Oh yeah,and welcome to the U.S.of A. MS-13! Bring your machetes?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...bers-entering/

Sincerely, Clayton

P.S. Who is allowing THIS B/S to continue? What about "National Security"?

And, finally, one quick search and it was not hard to find this story from your neck of the woods Jason:

http://jonathanturley.org/2014/02/25...e-allegations/

So, you don't see a problem militarizing the police? I found this story in a second, and it wasn't even the one I was thinking about- which was a kid who was pulled over, and beaten when he tried to grab his paycheck from blowing out of the car.

These stories are all over the country like an epidemic. I think it has to do with the way police are being trained, and how they are treating the public. I want our society to have faith and trust in the police-not fear. Stories like this should be a rare incident. The whole nation should have learned from the Rodney King beating, but I guess not.

Sincerely, Clayton

From the article...

I’ve heard people come in and say, ‘You’re going to let me go, just like you let my mother go, just like you let my sister go. You’re going to let me go as well, and the government’s going to take care of us,’”

Sadly, it's true.

I was asking you to source where officers have been injured or killed by firearms defined as assault rifles.

It only matters that they have them, and the feds aren't exactly charging them retail. I doubt the Podunk county sheriff has a spare couple of million dollars for a MRAP lying around.

I was talking about "mishaps" a bit more serious:

http://cloudfront-assets.reason.com/...burn_wsbtv.jpg

That is the result of an overzealous cop with a flashbang. Guess what, nothing has been done to the officer either "it was a tragic mistake" says the department.

I'm arguing against military tactics and equipment such as flashbangs and light machine guns (as opposed to assault rifles). Allowing cops to carry weapons normal citizens can't creates a citizenry that has more rights than the rest. And the scare isn't ridiculous, because historically when governments stop fearing their own citizens, liberty doesn't last long.

Also, why would a cop need say, a fully automatic M4? Who are they going to be engaging at 300m where they need the capability to fire 600 rounds per minute? I understand deploying flashbangs when clearing an actively hostile room, but for the standard no-knock felony warrant, when the occupants of the room aren't even known? I'm saying the cops here are using tactics we used in Iraq to clear buildings and the vast majority of the time they are swatting flies with a shotgun!

I couldn't care less if the process to purchase handguns and rifles becomes even more stringent or requires basic safety training... but allowing citizens such as cops to have more rights than the rest of citizenry is unconstitutional, plain and simple.

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Well, I can understand the bias seeing that you have friends in the force. I think we would probably all agree that there are good people in law enforcement, good judges, etc.. But, I think you may be way off in thinking that 99% are good. That is a bit fantasy sounding to me, I can search the internet and find TONS of video's showing various instances of police corruption,brutality, and downright murder.And these are instances of where they were recorded. It would be nice if every department across the nation was 99% Serpico and 1% corrupt, but unfortunately that doesn't appear to be the case.

I think you are way off to think America(as in American citizens) has become a militarized nation-this screams of cable media brainwashing to me. New wave of domestic terrorists? Yeah, I think you've been falling for the propaganda (no offense). How many people live here? 330,000,000 or so? They feed you no stop with the Santa Barbara kid- but not a peep about Chicago. Right now, if you haven't noticed, they are trying to convince us (Americans) that we need to "intervene in Iraq". No, we need to intervene at our own border! We need to fix our problems HERE. It's propaganda, and it's sick.

Here's the cold hard truth:

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/06/...ty-become.html

All I can say is I hope people wake up to this evil. And quick.

Sincerely, Clayton

I'm sorry, but this was completely avoidable. If you are going to "no knock" raid someone's house, you should know who lives in that house. Due diligence is required. No amount of drugs is worth this type of "mistake". It's a baby-why you would call this infant a "crack baby" is repugnant. No knock warrants , in my opinion, should only be for people wanted for the most serious felonies, like murder, robbery, rape, etc. Not because their "confidential informant" bought a small amount of drugs from a guy OUTSIDE of the home.

Accidents in this line of work are bound to happen.....but if you haven't noticed-everything is "a mistake", and they promise "a thorough investigation". But-they end up cleared, as usual.

It's not popular to point out police abuse, but enough is enough! Kelly Thomas-that's what did it for me- it's time for a major discussion on this type of behavior. The good police need to start speaking up-and if they see a fellow officer who can't handle the stress of the job and is a potential danger to the public, they need to let their supervisor know and remove him or her.

The war on drugs brought us all of this gestapo style crap.....it needs to be fixed. I have a lot of respect for these LEO's- L.E.A.P.- Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. Veteran police, judges, correction officers, detectives, etc......who are speaking out about the damage and absurdity that the war on drugs has brought us as a country. I would highly recommend watching this-startling statistics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsk8R_j5zzg

Want to know how controlled our media is? Did you realize Mexico decriminalized ALL street drugs a few years back? I honestly didn't know until I watched this video.....then I researched it, and I couldn't believe it. WTF?

Sincerely, Clayton

We need to call it what it is- a foreign invasion. And, our corrupt politicians are sitting back and letting it happen. It's way worse than that article, they are allowing it on purpose. And, again, where is DHS? What about "National Security"? How many terrorists have came across? Is this not treason?

Sincerely, Clayton

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I guess I am way over my limit then :D

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That's exactly how many I currently own at the moment. That number can increase or decrese depending on what I buy, sell or trade for, but it's usually pretty consistent.

