're all aware. :)

* - Unsure of exact year but the product in question was a counterfeit Peyton Manning Colts jersey. They were touting that the average price for buying one was something like $37. The jersey shown was an obvious fake and a quick search of pretty much any name player will reveal that 90% (at least) of the jerseys on Ebay for that player are counterfeit.

Diesel, baby. Detroit power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit-style_pizza

I would say almost all of the Moser cards have been vintage, anywhere from Goudeys, t206s, t227s, and lots of 48 leaf, vintage topps (1962 PSA 8 Mantle and Mays Bowman rookies) etc... also hockey, Maurice Richard and others... and vintage basketball such as the Bill Russell rookie...then even non sports but still Vintage like the Superman mentioned above. They appear to have been trimmed, colored, washed, etc etc...

Then yes there are other cards such as Mike Trout rookies, and basketball rookies of modern players that have been trimmed as well. Mostly by BuyNiceCards and SSI...and that guy Robert Block... many sold through PWCC but others also sold via other venues.

Takes me back to Ann Arbor.

(One of) the worst possible things about being in California is the pizza situation. Out here, it's 95% bread with just the tiniest whisper of sauce on top. It's like dipping a loaf of Wonder Bread into an empty Ragu jar. Places that advertise "New York Style Pizza!!!!!!!" (yes, that's how it's usually written) are so full of crap. Theirs is comprised of 'only' 94% bread. Yeah, big difference. The best day of my life in the past few years was when my sister flew out to visit and carefully packed 8 slices of Little Vincent's pizza (from Long Island) in her luggage. I ate like a king that night.

That's funny. Little Vincent's is less than 5 minutes from where I grew up.

Anyone consider cancelling VCP membership asking for partial refund?

Why
 

I'm not sure why you would, unless I'm missing something. In order to get his site to work, he had to pull the buyer info, right? Maybe I'm missing something, but Bobby doesn't seem to be the problem. That's what I'm going with for now...

Cheers,
Geno

What a mess.

Hes violated his own T&C which hasn't been updated.

"After clicking on a grader/grade combination you get a listing of past sales containing all the crucial information enjoyed by the hobby's biggest collectors and dealers. This information includes: Date, Auction, Image used in auction, Seller, Buyer, Bid Count, Extra info and Price."

Meanwhile the whole freaking page is an ad for PWCC.

They just found a Howie Camnitz Tolstoi t206 that had a pinhole and Moser was actually able to fill in the pinhole to get it graded from a PSA 1 to a PSA 4.5.

And Moser even doctored 1955 Parkhurst midget wrestling cards....getting the one from a PSA 6 to a PSA 8!!

And we’re talking gains of only a couple hundred bucks on these...which is all it is for many..

They have apparently been posting a lot of these findings now onto Facebook groups... it’s seems like it’s just a matter of time now for this thing to really blow up....

It's ironic that Brent, who seems so tech savvy, did not appreciate the potential to get caught with his own tech paper trail.

Depends on where you are, Darren. I do agree that most of it is crap but we have some really good stuff here in L.A., and that's coming from a NYC expat (me) whose favorite food is pizza and who suffered for decades with cruddy pies from schlockmeisters like Straw Hat. Mulberry Street (Beverly Hills, Sherman Oaks, Encino) does a serious NY slice. Crust as thin as Rocky Lee's used to be. Joe's Pizza (Hollywood, Sherman Oaks, DTLA) also has a respectable thin crust (but you need to add oregano to make it really choice). The one thing no one can get right out here is Sicilian, but I can deal with that.

So it happened this morning and he hasn't updated his T&C? I don't know that that's such a crime. Boeing is still advertising deliveries of the 737 Max if you go their website, and that plane killed people. Should that be allowed, or is that against T&C? I don't know if VCP is where the finger should be pointing. Just my two cents...

Cheers,
Geno

Did Bobby just make up the background episode from years ago he provided for context, on the fly? At this point I am inclined to believe him. I suspect Brent pressured one of his ebay contacts.

Thanks John!

More collector grade cards coming up now like a T206 Addie Joss from a
2 to a 4 for about a $140 gain. The SGC A to PSA 5 1951 Bowman Mantle
is incredible.

