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Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>Abeer Qassim Hamza*<br /><br />*Let's not forget.
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Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p><font color=blue>Dan -- Thanks for your sacrifice for our country.<br /><br />Peter -- Just when I think you can't possibly say anything more stupid or bizarre than you already have, you go ahead and floor me.</font><br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com
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Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>Are you kidding me? Again, for every one bad story that is out there, there are hundreds of stories of good that we are doing there. In your one statement, let's not forget, you have just completely discarded everything else. <br /><br />These particular soldiers were criminal in their actions and are certainly being held accountable now:<br /><br />"All five belonged to the 101st Airborne Division based at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, which is also where the hearing took place. Military investigators believe that Green and as many as four other soldiers were involved in the commission of the murders while on active duty. A criminal affidavit filed in U.S. federal court states that Green and one other participant raped Hamza and that Green killed all four individuals himself. Abeer's uncle, Ahmad, says he has "no faith" in the Court Martial, requesting that the Americans "hand the criminals to us, to an Iraqi Court. We don't trust their justice, they should be tried here in Iraq."[1]<br /><br />Iraqi insurgents kidnapped two American troops whom they later killed, claiming that the killing was retaliation for Abeer's rape.[1]<br /><br />Army Sgt. Paul Cortez was sentenced Thursday, February 22, 2007 to 100 years in prison for his participation in the rape and murder. Cortez, 24, also was given a dishonorable discharge. Cortez wept as he apologized for the crimes, saying he could not explain why he took part.<br /><br />Specialist James Barker , 24, admitted rape and murder over the killings and was jailed for 90 years."<br /><br />So, did you skip right over the part in your "reading from your computer desk, safely in your home" that Iraqi insurgents KIDNAPPED TWO AMERICAN TROOPS AND KILLED THEM????? These were two innocent soldiers that had NOTHING to do with this murder and rape situation.<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dan- I think we can learn more about the war from you than any newspaper or television report. And while we are off topic, I am reading everything you say very carefully. Please keep the information coming, if you feel up to it. Thank you.
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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Dan, <br /><br />Stay strong over there brother. Most people have no idea what is going on over there, they only know what they see on TV or read in a newspaper.<br /><br />Chao...you can't be serious? Why don't you go back to posting about your handful of pre-war cards or another OT post about who was better than who or how you make $400 an hour but can't afford any cards. What a joke.<br /><br />Can't spell Chao without Cho, now that was a good one Jeff.
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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Dan,<br /> Thanks again for your service and your comments as I agree whole heartedly. If you want to know what's really going on in Iraq, spend some time talking to the fine young men and women protecting our freedom. I have talked to hundreds of soldiers over the last 3 years, and to a man or woman, they support our efforts and believe we are making a huge difference. Spend a little time in any airport and you can buy them a Beer or a sandwich and thank them on a personal level. I promise you will come away feeling proud of the men and women who represent and protect the US so well. Be well Brian
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Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>All I want to say is that it is not a good situation all the way around and sadly enough, our soldiers whom are coming home are coming home is a similar way as our veterans of Vietnam did... forgotten. It is just not right. <br /><br />We are not there because we desire to be there, it is our mission to be there and as military life goes, we go where they tell us to go. All we ask in the process is that our American breathren get behind us and support what we are doing no matter what the cause is if that is where our Government wants us to be. <br /><br />That being said, we as citizens always have the right to question our Government and that is one of the things that makes our Country so wonderful. But by all means, don't just sit and complain, do something about it. If any of you do not like our boys being over there, make your voices heard and do something about it. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! <br /><br />I personally love this Country and am proud of what we stand for. I have traveled to places like Iraq, Djibouti Africa and the Gaza Strip and until you see fear in peoples faces, you can never truly understand what I mean here. We are lucky, we are so very lucky in the US and that is why people hate us so badly. We have freedom and we can pursue happiness, it is all up to us. But, you cannot make change from the safe confines of your house, you have to go out and make a difference, you must inspire others to inspire others and so on, in order to affect change.<br /><br />Remember this guy? If nothing else, we removed a tyrant from power and saved countless lives because of it.<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1177188713.JPG"> <br /><br />One question you have to ask yourself in regard to whether or not there were WMD's before this last one started, how much time would it take to move that stuff to a place called Syria?
