Part of the problem is you always forget to use the sarcasm font and then the wrong people think you agree with them. :)

Where have you seen evidence that partial refunds are being paid out?

If the average card at issue here is worth $5000 there won’t be many lawsuits if any. That’s how PSA has been able to say FU for years to anyone who wants a refund.

What’s going to happen is a law firm will sue them and represent a hundred plaintiffs, large and small, with before and after pics as evidence. And sue them separately for each one. When they see the bad publicity and their inability to make the cases go away they will pay. Or else they’ll get buried.

zero evidence, just human nature that hard for me to believe everyone asking for damages will be satisfied .

Total Numbers
 

Do we have an idea of the total number of cards that may be altered?

This sub includes the Old Mill Cobb that BO has identified as originally having been purchased by PWCC itself in an SGC 30 holder.

22834524 T206 Polar Bear O'Hara PSA 2 PWCC 7/7/2014
22834525 T206 Polar Bear O'Hara PSA 4 PWCC 10/5/2014
22834526 T206 Piedmont Cobb Green Background PSA 2.5 PWCC 7/7/2014
22834527 T206 Piedmont Cobb Green Background PSA 3 PWCC 6/3/2014 Looks More Like a Yellow Background
22834528 T206 Old Mill Cobb Red Background PSA 4.5 PWCC 7/7/2014
22834529 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
22834530 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
22834531 T206 Sweet Caporal Cobb Red Background PSA 6 PWCC 11/2/2014
22834532 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
22834533 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
22834534 1933 Goudey #92 Gehrig PSA 3 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834535 1933 Goudey #154 Foxx PSA 4 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834536 1933 Goudey #160 Gehrig PSA 4.5 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834537 1933 Goudey #216 Gomez PSA 5.5 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834538 1933 Goudey #220 Grove PSA 5 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834539 1933 Goudey #223 Dean PSA 5 PWCC 6/4/2014
22834540 1940 Playball #1 DiMaggio PSA 4 NO RECORD OF SALE
22834541 1949 Bowman #50 Robinson PSA 8 PWCC 6/5/2014
22834542 Altered, Min Size or Miscut NO RECORD OF SALE
22834543 1952 Topps #1 Pafko BLACK PSA 5 NO RECORD OF SALE
22834544 1954 Topps #128 Aaron PSA 6 PWCC 11/3/2014
22834545 Altered, Min Size or Miscut
22834546 1954 Topps #128 Aaron PSA 7 PWCC 6/5/2014
22834547 1956 Topps #135 Mantle GRAY PSA 7 NO RECORD OF SALE

Many more subs containing outed cards are in the works I hear.

too much info ....
 

I have been reading this for about an hour and still not really sure whats going on. Anyone want to give me a readers digest version....

Watch this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=9TpKs7DKsto

Do you mean (1) the number of cards specifically outed, (2) the number of cards in the same submissions as the outed cards, or (3) how many altered cards are out there in the world?

SGC 4.5 Green Cobb
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3178

some of these cards would have gone up on their own..

an issue is if you make a corner rounder that was sharp....is that really altering.

if you bounce the card a few times like in a game on the corner like a kid may of done or put in your spokes..thats not altering a card.....plus that would lower the value ..i guess thats normal wear and tear is not altering.....

on this cobb it is alleged the corners were made worse....by rounding them...also there is some altering alleged to improve the card of course..but the rounding part is whats interesting to me.

It’s altered badly

yes i added to my comment....but the rounding part is interesting

so how much is PSA supposed to pay back on this one? No lawsuits filed so everyone must be being paid back to their satisfaction

Peter, what I'm asking is, is there a comprehensive list of Whittman/PWCC cards. I have already found two I purchased on the list and wanted to check all the PWCC cards I have. Thanks.

The thread I linked to is the subs done so far. MANY more subs are coming.

Here is the list to date.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...48&postcount=1

Thanks Peter!

Stay tuned. It's going to be ugly.