Sounds plausible, PWCC behind it 100%. Why not reach out directly, seems to be their biggest advertiser? Maybe too obvious?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

That’s not me Bobby, it’s a different Matt Miller. I have no ability to do anything with PSA. That was the point of the picture being taken. It was taken as my name was on it, and a friend was sending it to me.

Calzones > pizza :p

That's not a bad thing anymore. You might be better off Matt.

At the rate this is going.... you’re correct!

I am not on these boards very often as you all know. I have never even heard of Blowout before and the evidence is overwhelming. My question though and I could not find an answer anywhere is why are they going after PWCC and not PSA? Some of these cards are so obviously trimmed it looks like 1/8th of inch was taken off at least. Do the graders at PSA not even bother to measure cards? So why off with PWCC's head and not after PSA for letting so many of these blatantly doctored cards get graded? I don't even see any mention of PSA doing anything wrong...

You didn't look hard enough. There is debate whether it's complicity or incompetence, and some people even want to deflect ALL the blame to PSA, but nobody is giving them a pass as far as I know.

Seems to me all the pitchforks and torches are headed to PWCC

Overt fraud is more interesting than probable negligence.

So they are claiming that PWCC knew that the cards that got graded by PSA were in fact tainted? Seems like a stretch..

Sorry if it has been covered just trying to wrap my head around the whole thing.

It's been covered ad nauseum, and it's not a stretch at all given what's been uncovered, there's no shortcut for reading it.

The bottom line is people have too much money tied up in their PSA graded cards. They don't want to see PSA become another GAI, which could happen before all this is over. It's easier to deflect it to PWCC. I hope PSA falls big time and its reflected in the value of their cards.

Billy Martin, July 24, 1978, speaking about George and Reggie:

"One's a born liar, the other's convicted"

As relevant today as it was then??

It's a lot to digest Bobby, I know. I am seeing the same thing. The detectives over there are uncovering MASSIVE amounts of cards that have been doctored. To the degree that I am totally dumbfounded and sickened at the amount of deception that one person in particular has bestowed upon us.

Cliffnotes version: Card doctor buys cards from PWCC, doctors them, PWCC submits them for him raw, then sells them in higher slabs. Over and over and over again, and they're just starting over there.

Brent is also the one putting his foot in his mouth repeatedly both by trying to redefine "conservation" vs. "alteration" and doing that ill-advised hourlong interview to explain just how much he's working to out all the fraud, and will never work with card doctors "again." Except the cards are still for sale in PWCC auctions.

Have you seen my new signature block on both sites? PSA deserves a bunch of the blame, but PWCC is trying to be a mouthpiece for the industry and we are the ones that "have to mature." All the while, a million dollars of fraud is going through his auctions almost exclusively. I haven't seen a statement from him/Betsy in days, and haven't received a response to my email to Steve Sloan or Betsy in two weeks.

All that, and one of the main BODA guys is promising fireworks coming up. My bet's on the 1993 SP Derek Jeters that have sold recently for $100K through PWCC and disappeared off of their website during their website glitch. Although it looks like maybe another fraudster has been uncovered.

Your website losing critical functionality at this point in the online investigation just looks "hinky," as Velma would say. Who else would have the pull to get eBay to censor you except for a dealer like PWCC?

I have asked multiple times for proof of this, but my requests have gone ignored. If it's been posted, then I simply overlooked it so please re-post.

I have not seen it either. Brent does admit that he has submitted cards for clients, but has never said who those clients were. Maybe his lawyer finally told him to zip it.
https://i.imgflip.com/23by70.jpg

David I know they concluded that, and I do recall he admitted subbing the DiMaggio card, but I can't recall all the steps in their reasoning. But he clearly knew what this individual did to cards, I can attest to that myself from conversations.

+1 They have been a joke since the beginning.

If SGC could just get off their lazy asses and actually do something this could be a huge opportunity for them.

They never have really taken on PSA, in their marketing have they?

It was a joke...I know...hard to tell on the internet. My apologies.

I love SGC and use them for any PC card I am getting graded. That said it is like they want to fail. Everything but their quality of grading absolutely sucks.

They don't need to take on PSA, they just need to not suck at everything but grading. They have an unbelievable opportunity now that I hope they don't piss away. Maybe they hate money.:confused:

Patrick.....that is horrible....the really sad thing about all this?? No one knows HOW DEEP this chasm actually is!!! These cards being exposed might only be the tip of the iceberg!!

