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T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....SHOW US YOUR 6 FAVORITE T206's
I must add my Walter Johnson to this mix. This picture is absolutely the best looking image in the entire T206 set.
It's certainly my most favorite T206 card. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohsonSGC40.jpg Hey guys......how's about posting some of your favorite T206's here. TED Z . |
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Ted, here is my favorite card from the entire set. It's a good representation of Cobb, and I like the colors:
Attachment 302263 |
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A couple of other favorites are of course the Walter Johnson portrait, the nicest portrait in the set, and the Matty Black Cap. The Mathewson looks so well done that it could almost pass for a photograph.
Attachment 302264 Attachment 302265 |
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My favorite front/back combo is the Merkle Brown Lenox. It's a 1 of 1, and I mean to keep it until I die.
Attachment 302266 Attachment 302267 |
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And finally there's Mitchell:
Attachment 302268 This one needs an explanation. I began collecting cards in 1965, when I was eight. Of that first set, my favorite card was Yastrzemski. I love the pose. Of course I know now that it was staged, but at the time I really thought that they had photographed him in the act of catching a fly ball. The Mitchell card reminds me so much of my first favorite card that it has become a favorite as well: |
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T206 Reference....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....SHOW US YOUR FAVORITE T206
Hey Sean
Some nice cards, thanks for posting them. OK, here's another unique T206 card, which until recently was in my collection. Now, it is in David Hall's master set. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erzogSGC45.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ogUZITx50b.jpg TED Z . |
T206 150-only subjects......
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg Only these five T-brands were printed on the backs of the 150-only T206's American Lithographic initially printed 12 subjects which were the first T206's (issued circa Spring 1909). Depicted here are these 12 guys...... http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...urchDonlin.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tPeltyReul.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gnerRpt15x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkSC150x30.jpg TED Z . |
T206 150-only subjects......Eddie Plank
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg Only these five T-brands were printed on the backs of the 150-only T206's Contrary to the conventional thinking, it's my opinion that Mike Powers should not be considered a 150-only T206 subject. American Lithographic actually printed Powers battery mate, Eddie Plank, with this 1st series of 12 cards. This we know for certain, since a partial sheet of Piedmont 150 cards were dis- covered in Eastern Long Island (NY) in the mid 1980's. Included on this sheet were Eddie Plank and Honus Wagner (subsequently referred to as the Gretzky Wagner). For more info on this, check-out this 2009 thread....http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=111871 Since the 1970's, several theory's (such as the "broken printing plates" myth, etc.) have been proposed to explain the "short-printing" of the Plank card. Well, my take on this mystery is very simple....having read Connie Mack's ** response to a Philadelphia sports writer (circa 1910) regarding Plank........ "The secret of Plank's pitching is no secret at all. It is a good strong arm, a powerful constitution to back it, and neither drinks, smokes, chews tobacco, nor swears...." My guess is Eddie Plank informed the American Tobacco Co. (ATC) that he did not want his image portrayed on Tobacco cards. And, being the low-keyed guy that he was, Plank did not "hype-up" his anti-tobacco stance (as Wagner did). Most likely, a brief "cease and desist" order was issued to ATC. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkSC150x30.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SC150x30xb.jpg Furthermore, why ATC continued issuing the Plank card with a SWEET CAPORAL 350, Factory #30 back for a short period of time is anyone's guess. ? I have some thoughts regarding this; however, I'm curious what your's may be ? ? The majority of T206 Plank cards in circulation are the SWEET CAPORAL 350, Factory #30 versions. And, it is interesting to note that the colors of the majority of these particular Plank cards are quite pale in comparison with the rich-looking colors of the PIEDMONT 150 or SWEET CAPORAL 150 cards. Footnote ** "Connie Mack" (Biography), by Norman Macht TED Z . |
Mike Powers
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg Only these five T-brands were printed on the backs of the 150-only T206's Mike Powers was the preferred battery mate of Eddie Plank. Unfortunately, on Opening Day of Shibe Park (April 12 1909) in Philadelphia, Mike Powers was injured on the field. In the hospital, the doctors discovered he had serious intestinal system problems. Mike passed away 2 weeks later (re....Net54 thread posted 2008). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DayShibe25.jpg My theory regarding the Mike Powers card is....he was subsequently printed in press runs which included 33 other subjects. This appears evident, as the backs of these 34 subjects were also overprinted with the SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory #649 stamp. My point here is that the Powers card was actually printed with this group of 34 subjects. Of which, 33 of them became 150/350 series cards. The Powers card was discontinued due to his untimely death; therefore, he was not printed with any 350 series backs. As he would have been printed, had he continued in his BB career. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...owersbacks.jpg TED Z . |
INDEX to this T206 Reference thread's posts and story's....UPDATED
