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03-20-2007 07:34 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: barrysloateJohn- You've got to share that noodle kaboodle recipe with me!

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03-20-2007 07:38 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: JohnNEVER SLOATE! FOR THE LAST TIME NEVER! <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/-46.gif"> LAY OFF WILL YA, TAKE A HINT! <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/143.gif">

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03-20-2007 07:50 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: JimCrandellWonkaticket, Yup you can come--but bring the picture--although I am not going to change the date for you. Like last year there are certain to be several illustrious guests. Barry--direct answer--because I don't. Doesn't bother me at all--I consider the sources.

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03-20-2007 07:53 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Rob DewolfJust for the record, if you're trying to say that you care very little about something, the correct phrase is "I couldn't care less" as opposed to "I could care less."

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03-20-2007 08:05 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanBarry, of course Jim cares that everyone dislikes him. Any human would -- it's literally human nature to care that people hate you whether you admit it or not. It's one of the things that separates us from the animals. Why do you think he's so quick to kiss up to certain posters who have previously attacked him wildly out here -- just to try to align himself with someone, anyone for comfort? I'm also sure Jim has sent you plenty of emails decrying his treatment on the board - assuming he has, why else would he send them unless the constant criticism bothered him? I think the problem is that Jim knows of no other way to communicate with others and, inevitably, he gets himself into these predicaments time and time again, in venue after venue. As such, he has to try to claim that he enjoys the hatred because, otherwise, he'd be forced to acknowledge that a) he has a problem and b) he must fix the problem. These are two things that are either too painful for Jim to accomplish or too difficult. A rough analogy would be when Pee Wee Herman flips over the handlebars of his bike, rolls on the ground and then pops up, miraculously unscathed. His immediate reaction? "I meant to do that." The speed in which Jim gets frustrated, as evidenced by his now expected and juvenile "ha ha" and "I consider the source" responses indicates that he just cannot figure out how to handle his problem in an adult, rational manner -- and instead just lashes out with non-sequiturs that are not responsive or logical. Another rough analogy especially for you: remember the guy that Elaine dated that when frustrated with her after she criticized him would say things like "you've got a big head - do birds ever fly into that gigantic head?" Same mentality.

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03-20-2007 08:20 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: JimCrandellIn the case of Jeff, its called an obsession. Apparently he has absolutely nothing else going on in his life that he ponders on and on about me, asks others not on the board about me and attributes all these thoughts to me. This is someone with a first class psychological problem no doubt about it. Sorry--I have not sent Barry plenty of e-mails--but if you spend hours and hours more obsessing over me perhaps you can find someone. Jeff hates me everyone--he wants everyone to know--he hasn't said it enough times so I will say it again for him. Funny thing though--evry time I try to engage him in specifics or e-mail me to discuss his views he never responds and reverts to the hate Jim approach.

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03-20-2007 08:23 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanJim, did you have to respond exactly the way I predicted you would?

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03-20-2007 08:24 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: John"Yup you can come" "Like last year there are certain to be several illustrious guests." Sweet!! Hmmm I wonder who they will be these illustrious guests??? Ahh man this is going to drive me crazy, am I the only one who is wondering who??? <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/large/Untitled-1.jpg">

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03-20-2007 08:47 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: JimCrandellWonka, You are going to have to wait until the invites are out--and although you are invited as of this moment, you are going to have to watch yourself--one slip-up and you are on the same list as T206 is and you miss it all.

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03-20-2007 08:48 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Frank EvanovI too have found Kevin to be of great assistance in some of my card purchases. Without compensation, he has advised me on graded cards which have been expertly altered. I will, however, take issue with his 15% alteration rate. PSA, SGC and GAI have graded something like 15 million cards. That would leave 2 million bad cards out there in slabs. I don't see how the card docs, working day and night, could ever possibly alter that many cards. Frank

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03-20-2007 09:12 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: JohnThen I feel it's only fair to warn you no Wonka....no Noodle Kaboodle!

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03-20-2007 09:32 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Neal Kane15% of all slabbed cards are altered? Nah. I ain't buyin it ... with all due respect Kevin. Like many others, I believe that you are talented but that number seems ridiculous.