There were some auctions by PWCC that stated that the cards he was selling came from a raw collection that PWCC was selling (graded) and they were Moser trim jobs. I believe that is where that assumption came from initially. Also the fact that Brent has never denied doing so (that I have seen) also tends to indicate it probably occurred.

These were such pathetic and obvious attempts to stick up for PWCC. No one’s giving PSA a pass. Your boy Brent could be in deep doo-doo, regardless of PSA.

I have absolutely no affinity for PWCC. Absolutely despise the deception and what they are doing.

But I also feel that PSA is the bigger evil here. Their cancer is further-reaching and infinitely more pervasive. Once those tainted cards are slabbed in PSA Holders, they can be sold ANYWHERE. The hobby is now infected, much like an HIV virus... you can’t even begin to keep track of where all the bad cards will end up after being re-sold, traded, consigned, or passed down to next of kin.

Hopefully both parties will go the way of Mastro, Legendary and Rogers with this scandal. And I do agree with those who have stated that PWCC is getting the brunt of the anger on a disproportionate basis. There are far more people with a vested interest in PSA than with PWCC. Unfortunately it’s just human nature to protect one’s “assets”.

Unlike forum boards were ads are basically 100% of their revenue. VCP main income comes from our membership not from advertisers. Advertising makes up less than 7% of our revenue. Our main interest has always been members first and only. I have from day one since starting VCP tried my best to be as neutral as humanly possible. I sold all of my collection so that there would be no reason for me to have any thing to gain by doing what we do. I have been contacted many times trying to get me to remove certain sales data from the website for people that I flat out denied. I have run VCP with integrity and honesty from the start. I am not a person to beat around the bush and I am not a person that is a bull shitter or liar. I pretty much say what is on my mind and straight to the point. This might hit a nerve with some people but that is just who I am. I don't like to be ripped off and I don't like seeing people in this hobby getting ripped off as well.

Then a good start to prove that will be to read the overwhelming evidence provided by Blowout and stop taking PWCC advertising dollars. The road to ripoffs appears to be traveling directly through there.

There is no cliff notes version of this. It's extensive, some of it is complicated, portions of it are speculative but there's often good reason for that speculation, a lot of it is still "circumstantial" because OBVIOUSLY no one is going to directly admit to trimming cards on a message board. However, the pictures speak for themselves. There are HUNDREDS of them, across all sports and non-sports, vintage and modern.

Using the the slab numbers of those that are pretty clearly trimmed, leads to other slabs numbered close to those, which at least at some level casts some doubt over those other cards. Not conclusive, maybe not even circumstantial, but certainly questionable.

There is also extensive work done that indicates specific buyers of certain cards, particularly from prior PWCC auctions, that then came back into later PWCC auctions with higher grades and updated flowery descriptions. Since we don't know who the consigners were, and OBVIOUSLY PWCC isn't going to tell us that, it's still circumstantial at best. The SPECULATION is that possibly those cards were busted out of the cases, sent back raw to PWCC to be submitted to PSA for grading, and then coming back in the new better cases and FREQUENTLY given the PQ/HE stickers.

PWCC appears to admit knowing who some of these people are, and admitting to having done business with them in the past in their tenets thread. PWCC in their video said "pictures are not evidence", which is just a silly thing to say, especially considering earlier on in March-May PWCC had taken down some auctions when they were identified as trimmed USING PICTURES. They've also said they don't know who the consignors are when the stickers are given out, but that just doesn't ring true and has been refuted by at least one consignor.

If you prefer to play lawyer, then I guess there's some scenario that can be created where PWCC didn't know anything and is really a victim here. Maybe there's a scenario where PSA/BGS didn't really know these people either. However, the volume that's been discovered thus far is pretty overwhelming, and it's not a huge leap of logic to believe there is very likely much more out there to be discovered.

I suspect it will take some legal authorities to get involved to accelerate the discovery and get to the funds flow, but based on what has been found thus far it's not hard to imagine there's a lot more interaction between the TPGs, PWCC and the bad actors than anyone is currently letting on. Give it time.

This is NOT going away. Go read just some of those threads and try to convince yourself that these "investigators" sound like they're just planning to drop all this at some point. Not gonna happen.