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My top 5
1. Babe Ruth
2. Barry Bonds 3. Ty Cobb 4. Willie Mays 5. Honus Wagner Sorry but considering bonds the greatest player ever is far from ignorant. If all it took to be great was popping a pill or getting a shot explain the differences between Ozzie canseco and Jose canseco or Jeremy Giambi and Jason Giambi. These weren't Magic hall of fame pills or shots they were getting. |
Gehrig
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If indeed both Ruth and Gehrig are in the top 5 you have to figure out why they did not win more pennants and World Series then they did. Unless, you also say that all of the HOFers they played with -Dickey, Lazzeri, Sewell, Combs, Ruffing, Gomez, Hoyt, Pennock are all over-rated. Two of the top 5 players ever combined with 8 other Hall of Famers should have won far more pennants then they did. |
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1. I agree that Gehrig should not be in the top 5, but 2. You shouldn't expect the best team to win against a mediocre opponent, let alone a pennant winner, quite so often in baseball as you seem to. See here: http://freakonomics.com/2012/11/09/d...-world-series/ 3. And anyway, they finished 1st or 2nd in the AL 10 times in the 12 years that Ruth and Gehrig were there together -- every year but 1925 (when Ruth and Gehrig missed a combined 88 games) and in 1930 when they finished 18 games above .500 with the second worst pitching staff in MLB (team ERA+ = 89). 4. I'll just quote you out of context here, as it's absolutely spot on. "Dickey, Lazzeri, Sewell, Combs, Ruffing, Gomez, Hoyt, Pennock are all over-rated." Indeed. |
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Ruth and Gehrig
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Who are the next best set of teammates for any length of time - Morgan-Bench, Morgan-Rose? |
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Eddie Collins and Jimmie Foxx? Kid Nichols and John Clarkson? You could also go with Babe Ruth and Tris Speaker (1915). Or, you know, Pujols and Trout. |
Clemens and Seaver?
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Mantle and Berra has to be considered. Plus Ford.
Maddux and Glavine. Foxx and Grove. Mays and McCovey. Jeter and ARod. Frank and Brooks. |
Roger Clemens and Wade Boggs in 9 yrs together they won 4 batting titles, 3 Cy Youngs, and 1 MVP.
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If we expand to three, hard to top Aaron Mathews and Spahn for a decade. Also Mays McCovey Marichal.
Ott and Hubbell on the list of twos. |
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If we count relatively short overlaps, there are many more. Ryan and Seaver. Gehrig and DiMaggio. Mays and Spahn. Williams and Foxx.
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Most of them hadn't reached or were past their peaks but the '28 A's had Cobb, Speaker, Collins, Cochrane, Foxx, Grove and Simmons.
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1965 Giants were pretty good. G Perry, Spahn, Marichal, Mays, Cepeda and McCovey. 2 300 game winners and 2 500 HR guys.
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Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz/Chipper
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How is it ignorant? It's my opinion. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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I am biased, but I had the pleasure of seeing Paul Molitor and Robin Yount play side by side many times at County Stadium between 1978 and 1989, with Molly starting at second base, and then moving to third, and the Kid playing at shortstop. As teammates (from 1978 to 1992), the numbers they put up are pretty staggering: Games played: 4,016 At Bats: 15,929 Runs: 2,605 Hits: 4,736 Doubles: 868 Triples: 195 Home Runs: 386 RBI: 1,964 Stolen Bases: 623 Total Bases: 7,152 AVG: .297 OBP: .359 SLG: .449 OPS: .808 The only teammates I know of to have more combined hits than Yount and Molitor's 4,736 are Roberto Clemente and Bill Mazeroski, who tallied 4,895 hits between 1956 and 1972. Of course, they played in 4,472 games combined to 4,016 for Yount and Molitor. Best power hitting duo of all-time? The two duos that immediately come to mind are Ruth and Gehrig, and Aaron and Mathews. Ruth and Gehrig were teammates from 1923 to 1934. Aaron and Mathews from 1954 to 1966. Ruth and Gehrig combined to hit 859 home runs, driving in 3,029 runs. Aaron and Mathews combined to hit 863 home runs, driving in 2,627 runs. That's a lot of balls flying out of the park! Right behind them, Willie Mays and Willie McCovey hit 813 home runs as teammates, driving in 2,344 runs. |
Best twosome
My original thought was that if you ranked the top 50 players of all-time what two teammates would be ranked the highest. Some people had Ruth #1 and Gehrig #2.
I think after Ruth-Gehrig it would be either Morgan-Rose, Aaron-Mathews or if you want to count three years Foxx-Williams. The best pitcher-hitter combo on the same team - Foxx-Grove. |
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Actually, Felipe Alou was on the earlier Giants, but was gone by 1965. Matty and Jesus were still on the Giants though. |
Musial has got to be in this list somewhere. And Williams of course. Think of his numbers if he didn't serve his country twice.
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Also, I thought the allegations are that he used steroids after the 1998 season. |
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What I'd like to see done will never happen: polygraph testing re whether or not they used PED's, which would be a prerequisite for getting on the HOF ballot. PED use would neither disqualify them from the ballot or admission, but if voted in, they would go in with the appropriate asterisk/notation on their plaques. Just my two cents, Larry |
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As far as defense, no he wasn't that good. He is remembered for his poor throw that allowed Sid Bream to score the winning run in the 92 playoffs and his misplay in the 2002 WS. Like Derek Jeter, he won gold gloves because of his name. Bonds claim is that he started using in 98, but it is obvious he started in 93. He hooked up with Greg Anderson and Balco after 98 season. |
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