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpg Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206 An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series. Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ? Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts. In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle "error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11 Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints" Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards) Post #5......350/460 series backs identified Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series) Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's ! Post #93.....T206 "Proofs" Post #96.....UZIT checklist Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911) Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ? Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued) Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint) Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited) Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects...... Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors. However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s). TED Z . |
T206 150-only subjects (continued)
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE......Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg Only these five T-brands were printed on the backs of the 150-only T206's Presented here is a theory of which I presented some years ago, that I expect will stir up some controversy on this forum. When American Lithographic was forced to remove the Wagner image on their 150-only series sheet, they replaced him with the Schulte (front view) image. The criticism that I expect of my theory, is that this Schulte is part of the Elite 11 group. Well, I say do not be so quick to dismiss my proposition. For it has not been proven that one lonely Schulte card with a PIEDMONT 350 back is not just a mis-printed error. Cards of the Elite 11 group are defined by having a PIEDMONT 350 back and an EPDG back. Therefore, until I see this Schulte card with an EPDG back, which would prove it belongs to the Elite 11 group, I consider this card a 150-only series subject. Feel free to discuss this issue. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gnerRpt15x.jpg > > > > > > http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...150Schulte.jpg TED Z . |
T206 150-only subjects (continued)......TRIVIA
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...30Hindu12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg Only these five T-brands were printed on the backs of the 150-only T206's There is another card in this 150-only series that interests me, besides the Plank and Wagner cards. Check-out the Al Burch image. It's my guess that the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island are pictured in the distant background. The picture of Burch appears to have been taken at the old Brooklyn Heights field when he played for Brooklyn. The Statue of Liberty is can be seen from this venue. Anyone here would like to venture another guess as to what buildings are in this card's background ? ................................v http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...urchDonlin.jpg TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theory's....TRIVIA QUIZ...1st correct answer wins a T206
Name a T206 guy who pitched a No-Hitter in his 1st Major League start ?
First one here who posts the correct answer to this Trivia quiz is rewarded with a T206 card. TED Z . |
Ted-
Is it Ted Breitenstein? |
Phillippe threw one his first year, not sure if it was his first start
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T206 TRIVIA Quiz
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Congratulations Chris....you are the Trivia King. Ted Breitenstein's 1st Major League start was on October 4, 1891. He faced the minimum number of 27 batters pitching a no-hitter for the St. Louis Browns (his hometown team). He allowed just one Walk, which was erased by a double play. During Ted's 20-year career (Major and Minor Leagues), he pitched 3 no-hitters. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350xCOUPON.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...50xCOUPONb.jpg Chris......email me and we'll talk about the T206 card that I'm going to send you..... tedzan11@comcast.net TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theory's...TRIVIA QUIZ #2...1st correct answer wins T206
Name the T206 guy who holds a pitching record that I think has never been equaled. Most total games WON in his first two Major League seasons ?
First one here who posts the correct answer to this Trivia quiz is rewarded with a T206 card. TED Z . |
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Howie Camnitz?
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk |
Joe McGinnity?
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Larry Corcoran had 74!!! Of course not a t206
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T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theory's...TRIVIA QUIZ #2...1st correct answer wins T206
OK guys,
So far Joe McGinnity leads the pack. At this point, Nat (post # 341) appears to be the winner of this quiz. 56......Joe McGinnity (1899-1900) 52......Vic Willis (1898-1899) 48......Russ Ford (1910-1911) 37......Eddie Plank (1901-1902) 37......Ed Reulbach (1905-1906) 36......Cy Young (1890-1891) We'll see if there are any more responses by 9 PM (EST) tonite. Then, I will declare the winner. Thanks to everyone who participated in this quiz. TED Z . |
McGinnity seems right to me.
Great contest! |
T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theory's...TRIVIA QUIZ #2...1st correct answer wins T206
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Nat you are the Trivia King tonite. Email me and we'll talk about the T206 card that I'm going to send you..... tedzan11@comcast.net TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theory's....TRIVIA QUIZ...1st correct answer wins a T206
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Chris and Nick The T206 cards awarded to you for the correct answers to the Trivia quiz #1 and #2 will be in the mail to you today. Thanks for participating in these Trivia quizzes. TED Z . |
I received the card today. Thanks so much, Ted!
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Double post.
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Apologies if this is not the correct thread for this question, but I didn't want to start a new thread for what is probably a basic question.