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dan- do you feel the U.S. should have an exit strategy? The war is going on for more than four years and there is no end in sight, and by the time it is done it could cost us a trillion dollars. Is it worth all that?
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Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>I am not there now, thank God. I am serving in Italy and that is as close to this stuff as I want to be for a little while. <br /><br />Please do not thank me folks, this is great stuff, I do appreciate it but there are certainly many others out there that deserve and warrant your thanks, there is that veteran down the street, or that old gentleman that you see occassionally, thank them. <br /><br />If you want to make a difference quickly, go visit a VA hospital and speak with some of the folks down there. They need to hear from you all, they need to see that their sacrifices were worth it and that the people of our great Country stand behind them and love them as they love their Country. <br /><br /><i></i> Barry, when I get in to work on Monday, I will search out a fantastic story that I recently received and post it for all of you to read. It is wonderful and speaks about your question of an exit strategy and how things are looking there. It is enlightening to say the least. In short, my opinion... of course, all missions should have an exit strategy, now that is only my opinion.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I think what saddens me the most about our country right now is that the Democrats and Republicans are almost willing to root against our country if it will result in harm to the other party. You can hate George Bush all you want, that doesn't mean that he is a homicidal maniac who enjoys killing children. You can hate Nancy Pelosi all you want, that doesn't mean that she wants to have Bin Laden's baby (though in fairness to Bin Laden - I'm not certain he'd be interested in that deal either). In essence, each side wants what is best for our country -- they just have different views on how to go about it. That doesn't make one side evil and the other side good. There's a lot of grey area there on both sides.<br /><br />The best part about 9/11 (actually the only good part) was the fact that for a brief period of time in NYC we were all one. The haves, the have nots, black, white, Dems, Republicans; we were all one, united. Our politicians managed to act as one, too, for a period of time. Keep in mind that people become politicians oftentimes out of an incredible ambitious desire to be in power, for no other reason - not even to help our society. I hate politicians. <br /><br />We're in a tough period of our history right now, with Islamic fundamentalists plotting to kill us in every inch of the globe. Now is not the time for stupidity and selfishness. Now is the time to really band together as one and fix the mess we're in, not just point fingers and say 'we could do it better' solely to garner a few more votes.<br /><br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Politicians will never band together as one, and are even less likely to do so with an election coming up. My guess is the run for the presidency will be among the ugliest in history.<br /><br />People can band together as one, but not our elected leaders.
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Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />That is absolutely 100% correct! AMEN! Now, how do the people take this and turn it in to something we can use? If only I had that answer. I think that if someone running for office stood up on a platform driven by this logic, they would be very succesful. What is also sad is that the independant's are not taken seriously, why do we need a Democrat or Republican in the White House, Senate, House of Representatives, Governors office, Mayor's office, etc. What we need are strong people whom have the people as their main concern. <br /><br />We call this a Soldier's Soldier or a Sailor's Sailor, etc, meaning it is someone who cares for all of those subordinate to him/her. In this caring for them, they see their entire purpose is to protect and fight for the needs of those subordinate. This is what we need. <br /><br />When you kiss your babies goodnight tonight, think of this child and his bed and thank God for all that you hold dear and safe. His bed, a blanket on the floor, oh by the way, there was no door to close in the doorway and no windows to close in the opening where the windows once were. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1177190418.JPG">
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Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p><i>My guess is the run for the presidency will be among the ugliest in history.<br /></i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/vfp/images/Hillary.jpg"><br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com
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Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1177190637.JPG">
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>It's ugly all over....<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1177190891.JPG">
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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Barry,<br /> While I agree that our leaders will not come together as they should at this time, they have in the past laid party politics aside for the greater good. I think the best example is when Wendell Wilkie went to England to meet with Churchill after losing a very bitter election with FDR. Wilkie was against getting into the war and against FDR's policies, but he put that aside and represented the President in a very key time and place. Too bad Speaker Pelosi couldn't follow the same path. Be well Brian<br /><br />PS I encourage everyone who can to attend a service at Arlington, or visit your local VA, so you can appreciate the sacrifices being made.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>David- where did you dig up that picture? Pretty funny. I'm not a big Hillary fan, but there are slim pickings for 2008.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Brian- you are talking about an era that no longer exists. There was a time when politicians were great men. That's an anachronism today. And we may never see it again.