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03-20-2007 09:52 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Al C.risafulliPeter: Sometimes it feels like the values of cards DO drop by the hour after I purchased them. I've been giving your question a lot of thought, and although I do not consider myself an investor in this hobby (if I am an investor, I'm an awfully bad one), I do think that if the values of cards continued to decline, I probably would make a few subtle changes in my collecting habits. First, I would want to recover some of the cash I have invested in my '38 Goudey set. So if I saw prices declining rapidly, I'd probably sell that set as quickly as I could - not because I don't love the cards, but because I sure have spent a lot of money on them. Second, I may "repurpose" some of what I collect. I've always liked larger-format cards with photography - cards like Exhibits, R314s, and the like. I have shied away from them due to the fact that I don't generally like building sets. But if prices changed dramatically, I'd be interested in making a run at sets like that. Third, I really do like 1952 Bowmans. I'd probably try and build a set of those in high grade. Lastly, I'd probably go after some more difficult large-format cards like W600s, M110s, and other cabinets. I really do love cards like that - they're very pleasing to me, but a little steep for my current card budget in most cases. Sorry to have hijacked the thread. -Al

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03-20-2007 10:16 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Kevin"15% of all slabbed cards are altered? Nah. I ain't buyin it ... with all due respect Kevin." You're right, me neither. Let me restate; 15% of vintage cards that I have inspected (which is quite a few). Wouldn't make much sense considering all the cards from, let say, 1975 on up that are in slabs. "The only thing he failed to mention is how short Kevin really is." Yes, a towering 5'5" but I have a trash can lid and not afraid to use it <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.

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03-21-2007 05:00 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: JimCrandellKevin, Do you think in terms of percentages more prewar cards have been altered? Sorry I got tied up--will try again today. Jim

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03-21-2007 10:10 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoAl, Actually, your post is only one of a few that have been on point. At least your honest in stating that you would like to get your money back. A lot of people say they would hold on through thick and thin. However, a lot of times the market doesn't have to change much to change their minds. This is a new year and I propose a truce. Perhaps we can't create peace in the Middle East but let's at least be civil to each other on this board. Peter

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03-21-2007 10:40 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Jason LPeace in the middle East is closer than peace on this Board! Actually, in 2007, I would settle for a gentle unwinding of the collective institutional overweight in the energy sector, as opposed to a capitulatory event that removes the speculative excess in the commodity and shocks the system...But hey, I would take peace in the Middle East too! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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03-21-2007 10:52 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: ChadI'd still collect. I'd probably pick a couple of sets to work on and then supplement that with cards/players I just think are cool. I'd love to be able to collect 19th century stuff, but it's impossible right now. So, until everyone else picks up their ball and goes home, I'll stick to working on my Negro League master set which has become very rewarding in itself. --Chad

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03-21-2007 12:21 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe PelaezThat's what Slab World contributed to the Hobby. It created The MARK -- et. Which brought in The MARKS. AKA the investor/numerologist = easy Marks for The MARK -- et. True collectors will ride out any crash, simply because they're not disciples of ..... Da MARK -- et. Dear God. For what we're about to receive. Make us truly thankful. ... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Edited the word tryly to truly, but for some strange reason, tryly looks better.

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03-21-2007 12:31 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: JimCrandellPeter, Thank you--one can only pray that the attackers will stop soon for the health of the board.

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03-23-2007 06:06 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoGuys, I don't expect a catastrophic drop in the card market any time soon. So this exercise has been purely academic. I plan to continue to add to my prewar card collection indefinitely into the future. Regular price adjustments should have little effect on my collecting habits. Peter

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03-24-2007 02:03 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe Pelaezpeter chao March 18 2007, 2:41 PM Modern Cards Would Also Drop Well if the prewar stuff dropped then the modern card market would probably follow. I would stop collecting both. Peter * * Will the real Peter Chao ... PLEASE STAND UP. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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03-24-2007 12:59 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoJoe, I'm a 100% committed to the Hobby. Kind of. For the normal ups and downs of the market it's not a problem, I'm committed to finishing off my '33 Goudey and other sets that I've started. But who knows, if the market seriously gets out of whack I'd rather not deal with it. It's sort of like practicing law, who wants a whacko client. As a matter of fact, I'd probably spend more time practicing law and less time posting if it weren't for some of my semi-whacko clients. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Peter