My monster number is 1, so my T206 knowledge is very limited. I recently picked up a Bill Clymer in rough shape. I just happened to notice that there appears to be extra bright red spots on his face and hands. I have heard of missing red ink, but never extra red ink? Does anybody have an explanation as to what might cause this discoloration? Does it change any thing from a value standpoint? Apologies for the photo, I am currently unable to take a decent scan. |
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Hi The "redness" that appears on Clymer's cheeks, lips, and left hand varies from card to card. On some Clymer cards it is very faint, while others (like yours) it is more intense. Good luck on collecting the T206's. TED Z . |
INDEX to this T206 Reference thread's posts and story's....UPDATED
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpg Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206 An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series. Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ? Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts. In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle "error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11 Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints" Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards) Post #5......350/460 series backs identified Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series) Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's ! Post #93.....T206 "Proofs" Post #96.....UZIT checklist Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911) Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ? Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued) Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint) Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited) Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects...... Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors. However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s). TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...150WagnerX.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350x460x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ardP350x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...BatP460x11.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...06MAGIEx13.jpg 522 of the 524 subjects** which comprise a complete T206 set were printed with PIEDMONT backs. The PIEDMONT brand dominates the T206 population to the tune of 52 - 55%. The following is a complete list of the PIEDMONT cards with respect to the Series they were printed in. The SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 sub-set ranks 2nd in this category....as it consists of 469 subjects printed with this back. PIEDMONT 150 150 Series..................156 subjects Abbaticchio (brown sleeves) Alperman Ames (hands at chest) Ames (portrait) Ball (New York) Bates Beaumont Bell (hands over head) Bender (portrait) Bergen (bat) Birmingham Bowerman Bradley (portrait) Bransfield Bresnahan (portrait) Bridwell (portrait-no cap) M. Brown (Cubs) M. Brown (portrait) G. Brown (Chicago Nat'l) Burch (batting) Camnitz (arms folded) Chance (red portrait) Chase (pink portrait) Chase (white cap) Chesbro Cicotte Clarke (portrait) Clarke (bat) JJ Clarke Cobb (green) Cobb (bat on shoulder) Conroy (fielding) Coveleski Crandall (no cap) Crawford (throwing) Criger Criss Dahlen (Boston Nat'l) George Davis (Chicago) Harry Davis (A's) Delehanty (Washington) Devlin Donlin (fielding) Donlin (seated) Donohue Donovan (portrait) Dooin Doolin Dougherty (portrait) L. Doyle (throwing) Durham Elberfeld (New York) Evers (bat-blue sky) Evers (portrait) Ewing Ferris Flick Ganley Gibson Gilbert Goode Griffith (portrait) Hahn Hemphill Herzog (New York) Hinchman (Cleveland) Isbell Jacklitsch Jennings (portrait) Johnson (portrait) F. Jones (portrait) F. Jones (hands at hips) Tom Jones Jordan (portrait) Joss (portrait) Karger Keeler (portrait) Keeler (bat) Killian (pitching) Kleinow (bat) Kling Konetchy (glove high) Lajoie (portrait) Lajoie (throwing) Lake (New York) Leach (portrait) Leifield (pitching) Liebhardt Lindaman Lobert Lumley Lundgren (Cubs) Magie (portrait)....