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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Too funny Vargha!<br /><br />I agree with most of what Jeff has to say, but I don't agree that they are doing what they think is in the best interests of this country. I think they are trying to win elections. Plain and simple. Politics is a game and they are playing a game with our men and women who THEY send abroad. Pretty disgusting how they flip-flop and ride the polls. Bush may not be the smartest guy, but at least he has some b*lls.
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Dan, David, guys<br /><br />I deserve all the flack your throwing my way. I hated making the analogy myself. Remember, I think that Mr. Cho is a madman just as much as you do.<br /><br />But people conveniently forget that the Iraq war was really over in a couple of days. The U.S. simply bombed the key military targets and lots of innocent lives were lost.<br /><br />The terrorists aren't afraid of us, but our allies certainly are.<br /><br />I hope that all U.S. soldiers will be home soon both safe and sound.<br /><br />I'm probably way off base. That happens when I've spent 8 years at Cal at Berkeley and spent another 20 plus years practicing law in the Bay Area.<br /><br />I would like to see the U.S. continue it's reign as a superpower but it's difficult to see how that's going to continue when half the world is afraid of us and the other half hates us.<br /><br />We are surely lucky that we have the natural resources that we have and the technology that we have. But once we take the position that "power makes us right." We start losing our role as leaders and our moral compass. And our nation will decay just like other modern superpowers have.<br /><br />Also, our nation will also serve as bad example for our youth, who start thinking that there are times when preemptive war is justified. In my humble opinion it never is, whether we are speaking about nations or madmen like Mr. Cho.<br /><br />Peter
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Paul, true. I sometimes imagine what it must be like inside a politician's war room when they have to decide what the candidate's position on an issue is. Focus groups are arranged, polls taken, demographics looked at. Eventually whatever the handlers think will get the candidate elected is the position that he or she eventually takes. What the candidate thinks in his heart or head on the issue? Not pertinent.
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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>Mr. Chao -- first it was Barry Bonds with a gun, now it's Iraq. Why do you persist in polluting a thread that should be simply about grieving for and respecting the victims of a senseless act of murder with lunatic analogies? Why? What is the point? Are you deliberately trying to be provocative? If so this is a really inappropriate thread for such nonsense. This tragedy has nothing to do with sports. It has nothing to do with Iraq, whatever one's views on that conflict. Period.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jeff- you are correct that there are no longer any fresh ideas. Politicians do just look for a position that won't offend and will garner the most votes, something bland and safe. That's why so many Americans have become disillusioned with the process, myself included. When I watch a presidential debate it's as about exciting as watching them pump gas. Obama looks like the candidate most willing to take a risk, but I don't think he can win. Too young, not enough experience, middle name Hussein, last name rhymes with Osama- it won't fly.
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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>All that notwithstanding, do we really think this country is ready for a non-Caucasian, non-male president?
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Of course not. People from NYC and California sometimes forget that there are other parts of the country that matter.
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Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p><i>All that notwithstanding, do we really think this country is ready for a non-Caucasian, non-male president?</i><br /><br /><font color=blue>I wouldn't vote for Hillary or Obama, but I'd vote for Condoleeza Rice.</font><br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Condoleeza isn't running, is she? Smart woman, but a little too close to Bush. Don't think she would have much of a chance either.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Colin Powell would actually have a chance.<br /><br />I'm convinced that Al Gore will make a late entry after most of the primary mud has been slung (God knows that Hilary is prepared to throw a record number amount of mud this year - she is such a lovely woman).