This is an SGC card, for starters.

so SGC doesnt pay anything back? I think you know what i mean.

Someone has to make a claim, Jake. It got outed yesterday. I really don't know what you're driving at here. I hope you do. :)

So does anyone have any idea of where the cards that are rejected by the TPGs are winding up?

Are they just being resubmitted over and over until they finally get a numeric grade?

Are they being sold/auctioned raw through some other dealer?

Maybe someone is using them as coasters for their drinks?

They are somewhere though; they have not disappeared.

Some of 1 and some of 2 I suspect.

Seems like, for vintage, he's submitting to PSA first, having a high success rate, and then may try back at PSA again before submitting to SGC. If the first touch-up didn't work, maybe a second will? Some of the cards were purchased two years prior to coming back up for sale. This may be due to the ones that were initially deemed altered being retried multiple times.

Some of the sets really only have value in PSA slabs because of the registry.

Lots of talk, no lawsuits. If no lawsuits, that says might not be such a problem.

Or... keep your scams to small dollar amounts and refund readily when found out... No lawsuit no problem? :confused:

Sure Jake whatever you say.

I don't follow this at all. There are some very expensive altered cards in holders, starting with 00000001.

It was mostly a response to the idea that if there aren't lawsuits there's no problem.
Not many will sue over $10, especially if they say "oh I have a problem" and they get their $10 back right away.

Now the other bike shop in town where the owners relative confronted by a soon to be bride with some pretty gnarly facial scrapes from the handlebars coming loose who replied to this news with "well what do you expect me to do about it? " …

As Jimi Hendrix sang, if 6 was 9, I don't mind. 53 Parkhurst.



https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3201

No lawsuits in the last two hours. Onto the next hobby disaster, this one’s cleaned up.

Jake will be pleased.

LOL how dare they give it the same grade after such a nice trim job. Read the description.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3232

Possibly a world record for most trimmed off a card.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3233

And not far behind.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3236

Always complaining, always negative. The diamond cut is gone! Isn’t that a good thing?

Yes, and that's a good thing for the hobby!! And in any event, it was just a bump.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3237

Best one today.

And the PSA Kool Aid Drinkers Continue To Buy.
How ugly is this year’s National Gonna Be At two booths ?

Are we to believe the PSA graders stink this bad at their job ? This stink so bad of other stuff going on.....Ov Vey

T206 Cobb Red SGC 3 to 6.5
 

Have we made a list of all the different types of alterations found so far by Moser?
1) Trimming
2) Bleaching
3) Rebuilding corners
4) Filling pinholes
5) Repairing tears
6) Pressing out creases
7) Recoloring to cover up paper loss or minimize appearance of fisheyes/snow
8) Removing caramel/wax/gum stains
9) Shill bidding and winning his own auctions
10) Faking rough cuts

Things Moser has confessed to: just bumping cards on the basis of their own merits.

If only he would use his powers for good...

Leaf Mini.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3254

Mercy. Another Leaf Mini.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=136

LOL
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3388

Yowch. These just don't stop.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3390

How in the hell can that much of a trim pass review? On some of these altered cards, I have sympathy for the TPGs as it is virtually impossible to tell the alterations without having the benefit of the before and after comparison, which they don't have when grading. But these ones with the major trims, I just scratch my head...

To paraphrase the Dylan song
 

Something is happening here but you don't know what it is
Do ya, Mr. Sloan?

Are there any regular sized Leaf cards left?

Appears so...still no lawsuits.....guess will keep posting all of this injustice but no lawsuits.

correct..if there are no lawsuits its not enough of a problem...usually even when there are no criminal charges there are at least civil lawsuits...if you dont see any civil lawsuits then you can forget criminal charges etc..

its a problem even if no lawsuits but i would worry about problems where there are actual lawsuits and criminal charges more than on problems where there aren't

I have a bunch of them with fat borders...i wonder how much the population went down actually...