[ERROR] Magee (portrait) Manning (bat) Marquard (hands at side) Mathewson (portrait) Mathewson (white cap) McGraw (portrait-no cap) McGraw (pointing) McIntyre (Brooklyn) McQuillan (ball in hand) Merkle (portrait) Mullin (throwing) Murphy (throwing) Nicholls (hands on knees) Niles Oldring (fielding) O'Leary (portrait) Overall (portrait) Owen Parent Pastorius Pattee Pelty (horizontal) Plank Powell Powers Reulbach (glove) Ritchey Rucker (portrait) Schaefer (Detroit) Schlei (catching) Schmidt (throwing) Schulte (front view) Seymour (batting) Shaw (St Louis Nat'L) Sheckard (no glove) Shipke F. Smith (Chicago) Spade Spencer Stahl (no glove) Steinfeldt (portrait) Stone Stovall (portrait) Sullivan L. Tannehill (Chicago) Tenney Tinker (portrait) Tinker (hands on knees) Turner Waddell (portrait) Waddell (throwing) Honus Wagner Wagner (bat on left) Wallace Walsh Weimer Doc White (portrait) Wilhelm (hands at chest) Williams Willis (portrait) Wiltse (portrait-no cap) CYoung (portrait) CYoung (bare hand) ** Note......The Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis variations) were printed only with POLAR BEAR backs. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
PIEDMONT 350
350-only Series..................Major League subjects = 123 Abstein Arellanes Atz Barbeau Barry (A's) Beck Becker Bender (trees) Bescher (portrait) Bliss Bresnahan (bat) G. Brown (Washington) Burns Bush Byrne Campbell Carrigan Charles Collins (A's) Cree Dahlen (Brooklyn) Demmitt (New York) Dineen Donovan (throwing) Doolan (fielding) Downey (fielding) Joe Doyle (NY Nat'L)......[ERROR] Joe Doyle (New York) Dubuc Dunn (Brooklyn) Dygert Easterly Egan Elberfeld (portrait-Washington) Engle Evans Ferguson Fiene (portrait) Fiene (throwing) Fletcher Fromme Gasper Graham (Boston) Graham (St Louis) Gray Groom Hartsel Hoblitzell Hoffman (St Louis) Hofman Howard (Chicago) Howell (portrait) Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands at mouth) Hulswitt Hunter Jones (Detroit) Killian (portrait) Kleinow (catching--New York) Knabe Knight (portrait) Knight (bat) Krause (portrait) Krause (pitching) Kroh Laporte Lennox Livingstone Lord Maddox Marquard (portrait) Marshall Mattern McAleese McBride McCormick Mc Elveen McIntyre (Detroit) McLean Milan Miller (Pittsburg) Mitchell (Cinci) Moran (Chicago) Moriarty Mowery Mullen (portrait) Murray (bat) Myers (bat) Myers (fielding) Nicholls (bat) Oakes O'Hara (New York) Paskert Perring Pfeister (seated) Phelps Phillippe Purtell Quinn Raymond Rhoades (arm extended) Rhoades (hands at chest) Rhodes Rossman Schmidt (portrait) Scott F. Smith (Chicago--white cap) Snodgrass (bat) Speaker Stanage Starr Stephens Street (portrait) Summers Sweeney (Boston) J. Tannehill (Washington) Thomas Titus Unglaub Warhop Willett Wilson Zimmerman 350-only Series..................Minor League subjects = 86 Abbott Adkins Anderson Armbruster Arndt Barger Barry (Milwaukee) Batch Beckley Blackburne Brain Brashear Burchell Burke Butler Carr Casey Cassidy Chappelle Clark Clancy Clymer Collins (Minneapolis) Congalton Cravath Cross Davidson Delehanty Dessau Dorner Downs Dunn (Baltimore) Flanagan Freeman Ganzel Grimshaw Hall Hallman Hannifan Hayden Hinchman (Toledo) Hoffman (Providence) Jackson Kelley Kisinger Kruger Lattimore Lavender Lennox Lundgren (KC) Malarkey Maloney McGann McGinley McGinnity McGlynn Milligan Mitchell (Toronto) Moeller Moran (Providence) Nattress Oberlin O'Brien O'Neill Phelan Pickering Poland Puttman Quillen Randall Ritter Rudolph Schirm Schlafly Schreck Shannon Sharpe Shaw (Providence) Slagle Smith (Buffalo) Strang Taylor Thielmann White (Buffalo) Wright Irv Young Southern League Series..................48 subjects Bastian Bay Bernhard Breitenstein Carey Coles Cranston Ellam Foster Fritz Greminger Guiheen Hart (Little Rock) Hart (Montgomery) Helm Hickman Hooker Howard (Savannah) Jordan (Atlanta) Kiernan King Lafitte Lentz Lipe Manion McCauley Miller Molesworth Mullaney Orth Otey Paige Perdue Persons Reagan Revelle Rockenfeld Ryan Seitz Shaughnessy Sid Smith (Atlanta) Smith (Shreveport) Stark Thebo Thornton Violat Westlake White (Houston) Information on the PIEDMONT 350/460 series and the 460-only series will follow. TED Z . |
Ted - I think the 350-only minor league list needs Moran (Providence) in place of Maddox.