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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>So since Geo. W. is the same as Geo., Sr., having Rice would translate to 16-20 years of Geo., Sr. That's comforting <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Who said "the only thing we learn from history is that we do not learn?" Earl Warren?
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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>I don't think Gore runs unless the party is really in disarray. It would be too humiliating for him to end his political career not even being able to capture the nomination.
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Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>Dan, thanks for the pictures and for your service. It reminds of a story that an old Korean man told me. My friend, Mr. Chung, grew up in Korea under brutal occupation by the Japanese and was still very young when Korea was liberated by the Allies. Mr. Chung compared Japanese troops to American troops as follows: When a Japanese soldier made the slightest move out of the ordinary any child that was nearby would run away at full speed because they fully expected to get hit with a fist or gun butt. When an American soldier made the same move he would be mobbed by children because they thought he was about to give away candy or a toy.<br /><br />Doesn't really have anything to do with this thread but I think it illustrates a trait of the American soldier that still exists today.<br /><br />Howard
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter, he's never been more popular. I doubt he'll get a chance that he has right now. Hilary and Obama? He can beat both.
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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>Jeff, it's easy to be popular sitting on the sidelines and winning an Oscar and championing the environment. It's the Colin Powell phenomenon -- the outsider, the noncandidate always looks better than the folks in the race spouting platitudes and slinging mud. But once in the race he too has to spout platitudes and sling mud, and I think he loses a lot of that aura he has now. I am not saying he can't win, but I think given his ego he will only run if it is close to a sure thing.
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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p> Hi Jeff,<br /> I agree Powell could win, but he would never enter the race. He doesn't want to be president, and he doesn't want his views on record. Be well Brian<br /><br />PS You may dislike Bush/Cheney, but at least you know where they stand. Personally I'd like to see what the historians say about them in 50 years... Lincoln wasn't popular for a very long time, in fact he was seen as a huge failure.
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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>I'm assuming we're not comparing Bush to Lincoln - only the postmortem popularity? I sure hope so!
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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Piggybacking on what Brian said...I think Lincoln's approval rating was something like 17%. If CNN had covered the Civil War...or WWII for that matter...this would be a much different place for sure. In order to win a war you almost have to deceive the public. It's disgusting, but true. <br /><br />When is Jeff going to be running for office? Any guesses? <br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Paul, um, my list of clients makes it impossible for me to get into a co-op in Manhattan. I doubt I could get elected dog catcher.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Brian- I have absolutely no idea where Bush and Cheney stand, because they almost never tell the truth.<br /><br />I predict nobody wins in 2008, and for four years the people run the country. But I do like Gore (I know, he won't win either).
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>PS: Two guys I'd love to see run for President because I actually think they care, are competent and are not slimy pigs: Bill Bradley and Mike Bloomberg. Bradley is a good and decent man and very bright; Bloomberg has done about a 10x better job than Rudy ever did as Mayor - and he's completely self-made, could care less about popular political positions and is an incredible leader.
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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Doesn't really matter whether he wins or not, does it? Apparently that's not enough... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jeff- what do you think about Richardson (forgot his first name), the governor of New Mexico? He seems like a pretty cool guy.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Bill Richardson.<br /><br />I love his state. There's a great spa there called Ten Thousand Waves. I think he's got the portfolio and experience for sure but he just can't seem to make a splash.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Do you know you used "ten thousand waves" and "make a splash" in the same sentence?
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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>OK Jeff, maybe Snoop Dog catcher then. I'm with Barry, how about "None of the Above" in 2008? <br /><br />Bradley is a great guy and very smart, but he puts people to sleep when he talks. I know some of you will love it when Jeb Bush wins!!!
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Just noticed it -- I'm thinking it was subliminal. <br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Bradley may put people to sleep, but no presidential candidate ever had a better jump shot from 15 feet. Shouldn't that count for something?
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Two handed set shot. Took me a while to unlearn his style as a young basketball player.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>He jumped- about 4" off the ground.<br /><br />They don't make basketball players like him anymore. He was simply smarter than everyone else- and that made a difference. The 1970 Knicks were the most cerebral team that ever played, and they were the champions.