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03-24-2007 01:26 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe Pelaez<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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03-24-2007 01:46 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoJoe, I love it...if you were on the Titanic and it was going down for the last time...you would probably be still sorting your cards. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> I'm sure that you must sell or trade away some of your cards once in a while otherwise your bedroom would be in bigger mess than mine and I can't quite imagine that. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Peter

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03-24-2007 03:54 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Kevin Saucier In that situation it would be best to sort through Titanic cards <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <a href="http://www.titanicitems.com/pics.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.titanicitems.com/pics.htm</a> going down for the last time..? (LOL)

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03-24-2007 04:03 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe Pelaez"Joe, I love it...if you were on the Titanic and it was going down for the last time...you would probably be still sorting your cards. " * * You're probably right. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Slowly, but ever so slowly, you'll learn the difference between a sicko collector, and a disciple of Da - MARKet. Your description of a market collector is perfect. It has more to do with the stock market, than it does with a HOBBY. Amigo, what you are failing to understand is that I got involved with cards to get away from the rat race of da MARKet. I wanted to collect for the enjoyment of it, and strictly for the sublimation it gave me. The last thing that I wanted was to make it part of my portfolio. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ---------------------------------------------- "I'm sure that you must sell or trade away some of your cards once in a while otherwise your bedroom would be in bigger mess than mine and I can't quite imagine that. " Peter * * Peter, I once traded a T217 Mono for another Mono with Mr. Chericone, and this is gonna really knock your Market mindset off. ... I've never sold a card. Boy am I sick. .... is there a doctor in the house. Better yet, .. get me Dr. House. About my bedroom, ..... wanna bet? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Back to the Titanic. Can anyone tell me how I can keep my cards dry? Joe

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03-25-2007 08:51 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoJoe, You probably don't want to think of yourself as part of the vintage card market, but you are, if guys like you weren't around the cards would be pretty close to worthless. As long as the serious and passionate collector is around, the supply of vintage cards will continue to become more limited and prices will continue to trend up. So I want to thank you and others who help make my collecting and investing more enjoyable. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Peter

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03-25-2007 03:37 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe PelaezYou still don't get it. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> You said: "As long as the serious and passionate collector is around, the supply of vintage cards will continue to become more limited and prices will continue to trend up." * * Peter, do you really believe that? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Just look at this board. There's nothing wrong with it, but you can't deny that this forum is predominantly a price oriented board. How much? Who grades best? Is this a 5 or a 3? The questions are valid, but again let's be honest, they represent the Wall Street Journal more than Lipset's encyclopedias. This may come as a shock to you, but the only time that this forum gives the appearance of being a pre WWI card forum, is when the handfull of collectors on this board talk about the actual cards, and not the "How much?" The fact is, speculators and investors outnumber collectors on this board. Again I say, nothing what so ever wrong with that, .. but I can't help thinking that maybe a 1929 baseball card crash might not be so bad. Speculators can go back to the Wall Street Journal, and collectors can go back to having collector like fun. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> It would be like putting the "H" back in the Hobby. Please Do Not wake me up, I'm beginning to like this dream. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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03-25-2007 08:18 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoJoe, I agree with you but my point was that the earnest collector (people like you) were the ones that created the market by collecting and holding when others thought vintage cards were worthless pieces of cardboard. You guys are also the brake when speculators and investors decide to sell. Thus your role in the vintage market is extremely important. Peter

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03-25-2007 09:09 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoJoe, A secondary point I'd like to make is that not all collectors think the increasing value of their collection is a hindrance. Personally, I bought 4 T206 Hall of Famers during the past two years. So far, they have gone up a 100%, I do not expect them to continue going up at that rate but I appreciate that and it adds to my enjoyment of collecting and I do not consider it a hindrance. Since, you've been collecting T206's much longer than I have, I suspect your collection is worth at least 5-10 times the money you put into it. Why is that a negative. Also, other people would be fools not to invest and speculate. Who knows among the investors and speculators there may also be some people who will become serious collectors. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Peter

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03-25-2007 09:22 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Cobby33In large part, what Joe says, I believe, is accurate. If the Vintage market "adjusts," I would be willing to bet the demand for cards people buy to enjoy would remain steady (or increase) and the high-grade, high-dollar (just to be high-dollar) cards would lower. If you think about it, do people spend large amounts of money on high-grade cards because they have an expensive fettish for nicer-looking cards; or because there's a perception that they will appreciate at a higher rate? I would guess the latter. This phenonemon is no different than most any investment of tangible goods. It is also a truism that without the draw of flipping cards for a quick (large) profit, the "epidemic" of altering, cheating, etc. would wane as well- it simply wouldn't be worth it. Then we'll have nothing to talk about.