Thanks for putting together these lists. Great information. |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...edHINDUx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...gsSGC60x12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg A sample of 6 subjects from the 350/460 series Initially, these 63 subjects were printed with PIEDMONT 350 backs. Circa Fall 1910, American Lithographic continued printing these guys with 460 series backs (AB 460, BL 460, CY 460, LENOX, UZIT, red HINDU, PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42, etc.) Illustrated here is my concept of the 72-card sheet depicting 66 subjects (including the 6 super-prints). The arrangement of these cards is arbitrary, however it is valid, as it is based on the fact that all of these cards were printed with the "apple green" SOVEREIGN 350 backs. Three of these guys (Joe Doyle, Simon Nicholls, Bob Rhoades) were not continued into the 460 series, since their Major League careers had ended. v.................................... Six super-prints ....................................v http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erprints9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...obConDav9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...erprints9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yLDoyElb9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raDouDow9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...osLajLak9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...MurpNich9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...aMcInMul9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lPfeReul9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eySnoSta9x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...trCYoSte9x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lWillWhi9x.jpg PIEDMONT 350-460 350/460 Series..................63 subjects Ames (hands over head) Baker Bender (no trees) Berger Bradley (bat) M. Brown (Chicago) Burch (fielding) Chance (yellow portrait) Chase (blue portrait) Chase (dark cap) Cobb (red portrait) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) Davis (A's) Crawford (bat) Donlin (bat) Doolan (bat) Dougherty (arm in air) Downey (bat) Larry Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Evers (bat-yellow sky) Griffith (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (both hands) Johnson (pitching) Jordan (bat) Joss (pitching) Kleinow (Boston) Konetchy (glove low) Lajoie (bat) Lake (no ball) Leach (cap) Leifield (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) Mathewson (dark cap) McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) McQuillan (bat) Mullin (bat) Murphy (bat) O'Leary (hands on knees) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Seymour (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Snodgrass (catching) Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (fielding) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) White (pitching) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (bat) Willis (throwing) Wiltse (throwing) CYoung (glove) TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
350/460 series backs
A picture is worth 1000 words......so, here are the 22 tobacco advertisement backs that are available on the T206 Subjects in the 350/460 Series...... 460-type backs http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...series25xx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...factory42b.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...LENOXx37_1.jpg ............. Factory #42 ............. 350-type backs http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DRUMx25b_1.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CxSC350x25.jpg Assorted backs http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Tolstoi25x.jpg Stay tuned for the PIEDMONT 460-only Series info TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist
460-only series
The 460-only T206 cards were issued in late 1910 thru early 1911. American Lithographic documents appear to place the last T206 press runs in Feb - Mar 1911. The AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, UZIT, red HINDU, LENOX, and PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 cards were printed in the final press runs of T206's. Two print runs make up the 460-only series. The 1st group includes the 12 subjects which I refer to as the "Exclusive 12". These 12 guys were printed separately on their own sheet. I base this hypothesis on several factors. Foremost being that these 12 subjects are the only ones in the 460-only series of 46 subjects found with the red HINDU backs. The 2nd group lists the other 34 subjects in this series. PIEDMONT 460 460-only Series..................46 subjects Group 1 (Exclusive 12) Crandall (portrait-cap) Devore Duffy Ford Gandil Geyer Hummel McGraw (glove at hip) Pfeffer Sheckard (glove) Tannehill (Chicago) Wheat Group 2 Abbaticcio (blue sleeves) Ball (Cleveland) Bell (pitching) Bergen (catching) Bescher (arms above) Bridwell (portrait-cap) Camnitz (arms at side) Camnitz (arms over head) Chance (bat) Chase (trophy) Doyle (portrait) Frill Herzog (Boston Nat'l) Howell (hands at waist) Lake (with ball) Latham Marquard (follow thru) McGraw (portrait-cap) Merkle (throwing) Meyers (portrait) Murray (portrait) Needham Oldring (bat) Overall (blue sky) Payne Schaefer (Washington) Schulte (back view) Schlei (portrait) Schlei (bat) Seymour (portrait) H. Smith (Brooklyn) Stovall (bat) Tinker (bat on shoulder) Wiltse (portrait-cap) Illustrated here is my concept of an Exclusive 12 printed sheet....based on American Lithographic's 19-inch wide press. And a standard size 19" x 24" cardboard sheet. .. v ............................................ 19" x 24" sheet .............................................v http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...96cards38x.jpg TED Z . |
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Hi Rich Thanks for catching the Moran omission. Haste makes waste when doing lots of "cut-n-paste" :) And, thanks for the kind words. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theorys....new TRIVIA QUIZ..1st correct answer wins T206
This T206 trivia quiz, I think may be somewhat tougher than the previous ones on this thread. Unless one of you Net54 T206 geniuses are already aware of it.
There is one (and only one) T206 subject in the set that was not printed with a period after it's team letter Y in it's caption. Can you identify this T206 subject (and it's pose) ? First correct answer wins a T206 card. TED Z . |
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Great question--is it Wiltse (pitching)? I looked through some cards and initially thought it was a trick question--Crandall (cap) has "New York" spelled out, but then I noticed that Devore, Ford, and McGraw (G@H) all have this. |
1 Attachment(s)
Hooks Wiltse (Pitching)
:) Of course he was at the end of going through entire set ..... :p Attachment 311467 |
Looks like NJ's edit beat my initial response ...........
............. way to go NJ !!!! ............. ;) |
Nice going N.J. and Scott. I couldn't find anyone missing the period.
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One and only one?