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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Yes, it counts for 2 points.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I just read that Cho bought some magazines for his gun off of ebay; they listed his ebay handle in an article and I checked it out. He received one negative feedback in like 69 transactions. The one neg was for his failure to get Hokie football tickets to a buyer. In retaliating with a neg of his own, Cho wrote that the buyer "opted for local pickup but never responded to email to arrange pickup" or something like that. Can you imagine meeting that psycho face to face to pick up a ticket? Best neg that buyer ever got....
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>How would you like to be the guy who was his college roommate? What's going through his mind right now?
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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>So you can buy ammunition on ebay. Sorry, I am no flaming liberal, but this is a very sick country.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>No, Peter, just the empty magazines.
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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>I stand corrected but it's still far too easy to obtain guns and ammunition in this country.
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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>Now that this thread has fallen into Political mode, I just have to say this. <br /><br />I DON'T KNOW WHY ANYBODY WOULD WANT TO BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT!!!!<br /><br />If a Democrat wins, pulls the troops out, raises taxes to pay for this whole mess and Iraq goes into full Civil War, then the Republicans will say, "I TOLD YOU SO".<br /><br />If a Republican wins, then the troops stay longer and more soldiers get killed and wounded. Then they pull the soldiers out, taxes are raised to pay for this whole mess and Iraq goes into full scale Civil War. Then the Democrats will say, "SEE, WE TOLD YOU GEORGE W BUSH WAS WRONG".<br /><br />This is one time (kind of) where I would like to see a President get a Third Term. That way Bush would have to stand up and do something about this mess instead of just biding his time until the next election. Then again, I would hate to see what other trouble he would get America into.<br /><br />Keeping troops in harms way just to put blame on the other political party is immoral.<br /><br />David
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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>wasnt this supposed to get back to greiving for those who lost their lives .Politics are slightly okay ,but this is what it has turned into a political thread.<br /><br />Lets hope for a safe return of all the soldiers and pray for all the victims in each of these situations.<br /><br />save the harpseals too!....<br /><br />pray for all goodness in life to come and keep your family tight and out of dangers way.
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Dan,<br /><br />I agree with you, so far I haven't really said anything about the victiums. The problem is I can't grieve without feeling depressed.<br /><br />So my solution is to let my mind go wild looking for the source of the problem and possible remedies. <br /><br />I apologize for my ranting and raving, but it's just my way of dealing with the situation. I've been like this for 2-3 days now.<br /><br />I'm just glad that I haven't been barred from this forum. Thanks guys, thanks Leon.<br /><br />Peter
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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>this wasnt necessarily addressed to you. Politics on the board should be nixed over my innocent save the harpseals post. Noone can ever tell when someone is going to go on a rampage. Iam all for the grieving thread , but when someone starts politics on a baseball card thread ......back & forth , back & forth....uh-uh.<br /><br />Guns are always going to be around and so are villains,thugs, thug rappers that promote violence ,etc....etc...<br /><br />You would have to have security in every building with a metal checker in order to avoid these situations. There are just alot of mean people in society. Times have changed. It use to be "never hit a guy with glasses on" and "never kick a man when he is down.....not today. Days of "gee whiz" and "aw shucks" are <br />over.<br /><br />Baseball cards, Red wine....oh and enough talking....Iam leaving for the tiger game now.....back to baseball !<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>I'm glad it's Sunday. I've been going crazy the last couple of days. It's when you start following the logic of a madman that you start going crazy yourself...<br /><br />Here I am about 2,500 miles from Virginia, I don't know Mr. Cho, never been to the campus, and didn't know any of the victims or their families.<br /><br />And I'm going crazy. I cannot imagine the grief that the families of the victims are going through.<br /><br />Then you start following Mr. Cho's train of thought. Here's a mild and meek man, who has probably never even been in a fight in his life going ballistic.<br /><br />Then you start thinking about his family and how guilty they must feel. They must have known about his psychological problems but they didn't take strong remedial measures.<br /><br />By the way, Mr. Cho's older sister is a genius. She picked Princeton over Harvard. If she isn't a genius then at least she has extremely good taste.<br /><br />Perhaps Mr. Cho wasn't a genius but clearly he was an extremely sensitive individual and could have made a significant contribution to our society.<br /><br />Part of the blame for the senseless violence has to rest with a society that did not bother to reach out to him and reassure him that his life mattered.<br /><br />Peter
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I have some empathy for Cho as it would seem that he had a tough life with his mental issues and such. However, my empathy disappears once I recall that he savagely took the lives of all of those innocent kids and teachers whose lives were just starting. And my empathy disappears when I recall thta Cho had prepared ugly and vicious video and written taunts to his victims, their families and to our society as a whole.<br /><br />With all that in mind, I hope that there is a hell and that Cho is experiencing for eternity all the pain that comes with it. <br /><br />Sorry I can't love the sinner as much as you do, Peter.