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03-25-2007 10:15 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoCobby, Your right there's an epidemic of cheating and that is a negative brought on by those who want to take a short cut, guys who are not satisfied with 20% annual increases. However, the investment mentality also encouraged the growth of card graders and so far they have done a decent job of controlling the epidemic. So ironically, the investment mentality may have saved the hobby and the internet has brought the hobby to more people. So the impact of investors may not be that negative. Peter

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03-25-2007 10:31 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Cobby33Peter- I agree. I think overall, the investors help the hobby. I was merely pointing out what may happen in an overall adjustment. But I do agree with your learned points.

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03-25-2007 11:29 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Dan BrettaCount me among the people who would love to see the market hit bottom on prewar cards...not that it will ever happen. I don't own a single card in a slab. I will take Poor/Fair cards all day long -I will take ex/mint cards if I could, but on my long ago abandoned shot at the Monster ($ to Bill Heitman) I had cards ranging in all grades and I never looked to upgrade - it was just filling holes and once it was filled it was filled. I much prefer learning about the guys on the cardboard than flipping for profit. That's a whole other game and I have nothing against anyone who does that because I know a lot of people do that to finance their hobby and they are very good at it - it's just not the way I approach the hobby. Nearly all of my focus is collecting items that I view as companion pieces to the research and resulting knowledge of the game I love. Now with all that gibberish out of the way....if I had unlimited funds and it didn't matter that the market is very high and buying a PSA1-2 Wagner would be the same as the average guy buying a hamburger I would go absoulutely crazy - My focus would expand to include set building of every major set pre-WW2. Every member of this board would hate me. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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03-25-2007 11:33 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe PelaezPeter, every one of your points, only points out my point that points out and proves that you are an Investor in Denial. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Even your fellow speculators will agree to the fact that it was the graders that created the cardboard MARKet. Why are you always the last to get the word? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Elated that you cornered your 4 T206 HOF's. Tell me, when you called your investment broker, did you tell him to add them to your portfolio with the U S Steel stock, or that you're adding a new word to the investment lingo. You are now collecting stocks. Peter, an investor in denial is not a crime, you've already come out of the closet on that point. Believe me, I don't give a rats @ss if your T206 stock goes up or down. What you fail to grasp is the simple fact that you and I have a totally different mindset about the cardboard. Simply stated, my fun and joy is filling an empty slot in a binder. Whereas your fun and joy is the upside of the T206 MARKet. As a matter of fact, I have archived where you said that if the card stock MARKet took a dive, you would stop investing in cardboard. Now here's the part where you have difficulties in understanding. Being that the ups and down of your stock MARKet was never part of my game plan, if your MARKet takes a dive, I would continue to try to fill an empty slot in the binder. Peter, There's an old movie called "Born Yesterday." In it, Broderick Crawford has a classic line with a young William Holden. "Never crap a crapper." During those days, among other things, you weren't allowed to use the word "Bull Sh!t." <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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03-26-2007 08:40 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoJoe, Dan has a more balanced approach to the hobby. You keep on insisting that I am only an investor, whereas I consider myself an investor-collector. Granted I may not be as serious a collector as you are but I am concerned about what happens to the hobby. Only in extreme conditions would I sell my core collection of 200 cards. I do not plan on going down with the ship, I would rather try to save a little of my money and put it into something more enjoyable. Perhaps a true collector would rather collect cards than eat, I would rather eat and find other things to enjoy in life. It may sound crazy but some of us believe that there is more to life than baseball cards. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Peter

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03-26-2007 09:20 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Al C.risafulliOh, good. I was trying to find out where I should go in order to find out where on the spectrum of "seriousness" I am as a collector. Looks like I've found the place. Can't wait to find out how legitimate I am. Can someone please tell me how to download the forms I have to fill out, and who I need to forward them to? -Al

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03-26-2007 09:49 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: dennisyou know you're an investor when you start threads like this one.