Now wait a second, before we declare any winners . . . What about all of the players for Jersey City, Kansas City and Montgomery? Their team names end in Y. The team names on their cards are in all capital letters. There’s no period after the Y at the end of their team names. The question didn’t say the team had to be New York or be abbreviated. What do you say, Ted? Do I win? :-)
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T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theorys....new TRIVIA QUIZ..1st correct answer wins T206
NJ Dunkin is the winner of this quiz and the T206 card.
Email me NJ....and we'll talk about the T206 card that I'm going to send you..... tedzan11@comcast.net http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sePitching.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ign350x25b.jpg Quote:
TED Z . |
INDEX to this T206 Reference thread's posts and story's....UPDATED
.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpg Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206 An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series. Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ? Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts. In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle "error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11 Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints" Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards) Post #5......350/460 series backs identified Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series) Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's ! Post #93.....T206 "Proofs" Post #96.....UZIT checklist Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911) Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ? Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued) Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint) Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited) Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects...... Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005 In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors. However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s). TED Z . |
T206 Reference....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005
* * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * *
https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...150WagnerX.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SC150x30xz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...06MAGIEx13.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mont350x13.jpg It's interesting to look back on what our thinking was regarding the Wagner, Plank, Magie, and Joe Doyle Nat'L cards 12+ years ago. Check-out this Net54 thread (Oct 8, 2005)...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=78693 It is early Net54 threads (such as this one) that "sparked" our imagination and research which have resulted in developing a keen understanding of the complexities of the T206 "Monster". Any one here want to reminisce some more about this subject......feel free to chime in. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theorys....new TRIVIA QUIZ..1st correct answer wins T206
This quiz involves 2 ballplayers which were not featured in the T206 set.
Although, they should have been in this set. Can you identify these 2 guys ? And, explain the strange situation why they were traded for each other ? ? TED Z . |
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Just looked up that deal. Who would have thought that Joe Jackson would be a player to be named later?
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T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theorys....new TRIVIA QUIZ..1st correct answer wins T206
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You correctly guessed the 2 ballplayers that were involved in one of the most bizarre trades in BB history. Email me and we'll talk about the T206 card which I will send you..... tedzan11@comcast.net http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...lord1910WC.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...NewOrleans.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...JacksonNOb.jpg Bristol Lord traded (July 23, 1910) by the Cleveland Naps to the Philadelphia A's for a player to be named later. July 30, 1910, the Philadelphia A's sent Shoeless Joe Jackson to the Cleveland Naps to complete the trade. Connie Mack was a great Manager with a keen talent for recruiting some great ballplayers (especially from the College ranks) for 50 years. However, Connie Mack certainly did not give Shoeless Joe a chance to show his extraordinary hitting ability with the A's. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ackprogram.jpg TED Z . |
Connie Mack
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...niemacke96.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ConnieMack.jpg
Connie Mack believed that ballplayers in College received better training **......than the ones in the Minor League Farm system. Connie had a keen sense of talent, and he (and his brother) would scout out young recruits from College campuses. Here is a list of the A's in the T206 set who started on College teams...... Jack Barry (Holy Cross) Chief Bender (Dickinson) Eddie Collins (Columbia) Harry Davis (Girard College) Harry Krause (St Mary's College) Simon Nicholls (Maryland) Eddie Plank (Gettysburg College) Doc Powers (Holy Cross) and, missing from the T206 set Andy Coakley (Holy Cross) Jack Coombs (Colby College)......(1910 W-L = 31-9, ERA = 1.30) ** Note....Connie Mack (the Early Years of Baseball), Norman Macht Hey guys....I highly recommend this book. While reading it, you'll imagine the guys in your T206 set come alive. Almost every player from that era is covered in this book. TED Z . |
I read somewhere that Connie Mack knew exactly what he had in Joe Jackson. He basically gave him away as a gift to Charles Somers, owner of the Cleveland Naps.
