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Seriously or not, this forum is in decline. Boot the difficult people, allow frivolous stuff about, for example, George Brett cards because the OP is a "regular poster" (since 6 months ago, if that), lazily complain about eBay (yes, Brian Van Horn, I mean you). It needs the proverbial reboot. Bill |
Buyers premiums are steep, correct. Sellers fees are steep, correct. But those fees being as high and the independent sellers/auction houses as they are protect each of us from the shill bidding and assets protection strategies many of you complain about here.
If fees were lower, problems far greater than each of you could imagine would certainly exist. If I didn't have to pay my bill when I won something nor did I have to pay a big buyers premium, I would most likely do more "asset protection" as would most others. The fees are high, I agree, but they are most certainly there for a reason. Any auction house that charges less than standard rates would immediately be a HUGE red flag to me and most other large buyers I assume. Most importantly, these large transaction costs make both buyers and sellers think seriously about transacting. If you are a buyer, you buy hopefully for the long term. If you are a seller, you likely consider the transaction costs in your investment return analysis. The fee structures as they are encourage long term investing rather than short term speculation. Although expensive, the model has sustained the test of time because it works on many levels. It critically encourages collectors and investors alike to make purchases they intend to commit to for long periods of time. By its very nature, this commitment buy the parties to a transaction support prices for our large investments in cardboard. You might wish for the "good ole days", but trust me, the market fee structure as it is today is exactly what each of us need for the market to function in an orderly and proper fashion. |
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Is that the "protection" you're crowing about? By the way, why do you get to post anonymously? Did you get some special dispensation from Leon? Bill |
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No beef with you, although I could not possibly care less about people policing eBay. Bill |
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I guess Jeff didn't want to answer the questions and get the immunity stick....off the island? |
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I spoken enough of my mind for the evening and for a while. Take care guys... I'll check back periodically, but don't expect me to post or contribute often. Justin |
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More posters isn't necessarily worse. But, in this case, it absolutely is. Bill |
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I dunno, mandatng your full name be in public is being held somewhat accountable. (It's in bold type at the top of every page.) No two people would moderate a forum the same way. There can't be a perfect way in as much as you can't please everyone. |
Is Wonka really banned?
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Jantz |
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Mark |
It's not all negative. If you're consigning anything, ask for a portion of the buyer's fee. Auction houses are not entitled to stick buyers with ~20% fees. They're all peas in the same pod, offering the same service. I don't care if they issue a catalog or not, if they are upstanding types, etc - it's the same results, over & over. Don't give in.
Bill |
Sigh ....
Jeff defends people who are accused because he took an oath to do so. That doesn't mean he condones what they are alleged to have done, nor does it prohibit him from saying that the alleged offense, in general, is wrong. In fact, I might suggest that he is in a better position to lobby against hobby fraud, having been involved in it first hand (in the sense of defending those accused of committing it, not committing it himself) than some others. Maybe he's more vocal because he has more rubber meets the road experience than many others. Don't know, just sayin .... Leon, you do a great job at a thankless task. Kind of like herding cats. I don't always agree with you, but I generally do. I have friends, not hobby friends but friends in general, who could (probably justifiably) be accused of lots of things, some of which would probably be warranted. Even if convicted, they would still be my friends and I would visit them in prison. I've had to do that a time or two. So I get that dynamic as well. This is a forum to talk about cards. Mostly, I like to see threads about cards, the history of cards, research about cards, people who are happy to have landed a card they really wanted, and similar topics. I get that fraudsters have to be outed and discussed, but I have to say that it seems as if those types of accusations have been vastly more prevalent in the last few years than they used to be. I view that as a big negative. It is completely fair for Jeff or anyone else to raise perceived concerns. It is also completely fair for Leon or anyone else to challenge such an allegation. I don't know what the answer is, but I can honestly say that wading through accusations and recriminations over and over again becomes really tiresome and I think that the message which is meant to be sent sometimes gets lost in the noise on both sides. That's not productive. With some trepidation, I suggest that you add a dedicated complaint area where people who had bad experiences can explain and those who are thinking about buying from someone can look to see if they have been accused, etc. The accused can respond. The virtue is obviously that folks don't have to parse through tons of emails to figure out whether there's an issue because it is hopefully in one place. Sort of like ebay feedback but hopefully better. Just a suggestion. Kenny |
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In reality, the situation is a bit more dynamic--as a substantial portion of the available supply is absorbed by true collectors, and prices begin to dramatically rise, the situation attracts additional attention and demand, causing the demand end of the equation to rise even further. Supply too rises, however, as the rising prices leverage some of those previously sold out of what were intended to be permanent collections--the price has simply gotten too high for some to resist the impulse to cash in. The internet, as well as the number of quality auctions, has accelerated the pace at which the above phenomenon has occurred for the simple reason that you used to either have to attend many, many quality shows or get lucky with an SCD ad in the '90's to find that rare, desirable "unicorn" of a card you'd been seeking for many years. Now, with communications enhanced between buyers and sellers, even the rarest will come to your attention far, far sooner. Econ 101 in a dynamic nutshell! Hope you all find your unicorns--I'm putting mine together before too many "big boys" come looking for them! Larry |
What have we learned
If everything is legit, this was a great milestone for our hobby. This price appreciation is what we all hope for. And a lesson learned as well - acquire good stuff, the best we can afford. I can't wait for someone to put up a 5.0 T206 green Cobb (well centered) with asking price in the $7-10k neighborhood and see if someone bites. Then we will know more. And will this sale bring up prices on slightly lesser demand cards as well?
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There is a PSA 4 strong on centering and eye appeal but a very weak 4 based on corners at Goldin auctions at $5400 currently.
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also what I dont understand ,for example, is how this (basically) exact same card is at $100 more for pwcc auctions than the other seller's:
PWCC other seller |
its not the same card, thats why
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both Cousy signed Rookie, same condition with corner crease, just one is signed in blue and the other black
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The PWCC card has much better eye appeal because of less surface wear. It is also way off center and has print registration problems. The other card is centered much better and is more in focus but is very ugly from the surface wear. I am not a fan of PWCC and will not buy from them but can easily see why the PWCC card has a much higher bid. |
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"I have friends, not hobby friends but friends in general, who could (probably justifiably) be accused of lots of things.."
Forgive me Kenny, but this is the best line in this entire thread. Feels like a statement Steve Martin would of made in "The Jerk". |
I started this thread last year when I thought there was going to be an uptick on Green Cobbs and i had sold a few of them. Then came the PWCC aucttion last year.
The Green Cobb that blew the roof and opened the green cobb craze that was subject to this thread that sold for 15k with pwcc, is now at 15k with HA BEFORE buyers premium. Guess PWCC is not crazy with prices afterall. There was lots of talk about shilling with PWCC on this card. One more bid and the consignor starts to make serious dough assuming the card didnt change hands since pwcc last year... http://www.pwccauctions.com/item.php?item_no=1180713 http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/19...umbnail-071515 |
the cobb ex+? it's a gorgeous card!!!!!
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