Go to law school David and get back to us.

I don’t know how this transcended into finances, morals and whatever but nonetheless I’m happy to hear you are not broke and look forward to bidding against you on some great cards at upcoming auctions. But continuing to bring up Jeff’s personal issues, which are really between him and his family and none of us know really know what transpired anyway, only makes you look petty and I’m not sure this is the appropriate forum for that. Maybe if you feel this strongly it would be better for you to reach out to your clergyman and discuss the problems you have with him?

Who said he texted anyone during a trial?

Not even high character individuals with superior morals???

I’m sure he sexting girls while in court cross-examining witnesses. And let’s add in that he’s also having sex with them during lunch breaks. And I’ve also seen him text while driving a couple times too so let’s throw that in there too.

Unfortunately this conversation has deteriorated and I’m left with thinking you are nothing but a petty, jealous, moron. Oh but I forgot, a petty, jealous moron with lots of integrity.

Lawyer bashing on he board is de riguer. Pretty soon someone will be ignorantly misquoting Shakespeare. Count on it.

Look in the mirror, douchebag.

There's a fine line though. Jeff has a wife and a family. Regardless of who agrees and disagrees and however we all feel there's no need to go there period when talking about another member.

I agree 100%. The only thing that I've said against Jeff was his interview on CBS when he said that El Chapo had been nice to him. As that it some excuse for all the crimes that El Chapo committed.

This is exactly what I referred to back on the first page of the threads....Can these former posts and threads come back to haunt him? Having said that, I absolutely have issue with Jeff's decision to represent Huigens, it paints a very ugly picture on what has been a very long, angered, and disapproved situation of PWCC and Brent Huigens, a lot of which were initiated by Lichtman... I stated previously that it was hypocritical and lacked integrity.. I do believe, however, that Jeff's personal and business life (outside of the baseball card world) should not be presented in this type of forum.....

I’m looking brother and all I see is a guy who is trying to help you. You should all look up the definition of the phrase “self fulfilling prophecy” because most of you won’t be happy until it gets to that.

I get the disappointment Kevin and I assure you I was as well. However as this all plays out I am beginning to see it differently so let’s see what transpires in the near future and then perhaps we will all understand things a little differently than we do today. Doesn’t make one side right or wrong but a baseball game doesn’t end until 27 outs are made. And don’t start with rainouts!

I have no pull, but I would love to see this thread locked/pulled down. It has deteriorated into all out name calling and bashing people for things that have nothing to do with cards or scandals in the card industry.

Jeff is representing PWCC. It will be what it be. Going to get my popcorn....

Steven, sell me your W600 Wagner!!!

He says he took the case in part so he can be on the inside and work to make sure as many collectors as possible can be made whole. Whether or not any of us believe him is irrelevant. His actions will prove his words true or untrue in the coming months. What is the harm in giving him a chance to do what he said he will do?

The personal attacks against another member should have no place on this board. Especially regarding his personal life. There are countless examples in many threads not just related to Jeff or even PWCC. This site has been going down hill for a while in terms of negative and inappropriate comments. Many members have even left, or avoid commenting for the most part, which is unfortunate. And I think we may have hit a new low with this thread.

"Unsext me here"?

I appreciate you guys wanting to stop the name calling and the rest but I assure you I’m a big boy as is my brother and we can handle it. At the end of the day I think we all want the same thing and unfortunately frustration sometimes gets in the way and things deteriorate as they have here. Hopefully we all can put our hopes and trust in Jeff, since we really don’t have much of a choice anyway, and see where that takes us. I know which way I’m betting but if I were him and had to put up with this abuse, it would give me a lot less incentive to help. My two cents for whatever that’s worth.

And Ryan I will see you next at the Famous and Barr Ruth! You cost me plenty on that Wagner!

I agree, these personal attacks are way out of line, and have nothing to do with cards.

Also agreed. In all seriousness if Jeff was all "yeah El Chapo is mean and a real jerk!" who knows if he'd be alive to represent Brent. I mean going from El Chapo to El Brento. Who would have thought.

Lead on macduff!

Bubble bubble toil and trouble.

I don't have any pull either. I think there might be something else behind this thread.

As in why is Leon letting it continue? I don’t know. I know he and Jeff haven’t always seen eye to eye but don’t think that’s influencing this thread remaining open.