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03-26-2007 11:43 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoDennis, I never said I was just a collector, but I resent it when you serious collectors say that I can not also be a collector. I still remember walking around the neighborhood to collect coke bottles so that I could buy another box of Topps Wax Packs so that I could complete my series. However, I was never patient enough to complete a set of Topps. Then recently I finished a set of '57 Topps including the Baker error in ungraded EX-MT condition. One day I would like to have a master set. And Joe doesn't take it seriously when I say the collector is the foundation for the market. Let's put it this way as an investor I feel much more comfortable knowing that there's a group of serious collectors out there that will buy when the market is dropping like a rock. I'm comforted by the fact that the market would eventually turn around. Peter

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03-26-2007 12:52 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Cobby33200!

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03-26-2007 05:30 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe PelaezLet me ponder the imponderable.

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03-26-2007 05:35 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe PelaezA collector and a speculator? A Wall Street Journal card speculator? A sicko Lipset encyclopedia card collector? Both in the same body? Hmmn? Ya know Peter, I think you may have something there. This may be before your time, but a few years back, there were a couple of movies about this sort of thing. One was called "The Three Faces of Eve, and the other one was called Sybil. It was about multiple personalities. The Sybil one, was about 5, 6 or possibly more personalities. I am finding your claim of both being a speculator, and a collector very disappointing. Disappointing in the fact, that in comparison to Eve and Sybil, ... you're an underachiever. Then again, ..... you're a speculator. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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03-26-2007 05:41 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Frank EvanovAnd Joe doesn't take it seriously when I say the collector is the foundation for the market. Let's put it this way as an investor I feel much more comfortable knowing that there's a group of serious collectors out there that will buy when the market is dropping like a rock. I'm comforted by the fact that the market would eventually turn around. Are you saying that we are the backbone of the hobby?<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Frank

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03-26-2007 06:16 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanFrank, I waited all day for someone to say that. It was particularly painful to stifle myself for all these hours.

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03-26-2007 07:15 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoFrank, Joe Absolutely, you guys are "the backbone of the hobby." But you guys need to give the investor speculator a little credit, they are bringing new money and new blood into the hobby. The way I see it is I earned my money the old fashion way and I should be able to collect, invest, or speculate the way I want. Just like your free to collect the way you want. And I do not apologize for energizing the market and putting money in the pockets of the collectors if they wish to sell their cards. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Peter

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03-26-2007 07:25 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: leonarmpits....ARMPIT COLLECTORS UNITE !!

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03-26-2007 08:00 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: RC McKenzieFound this e98 red background hofer Evers on the pinksheets for $34. Provenance: 'Sara'... <img src="http://i20.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/93/4b/350f_1.JPG">

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03-26-2007 09:18 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe PelaezHow dare you. We're talking MARK et here. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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03-27-2007 06:00 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: barrysloatePeter- if you wish to collect baseball cards with an eye on their investment potential, I don't think you have to apologize to anyone. "Investment" is treated as a taboo word around here but the fact is cards have appreciated tremendously over the past five years. If you make some money and have some fun with it along the way, it's nobody's business. There have been numerous people on the board who have said they would love to see the market collapse so that they could buy many of the cards they can't afford today. I am one of those who feel a market collapse would be a bad thing. Nothing wrong with a little stability and less volatility, but a collapse could put me out of business and add tremendous stress to the lives of many collectors.