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />Let's say Mr. Cho had been captured. Would you have been able to defend him in a Court.<br /><br />I had a friend that went to MIT and left because at the time there were very few pretty Asian girls on campus. One semester he just showed up at my doorsteps and asked if he could rent a room in my apartment. Well, anybody that had the good sense to choose women over academics, now that's a good roommate.<br /><br />Anyway, he told me a story about his youth, the guy's a legitimate genius. Smartest high school graduate from San Francisco. Anyway, he told me when he was young he was ostracized by classmates because of his genius. Everybody hated him because the most difficult concepts were a snap for him.<br /><br />Anyway, he told me that in elementary school he thought about trying to obtain an assault rifle and going into the underground. I asked him what he meant he said he was thinking about shunning society and melting into the underworld. He would rob and kill and just survive off the land.<br /><br />Of course I was shocked and stunned, and I've followed him through the years. Needless to say, he never followed up with his dark thoughts. Of all things, he ended up going to seminary.<br /><br />The point of all this is sometimes there is a very thin line between genius and a madman.<br /><br />Peter
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>Peter says something a little more shocking. Just stop typing words with no thought to them. You may need to seriously consider some kind of therapy since you are now even more confused since all of this happened at VT. What? No one in their right mind should give two ****s about the idiot that shot up all those innocent people, you really need to stop wanking on about it. <br /><br />Life sucks sometimes and life is hard sometimes and peoples parents are mean to them sometimes and their friends pick on them sometimes and life is hard sometimes... oh, I already said that. Well it is, life is hard, so what? If life was easy, you would be Paris Hilton and look how she turned out.
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>Paris Hilton --she's hot!
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>.
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>Mr. Cho was an extremely sensitive individual?<br /><br />Peter C. -- the guy was a psychotic killer, no more, no less. Thousands of people for whatever reason get alienated -- they don't methodically buy guns and ammunition and then plan and execute mass murder. I recognize this has affected you deeply, but please stop looking for silver linings and weird angles. There are none.
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Today's New York Times had a lengthy biography of Mr. Cho. One of the comments was particularly chilling.<br /><br />Apparently some time ago one of his classmates in English finished reading one of Cho's bizarre plays, turned to his friend and said: "this is the kind of guy who is going to walk into a classroom and start shooting people." If that quote is true, it's pretty scary stuff.
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Peter S.,<br /><br />Your right there is no silver lining to this mess. However, there is a lot of dialogue going on, hopefully our government will come up with something more than business like usual.<br /><br />Peter
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Mike</b><p>Lets stop asking the government to save us from own stupidity. It won't work, it ends up costing us money, that is better spent elsewhere. Plus when was the last time they have ever done anything right? The government, cannot see into some mad mans head, and stop them from doing insane things. And in fact, if the government ever does come up with the ability to see inside our heads, look out. Who in the government will be in charge of determining which one of us is nuts ?
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Good question. Looking at themselves would be a good start.
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>This reminds me of the very tongue in cheek saying "It's ok folks. We're the government and we're here to help" .......