Nope. That actually made me laugh out loud. Now you're pressing it.

That is total BS...Leon lets forum threads run for the most part... Hell, I've seen threads up for a month! BST threads are more sensitive.

And that is at least enough to have your full name out here, I would think? I know you but most others probably don't.

I’m not arguing that. I was asking where the previous comment was hinting at.

LIke what? It is what it is....Jeff is representing a crook that he has lambasted on this forum since Moby Dick was a minnow!

The forum has been going downhill for the last 18 yrs. Hopefully there will be 18 more.

One other small thing, my goal is always to try my best to not interfere with threads. That is why they stay up and don't get locked, generally speaking, and almost never go poof. And if there is negativity then that is what it is. I don't tell people what to say or not to say. If someone has their name next to it I think they should be able to fire away, per the less than strict rules pertaining to our subject matter.

No, unrelated to Leon. I'm thinking in trial terms and legal specifics down the road. Brother saying what he has on here something doesn't seem right. Hopefully I'm just neurotic and wrong!

Jeff maybe telling his brother to zip it once he sees this.

What does any of this have to do with a trial? It's a message board, not evidence.

Brother ain’t telling me what to do anywhere.

LOL. This must be an interesting family dynamic.

Until they get Brent and Moser bankrupt, in jail for life and free parking vouchers for the next trade show they won’t be happy.

What is said here can absolutely be used as evidence in a trial, no?

I just want the cheater effer to come out and say HE targeted the cards that were to be trimmed and altered, HE ran a shill bidding operation, he cheated e-bay, HE didn't pay his taxes on ill gotten gains. HE put stupid stickers on cards he knew were his and trimmed. HE was Eddie Embelisher in his descriptions. HE was the Maestro. How fitting his name is Brent Mastro, pun intended.

It would depend what it was and for what purpose it was being offered. What on this thread could possibly be admissible in a trial against PWCC or Brent?

Yes this will all be Exhibit A in United States vs Brent Mastro. Leon, seriously you’re kidding right?

Knowing Brent and Betsy Huigens, sincere good luck with that....

I'm guessing their family Thanksgiving is going to be pretty pretty pretttyyy interesting this year.

This is where I'm confused....If Jeff is defending Brent then he is arguing Brent's knowledge to these crimes, correct? So if that's the case, why couldn't these posts and threads be a concern where he is blasting his credibility?

Don't leave out chemical cleaning as long as you're making a list.

Love it!!

Sure, but Jeff isn't on trial.

EDIT: Actually nobody is! Yet.

It is sort of hard to get a feel for sarcasm sometimes, over the internet. I guess it is common knowledge you can be held accountable for what you say on a public chat board. Or do you not think so?

My comments are not pertaining to Jeff, sorry for the miscommunication on my part. They are in general.

What posts are we talking about here?

I thought this started in the context of this particular thread. I was responding to post 189.

I was only talking in general context as I just stated. Sorry about that. As far as Jeff posting anything, or representing Brent, again, you guys and girls can talk about that stuff. I have my own thoughts. sorry about that.

Oh ok well sure in theory if something said here was relevant and otherwise admissible.

Sorry, I thought I let it be known when necessary.
Jeremy Wa@oner.

I understand, it just seemed the thread had taken the turn to trying the lawyer. You know pretty unequivocally where I stand, but that doesn't mean I think it's OK to attack someone's entire life, that's all.

I guess it makes me look like I approve of everything he does. Accept where I point out repeatedly that I don't :)

man look what i missed.......why does everyone care about personal stuff.....i just go by what is said on the board....personal stuff is personal man....


hmm maybe ill pull a jeff and criticize Microsoft on many things and then they hire me....

You mean, like it wasn't hearsay or subject to an exception? Not a FRE 403 issue? Not a 404 issue? It would be pretty easy to make several other arguments to keep all of this out as well. I think you would have to be pretty imaginative and have a pretty understanding judge to get most of this in.

Fair enough, I can appreciate where you are coming from and respect your position

If this ever gets to court it would be cool if the judge presiding over the case was a vintage card collector :-)

I didn't mean anything on this thread, or in any other thread, I just meant in theory. That's how I took Leon's question.