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03-27-2007 08:44 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Al C.risafulliWe're remodeling our kitchen. We're doing it because our existing kitchen needs updating - we don't like the cabinets, the tile, or the appliances, and would like to update them all. We're also utilizing the space better, getting more effective cabinetry, creating a work area for the kids to do homework, and getting a better oven. We'd like the kitchen to be a unique area, easier to work in than it is now, and better capable of meeting the needs of our family. It is costing a lot of money. We're not doing it because it will increase the value of our home, as we have no intention of selling our home any time soon. However, it's nice to know that some portion of the investment that we're making WILL increase the home's value, and that we'll be able to capture some of the dollars we put into it in the event that we decide to sell the house someday. So. We're doing it because we'd really like to have a more contemporary kitchen. But there is money involved, and so we're trying to be smart about the expense, so that when the time comes, we've added to the value of our home. Is that bad? -Al

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03-27-2007 09:30 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: barrysloateIt's not only not bad (double negative), but it's actually the smart thing to do. I'm sure as a family you spend a lot of time in the kitchen, so you will be able to enjoy the finished product. And it is reasonable to assume that one day you will in fact sell the house, so you've made a good investment. To follow the comparison, why can't a baseball card be a collectable, an antiquity, a piece of baseball history, and an investment all at the same time?

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03-27-2007 09:49 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Al C.risafulliThat's what I'm saying, Barry, exactly. The other day I replaced my SGC 40 T206 Eddie Collins (Piedmont) with an SGC 40 Eddie Collins (EPDG). I want as many T206 HOFers with tougher backs as possible, and so I "upgraded" within the grade. I also just replaced my PSA 6 1938 Goudey Jimmy Foxx with a nicer PSA 5, because to me, the 5 is a nicer-looking card. Both of those purchases cost real money - a few hundred dollars in total. As much as I'd like to pay for my baseball cards in toothpicks, sellers don't like receiving toothpicks. So I have to pay money. If I'm going to be conscious of how much I spend, but still acquire the cards I'd like to add to my collection, I need to consider what other people would pay for them as well. So when I go out an spend $200 on an E121 HOFer because it has a Henry Johnson back, I've got to know that I'm not the only knucklehead in the hobby who's willing to pay that much money for the card. Because if the engine falls out of my car and I need to come up with some quick cash without selling a kidney, I could sell my H-J backs to someone. I just don't understand why that's a bad thing. -Al

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03-27-2007 10:06 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoGuys, We pretty much agree that the money part is not necessarily bad. Also, there are some who blame the investors and speculators for the trimmed and colored cards. That is also unfair. Investors and speculators may take a gamble on the market but they want to get their money fairly. Thieves and counterfeiters are simply attracted by the money. They don't care beans about the hobby and kids. They don't care about who they screw, they probably think counterfeiting bills are too dangerous because the feds will go after them. So they counterfeit baseball cards. The hobby needs to work together to stop counterfeiters. We need to work with the graders and the law enforcement people. Peter

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03-27-2007 10:09 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Josh AdamsAl, It's not bad at all. There seems to be an air of superiority among some collectors here who think that if you want your cards to appreciate in value, then you're not a "true collector." That couldn't be farther from the truth. I don't like speaking for other people, but I do like collecting and love cards. It's a great escape. But I'd be fooling myself if I said I do not care whether my cards increase in value in the future. That's just plain silly. It doesn't make me any less of a collector than those who hold disdain for slabbing (we get it, you guys don't like it, ok!). And why is there a negative connotation to being a speculator? I speculate on alot of different areas, but I'm still a collector. It's what each person does that makes them happy and enjoy this hobby that matters. Trying to say one person is a "true" collector is, well, kinda childish, and I thought we left that on the playground. But then again, I could be wrong. Speculators, investors, collectors, armpits and backbones, unite! Go Go White Sox 2005 World Series Champions!

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03-27-2007 10:12 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Al C.risafulliA lot of the trimmed cards in the prewar arena have nothing whatsoever to do with investors and deception. A lot of trimmed T and E cards were trimmed in the 70s and 80s by collectors who just wanted their cards to fit better in the plastic sheets that were available at the time. Deception had nothing to do with it. It was done for aesthetic, storage and display reasons. Unfortunately we're living with it now, because if we want untrimmed cards in our collection, we have to be vigilant about identifying cards that were trimmed down 30 years ago, and are often tougher to detect than cards that were trimmed two weeks ago by a card doctor looking to get a T206 into an 8 holder. -Al

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03-27-2007 10:14 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: barrysloateI think what makes the baseball card market so fluid is it is so many things at the same time. There are many aspects of it that draw people in, and not everyone collects cards for the same reason. So what (with deference to Miles Davis).