Today, reported by AP:

http://news.yahoo.com/2nd-officer-su...204342108.html

What a guy. :confused:

Sincerely, Clayton

I'm not sure where you are getting your information about the story^^ but it almost sounds like you are talking about something different. This was not a "crack baby" (as if that even makes a difference-a baby is a baby)- but I didn't read anything about a history of gun violence. Maybe I missed that. But, if you read the end of this report, you will see they located their subject, and without hesitation or confrontation, he WILLINGLY went with police. So, all of this militarized B/S was UNNECESSARY.

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/...ams-raids-aclu

As far as the original topic- the reason they want "gun control" has NOTHING to do with any of the killings in the past 6 years. If your eyes were wide open, you would understand what I'm saying. With all due respect.

Sincerely, Clayton

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I'll sum myself up for you: Anti-corruption, freedom loving American. :) Oh, and I can't stand abuse of power and trust. CNN..........ah, never mind.

http://benswann.com/faith-in-police-...historic-lows/

Here I go on another weird tangent-only because after I logged out, and went to my homepage, this was right there in front of me:

http://news.yahoo.com/as-wars-wind-d...233505138.html

The fact of the matter is......I'm not making ANY of this stuff up. How can you say any of this stuff I link to is "government conspiracies"? I'm not writing these articles. Is it all a figment of my imagination? Is there no cause for alarm?

Sincerely, Clayton

CNN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWY14eyMFg

:confused:

Sincerely, Clayton

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Sure did. Oh, my bad........fake then, but not now.

Sincerely, Clayton

The second to last link I provided (a couple of posts back) SAYS exactly what you just quoted me writing in post #235. So, where is the conspiracy Jason? Did you even read the article? Is the DHS not part of the Federal Government? Nice try though.

Sincerely, Clayton

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So the last article I posted from Yahoo! is now considered a conspiracy theory? I see. I've came to the conclusion that I am wasting my time with you because it really doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not. You do your best to discredit me and attack my character-like you know me that well. This is usually what certain people do when you are destroying the credibility of a lie.

Think about it Jason- if we (the public) were given the truth all of the time, would conspiracies even exist? No, they would not. But, we are lied to, manipulated, and deceived on a regular basis. For example- the North Hollywood bank robbery shootout. Why was there no "conspiracy theory" there? Because it really was what it was.

If this conversation were making progress, I'd love to continue-but it's not and it won't. You believe what you want to believe, justify everything and enjoy CNN and whatever else you consider to be the truth.

Sincerely, Clayton

" Going off on another tangent".......... if you don't get it you never will. Enjoy your brainwashing, you seem to enjoy it. By the way- you are obvious.

Sincerely, Clayton

Yes, you are wasting your time. You may as well be talking to a brick wall.


Bingo! Just like the Benghazi incident was over a YouTube video. Just like Fast and Furious. Just like 'losing' all of Lois Lerner's emails.

But, Clayton, when you point out these lies, these people are so quick to say, "Bush lied about this. Bush lied about that. Blah, blah, blah..." They want to defend their political party, and by doing so try to deiscredit the other side. They're too blind and ignorant to see that we're being lied to not just by one party, but by both parties.

Looks aside, the MRAPs are some very good multi purpose trucks. Ones that cost around 5-600,00 bought new.

Even one of the articles linked says they would be useful after a disaster like a flood or hurricane.

So what should the feds do? Scrap the surplus ones? Pay a load of money to essentially rebody them as less "scary" trucks? or simply give them as-is to police departments? (And probably eventually fire depts. and maybe some other emergency services)


Historical precedents?

A lot of early airmail was flown in Curtis JN-4 aircraft. Nearly all WWI surplus, sold for as little as $50. It became the basis for some following civilian aircraft, and since it was mainly a trainer, it was the first plane flown by many new pilots including some guy named Lindbergh who became a pretty good pilot from what I read.

The postal service also used combat aircraft, mostly bombers like the Martin MB-1

WWII surplus 5 ton trucks and Jeeps were put to a host of civilian and government uses. Park service, fire departments, Town public works, and much more.

Bostons Duckboat tours originally operated with restored WWII era vehicles, but has switched to modern replicas for ease of maintainance.

I'm not sure it's still policy, but at one time if you set up a non-profit museum focused on some aspect of the military the proper branch would let you apply for a piece of surplus equipment. That's how the tank Museum in Danbury CT started. It's an excellent museum by the way.

Steve B

Thanks David, I appreciate that. I'm glad to see that you get what I'm saying. You can produce all of the information to people like this and they resort to childish remarks and character assassination- but won't objectively give your points the time of day.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-new...lists_06242014

It's funny how everything I've posted is verifiable-all one has to do is a little bit of research.

Sincerely, Clayton

You make some good points Steve, as always- but it's really a larger issue than just the MRAP's. It, to me, is the militarization of the police forces that scares me. They are calling returning veterans, people who are suspicious of centralized government, people who store food and water, etc. "potential domestic terrorists"! Read the 2012 NDAA sections 1021 and 1022. If you look at everything as a whole, it's a bit alarming to me. This amongst a lot of other things. Militarizing the police does nothing but instill fear in the public. In essence, they are bringing the war home and they consider the U.S. of A. a "battlefield" now. It's in the 2012 NDAA. And then you have all of the executive orders that have been signed that get no news coverage........all about controlling everything from food, water, travel, etc. These are not conspiracies, but verifiable facts.

I guess time will tell. I hope it's as innocent as you say- but I just don't see it.

Sincerely, Clayton

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A true American taking a stand for what is right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4y9aNpjkLs

Sincerely, Clayton