Without Somers support, the American League would have folded in its early years. Around 1910, Somers was struggling financially, so Connie Mack sent him Joe Jackson as a gift. There should probably be a Charles Somers monument in every American League ballpark :) I don't remember where I read this, but I believe it was Connie Mack's own words. Maybe someone else can confirm this? |
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Still, if they could keep Comiskey's name on the ballpark for 80 more years, perhaps they've forgiven Jackson as well. |
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David With all due respect to you, I cannot buy this bit regarding the American League folding. In the first decade of the 20th Century, the American League under the command of Ban Johnson outdrew the National League in attendance by wide margins. For example, check out these headlines of Opening Day at Shibe Park (April 12 1909) in Philadelphia.......................... http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...DayShibe25.jpg Shoeless Joe Jackson's performance with Greenville (.346) in 1908, and Savannah (.358) in 1909 impressed Connie Mack. However, Joe Jax just couldn't "hack" it playing with the College bred guys on the A's. In part, because some of them were not too kind to this "rebel rookie" who they considered "illiterate". Believe it or not....some were still "fighting the Civil War in the beginning of the 20th Century. You can check-out this fact....during the T206 era there were very few Major Leaguers that hailed from the "Deep South" (SC, GA, ALA, Miss). Of course, Ty Cobb was one, and therein lies a lot of his problems. Connie Mack saw a chance to recover Bristol Lord from the Cleveland Naps, so he traded away Joe Jax. Very quickly, Joe's Cleveland teammates took a liking to him and his performance reflected this as he batted .408 in 1911. That's the story, as I understand it. TED Z . |
INDEX to this T206 Reference thread's posts and story's....UPDATED
.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpg Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206 An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series. Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ? Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts. In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle "error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11 Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints" Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards) Post #5......350/460 series backs identified Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series) Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's ! Post #93.....T206 "Proofs" Post #96.....UZIT checklist Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911) Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ? Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued) Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint) Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s) Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited) Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects...... Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005 Posts #369 >> 376.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206 Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors. However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s). TED Z . |
Jantz Morey
Thanks to Net54, I first met Jantz Morey at the 2008 National. And, I looked forward to each subsequent National to get together with him.
We became instant friends, talking T206 cards and trading them. Our conversation started by Jantz bringing up the subject of my "Elite 11" thread (posted in the Fall of 2007). He was fascinated by these rare PIEDMONT 350 cards. He was happy to show me 8 of these cards that he had acquired in less than a year. Plus he had two duplicates (Lindaman and Mullin). I mentioned to him that I was missing Mullin with the PIEDMONT 350 back. He gave me his extra Mullin and did not want anything in return. That's the kind of guy Jantz was. Subsequently, I returned the favor by sending him POLAR BEAR cards for his T206 run. At the National's, we would talk T206's for what seemed like hours. Jantz really impressed me with his keen insight into the complexities of the T206 set. We would delve into the nitty-gritty details of this set. Also, Jantz loved finding printing anomalies in T206's. He would contact me when he found one, so we could compare notes. Here's an example where he noticed that occasionally a Mullin card would be found with a printer's mark above the arm. Between the two of us, we found 8 of these cards with this identical printer's mark. .............................................v http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...0SOVx50x_1.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...SOVx50bx_1.jpg There is so much more that I could write about regarding our 11 year old friendship. I still cannot believe Jantz is not with us anymore. GOD Bless his soul....and, may GOD comfort his family. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theorys...New TRIVIA Quiz, 1st correct answer wins T206
Approx. 12 weeks before a tragic event in BB....there was an occurrence in Griffith Stadium which eerily portends this tragic event.
#1....What "tragic event" am I referring to ? #2....can you describe this occurrence in Washington ? Note...... I changed the time between these 2 events, and corrected the Stadium where the 1st event occurred. The story remains the same. So, give this another try. Please excuse my error due to my hasty posting. TED Z T206 Reference . |
I assume the tragic event in question was Carl Mays hitting and killing Ray Chapman with a pitch, but I have no idea what the foreshadowing event might have been. Interested in finding out.
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Your answer for the 1st question is correct....Ray Chapman died Aug 17, 1920 after having been struck by a ball pitched by Carl Mays the previous day. Stay tuned for the story regarding the 2nd question. You'll find it very interesting. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theorys...New TRIVIA Quiz, 1st correct answer wins T206
Well, is this quiz that tough......or is there just no interest in this topic ? ?