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03-27-2007 10:24 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Al C.risafulliI prefer the sax to the trumpet, so I'll defer to Coltrane and Rollins. It's about time we started talking about music in this thread. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> -Al

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03-27-2007 10:31 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: barrysloateJohn Coltrane plays with Miles on "So What." You can check it out on youtube. Just type in "Miles Davis So What" and you will see Miles and Trane trading off solos. Must see video!!

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03-27-2007 10:32 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Eric BrehmHere is the basic riff. It is the two chords at the end of each phrase that, when played on the piano or by harmonized brass instruments, are suggestive of a person saying the words "so what," perhaps in a slightly derogatory manner: <img src="http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/ebrehm1/so_what.gif">

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03-27-2007 10:34 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: barrysloateEric- I can't read music so I am going to have to take your word on this one. "Kind of Blue" is the greatest selling jazz album in history and it was done I believe in one take without rehearsal! Musicians were just given a general idea of what to play and the rest was improvised on the spot.

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03-27-2007 10:36 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoIt would be great to have Stevie Wonder chime in on the piano. Peter

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03-27-2007 11:02 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Eric BrehmStevie would have done a good job, although jazz wasn't really his bag. The piano on the original recording was played by the late great Bill Evans.

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03-27-2007 11:05 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: barrysloateBill Evans also wrote the wonderful liner notes for the album, about Japanese art on parchment, comparing it to the process of musical innovation.

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03-27-2007 11:22 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Al C.risafulliCan't talk about jazz piano - even just three posts - without mentioning Monk. Monk. -Al

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03-27-2007 11:25 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: barrysloateMonk may be my favorite of all, both for his eccentric personality and style of playing. He was a troubled genius who stopped playing in the last decade of his life for no other reason than he no longer wished to play.

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03-27-2007 11:27 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Max WederSome threads here definitely require Phillip Glass

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03-27-2007 12:57 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe PelaezThe sounds should have high jacked this thread right after it was started. I can't play a note of music, but I've always loved the sounds. In one of my former lives, I had the great pleasure and honor to be involved with two Duke Ellington productions. His first "Sacred Concert" (Dec. 26 1965) in NYC, and his "Sold on Soul" AKA a "Salute to the Duke" (Feb. 23 1970) at Madison Square Garden. The Salute to the Duke gig, would have blown your mind. The master of ceremonies: Sammy Davis Junior. Louis Armstrong. Richie Havens. Peggy Lee. Les MC Cann Trio. The Dance Theatre of Harlem. Irene Cara. Leslie Uggams. Stevie Wonder. Ray Charles. Joyce Bryant. The Modern Jazz Quartet. Roberta Flack. The Clark Terry Orchestra. B B King. Jimmy Rushing. Eubie Blake. Noble Sissle. Joya Sherril, with the Duke Ellington band. This is not from memory, ... I cheated. I'm looking at my old work sheet. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Needless to say, Mad. Sqr. Garden was the place to be that night. Takin off now, gotta catch the "A" train.

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03-27-2007 12:59 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Al C.risafulliThe Constitution, jazz, and baseball. -Al

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03-27-2007 01:16 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoI love the sound of jazz as the sun goes down. Even hard-core collectors need to kick back once in a while. Peter

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03-27-2007 01:19 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Eric BrehmYes, jazz music, like baseball, is something America can claim as its very own invention. A wedding of African musical sense and European instruments that could only have happened here.

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04-04-2007 01:15 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoOkay Guys, I'm sure that a forum member would know this. Which year did they first play, "Take Me Out to The Ballgame." I have no idea that's why I'm asking you guys. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Peter

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04-04-2007 01:17 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Dave F<a href="http://www.baseball-almanac.com/poetry/po_stmo.shtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseball-almanac.com/poetry/po_stmo.shtml</a>

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04-04-2007 01:26 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoDave, 1908. Thanks. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Peter

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04-04-2007 02:12 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe PelaezJust trying to help Peter. Lyle ... Where are you? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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04-05-2007 12:46 PM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: peter chaoYou Cub haters out there, it's all a conspiracy. Well...I'll have you know the Cubs are only 1 1/2 games out of first place. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Peter

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04-06-2007 02:50 AM

Let's Be Frank, Actually My Name Is Peter...

Posted By: Joe PelaezJust tryin to help Peter. Lyle, ... whhhere the hell are you? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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