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>T E McMorrow</b><p>Comparing Bush to Lincoln? <br /><br />C'mon. Someone wrote further above that Lincoln's popularity was at 17%, and that if CNN were covering the Civil War...yada yada yada.<br /><br />Are we counting the south in this 17%? Lincoln was a tad unpopular in the south which would tend to skew a poll a wee bit. Are you basing this poll in the darkest days of the war, when it appeared all was lost? Then yes, Lincoln was extremely unpopular.<br /><br />But post-war, and particularly post-assasination, Lincoln was lionized in the north as no other President since. <br /><br />If Bush could have gotten one aspect of Lincoln's traits, namely Lincoln's ability to admit when he was wrong, he might have been able to turn this fiasco around.<br /><br />Lincoln made some crucial errors early in the war, admitted his mistakes, corrected course, and won. Won the brutal war, by the way, in less time than W has been in Iraq. The United States as you know it would not exist without Lincoln.<br /><br />The United States will survive W, at an enormous cost.<br /><br />I am quite touched by the soldier's pics and stories from Iraq. I appreciate and applaud his courage in touching the lives of Iraqi children. <br /><br />But the occupation of Iraq is a mess. Every day, there is another Va Tech in Iraq, another 25, 50, 75, 100 innocents slaughtered DAILY. These numbers aren't some left-wing fiction, they are too real and too horrific. We are stunned and rightly sickened by the insanity that occured in Va Tech, but the same insanity occurs on a daily basis in a nation 10% the size of ours, with our sons and daughters, brothers and sisters stuck in the middle.<br /><br />What is the objective? What is the goal?
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>So if we leave and the 'innocents' continue to get killed, in larger numbers, in the name of ethnic cleansing -- is that a plan too?
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>T E McMorrow</b><p>Fine Jeff, but what is the goal? What is the objective? Can you quatify it?
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>IMHO, we have enough problems on our own soil with people starving, homeless, jobless, etc. -that we should concentrate on cleaning up our own streets before cleaning up everyone else's.
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Well, that is my point: just leaving Iraq now with the knowledge that various Muslim sects will just kill each other is not necessarily what any of us life-loving Americans want. While we decry the innocents murdered everyday in Iraq let's not forget that 99% of the deaths are caused by Muslims to Muslims (or by Muslims to anyone else).<br /><br />But this is really for another day. Let's worry about kids with guns on campuses today.
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Sadly Iraq is a lost cause.<br /><br />The only thing we can do by staying there is to keep the civil war a bit in check. At the moment the violence and killing goes on unabated. If we leave the country implodes.<br /><br />I don't see a right answer.<br />
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>This has been going on there for thousands of years. What would make anyone think that any nation ("superpower" or not) could put a stop to it- or even put it in check? Perhaps some of our "leaders" should take a refresher course in History...or Philosophy or Religious Studies- but that would actually take some effort, thought and introspection. Silly me.
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Hoofaway, <br /><br />I wasn't saying "Bush is Lincoln", I was just trying to say maybe this will all be viewed differently in the rear-view mirror. Of course the South would count, do Democrats count in the current polls?
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>So Cobby, if this has been going on for thousands of years - Muslims killing Muslims - how did Islam get to be called the "Religion of Peace"? (And I'm not being a smartass)
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OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech
Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>I haven't posted on most of the recent threads since they've made me a bit nauseous trying to read them, but I just wanted some clarification here. <br /><br />In this thread, did I really read someone compare the VA Tech gunman to the U.S. Government, with the only difference being the gunman is more noble?<br /><br />Noble? Professor Chaos, you've really gone off the deep end on this one. Maybe you should consider apologizing to the parents of all the dead students whose lives were brutally taken by a killer who you describe as more noble than the government. <br /><br />I don't care what comparison you're trying to make, it's shameful to use the word "noble" in the same sentence as that crazed mass-murderer. <br /><br />Here's an idea: how about no more thoughtless posts for a few days. Maybe give yourself a timeout after you type, but before you post. If you can come back an hour after you typed a post, and it still makes any sense at all to you, go ahead and post. But please, put some thought into what you're saying. It's clear you've neglected to do that in this thread. <br /><br />-Ryan<br /><br />
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