I believe I read somewhere once that Judge Ito collected low grade filler Zeenuts. :D

I am once again not disagreeing with you. I just think it would be extraordinarily difficult, verging on impossible, to get what Jeff said before he was retained, into evidence. Haven't really sat down and given it the thought I would if was an issue in one of my cases. But I'm not seeing it at first glance.

Impossible. Not his lawyer so not an admission. Inadmissible opinion. Irrelevant. Unduly prejudicial. Etc.

I appreciated what you're saying. I think it just stings some of us because he is so passionate about cards and knows EXACTLY what Brent Mastro was up to. To have him on THAT side of this fiasco is a tough BITTER pill to swallow for me. It's total BS.

"Out dam spot"

Lady McHugiens

Bleach, to thy work.

How could I forget, the chemicals.:D

Especially as a hazardous waste specialist. I hope they are getting rid of their flammable liquids on a hazardous waste manifest. Those illegal dumping charges are tough to beat.

The cards themselves are probably hazardous.

Chuck, I totally understand that it feels very tough to accept but is the goal to punish Brent to the fullest extent the government wants to (and who knows what that is if anything?) or is it to try and solve the bigger problem and in addition try to get those affected their money back?

How are you defining the bigger problem? And what do you suggest can possibly remediate it?

Cards will one day disintegrate in slab.....one will wonder .......its the Chemical Wizard

Not sure if the word "believe" applies to lawyers. It is a term that seems to be relative to them, when a client comes calling.

I think I will the go with the suggestion that we wait and see. I am also not happy that Jeff agreed to represent PWCC, and I very much hope that Brent goes down in flames. But, as has been said before, wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one is filled first.

Bleach is how they get the "damn spot" out, right?

Maybe you missed my earlier post. I'll ask again. Why is Jeff so concerned about getting restitution for those affected? Did he champion the cause for restitution for El Chapo's victims? Sure, many of them were from rival cartels, but many innocent people were killed too. What about restitution for the victims families?

Good ol' Jeff...always thinking about compensation for others. How selfless? :rolleyes:

Edited to add: And, from what I understand, Brent was already refunding people even before being represented by Jeff. If I'm wrong, correct me on that. If I'm right, stop bullshitting that it's because of Jeff's involvement.

El Chapo was not a cooperator. David, stick to what you know.

Hey I already said that.

From my vantage point scammers like Brent and Moser will always exist especially in an industry that is not regulated and does not appear to be on any governmental radar to be regulated in the near future. That being said, getting rid of Brent and Moser just gives you personal satisfaction but next month you have Trent and Hoser doing the same thing so you’re back to square one.

To me the bigger question lies with how are these cards getting slabbed by TPG’s? Are they just incompetent, paid off, or what? Why isn’t every card scanned when graded so when it comes back in altered it quickly shows up as previously graded? What responsibility do TPG’s have to honor their guarantees? If they are not and instead are giving people the runaround is someone going to legally challenge them? Is that all in the works? Are attorneys already engaged and preparing lawsuits?

All I know is it’s probably unrealistic to expect that 100% of altered cards are going to get caught by the TPG’s but aren’t we at a point where obviously altered cards are getting through with no issue. Can Brent help shed light on how that is happening? Does he have information that it’s anything other than incompetence? I have no idea but I’d sure like to find out.

And even if it is just incompetence isn’t it time TPG’s shouldn’t be able to hide behind self serving statements? Is someone going to hold them accountable? If there are better mechanisms in place to detect fraud does it ultimately matter if a few cards get through? Does Macy’s know a couple percentage of their sales is going to be lost to various theft? Does that mean that they still don’t do everything they can to stop it? Are TPG’s?

As nauseating as Brent is, who is the bigger problem him or Steve Sloan who is putting out embarrassing statements. Do you think he’s trying to help you?

If in the end Brent can help shed some light on these topics and in return gets treated favorably isn’t that a better result than him going to jail forever and nothing else changing? And in no way am I insinuating any of things are happening or will happen but don’t you think if they could that would be a better result?

Feel free to shoot away.

LOL, must have missed it. I absolutely HATE agreeing with you again. This is starting to become routine. :)

Don’t post here a lot so please take this question at face value....

Why is this so personal for you? I see a lot of people disappointed with this
representation but it seems to bother you on a whole different level.

Maybe because we both despise fraudsters?

The silence would be deafening

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LOL, Ted my friend you are killing me.:)