Come on, some of you guys on this forum are pretty damn smart, so I'm puzzled that no one has offered an answer here. Noy has got us off to a good start with Ray Chapman. I'll give you guys 2 more hours to figure out the answer. Trust me, you will find the final answer quite thought-provoking. TED Z T206 Reference . |
Did a player get struck by lightning during a game? I vaguely recall that happened around the time Chapman passed away
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T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theorys...New TRIVIA Quiz, 1st correct answer wins T206
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On May 26, 1920 Ray Chapman was at bat vs Walter Johnson (who was pitching in relief) in the late innings. The fog started rolling into Griffith Stadium. Chapman, who usually crowded the plate, had two quick strikes against him. At that point he stepped out of the batter's box and told the Umpire that he cannot see the ball. He refused to face another pitch from Walter Johnson for fear of his life. The Umpire insisted he get back in the batters box. Then Walter Johnson approached the Umpire, handed him the ball, and told him he was done pitching. Now, I ask you....is this occurrence some sort of strange omen....or what ? TED Z T206 Reference . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg This topic has intrigued me ever since I started collecting T206's in 1981. My following theories regarding this subject is based on my experience collecting uncut sheets of Goudey's, Play Ball's, Leaf's, Bowman's, & Topps cards. Also, I have written articles on uncut sheets in The Baseball Cards Magazine, SCD, VCBC, and Old Cardboard. So, I will start with American Lithographic's (ALC) original printing of the T206 cards (circa Spring/Summer 1909). ALC operated large printing presses for Artwork and Advertising Banners. My research indicates that ALC used 19" inch track presses to print the T206 cards. These same size presses were used to print the T205's, T213's, T214's, t215's, etc. cards OK, let's start with the structure of the T206 set. The very first press run comprises of 12 subjects (which includes the famous Wagner card). It's the group of T206's we refer to as the 150-only Series. 150-only Series ..http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yABBBDDx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...RPlaWag12x.jpg.. l<................................................. ....................... 19" inch wide sheet .................................................. .........................>l Furthermore, there are 144 additional subjects that comprise the 150 Series. And, 144 is certainly a factor of 12. A standard size sheet of cardboard in that era was 19" inch wide by 25" inches long. As many as 108 cards could be printed on this size sheet. For example, shown here is my concept of a printed sheet of the Exclusive 12 cards in the 460-only Series. It's been proven that this group of 12 subjects in this series of T206's was printed separately from the other subjects in the 460-only series. .. v ............................................ 19" x 25" sheet .............................................v http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...96cards38x.jpg Stay tuned for more specific info regarding how the "12 factor" figures into the printing of the various series in the T206 set. The Southern League series and the 350 Series will follow in the next post. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg Southern Leaguer series Originally, during the 150 series press runs, 34 - Southern Leaguers were printed. These 34 cards were issued with Brown HINDU backs. Then, ALC added 14 more Southern Leaguers. All 48 of these cards were printed in a 12 across x 4 row format. These were issued 1st with OLD MILL backs, followed by PIEDMONT 350 backs. 350 Series The 1910 COUPON set provides us an insight into the printing of T206's early in this series. Shown here is my simulated sheet of the 48 - Major Leaguers in the 1910 COUPON set. This sheet of 48 cards represents an early (circa Spring 1910) regular press run of T206 cards. ALC also used this T206 sheet to produce the 1910 COUPON cards. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sSheet12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Sheet12xxx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...sSheet12xx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eSheet12xx.jpg Stay tuned regarding how the "12 factor" figures into the printing of the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (No Frame) series, and the 460-only series in the next post. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) series "The AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) subjects were printed on a 36-card sheet." I posted this statement on Net54 quite a number of years ago. I was instantly questioned by another Net54 member who said there are 37 subjects in this series. I replied....Very true. However, when ALC initially printed this series there were 36 guys, which included Simon Nicholls. Nicholls retired from BB on Apr 25, 1910. Shortly afterwards, ALC replaced the Nicholls image on this 36-card sheet with Jake Stahl. My proof of this is by empirical means, and by Pop report data ** http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...cholsStahl.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...holsStahlB.jpg 460-only series This last series of T206's is comprised of 46 subjects. The Exclusive 12 guys and 34 other subjects. I contend that ALC printed these 34 subjects on a 36-card sheet. They Double-Printed (D-P) two subjects to fill out the 36-card sheet. This is standard practice in the printing trade. Which two guys were D-P ? From my experience putting together 5 - T206 sets, my best guess is Tinker was D-P. And, I tend to think Needham was also D-P. Perhaps, one of you will chime in here was some other guesses as to which two subjects may have been D-P. ** Note While I realize POP report data cannot be considered as absolute, I think it's fair to say that the POP data is representative of the relative availability of certain cards with respect to other cards within that group. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure
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http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg Continuing the "12 factor" in the printing of T206 sheets. It appears that the PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 cards were printed on a sheet formatted 12 cards across by 6 rows of cards down. Listed here are the 72 confirmed PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 cards. It has been my experience (and several serious collectors of this particular PIEDMONT back) that 72 cards complete this run. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tomline50x.jpg PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 confirmed list......72 subjects Ames (hands over head) Baker Bender (no trees) Berger Bradley (bat) M. Brown (Chicago) Burch (fielding) Chance (yellow portrait) Chase (blue portrait) Chase (dark cap) Chase (Trophy) Cobb (red portrait) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) Davis (A's) Crawford (bat) Donlin (bat) Doolan (bat) Dougherty (arm in air) Downey (bat) Larry Doyle (bat) Elberfeld (Washington-fielding) Evers (bat-yellow sky) Griffith (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jennings (both hands) Johnson (pitching) Jordan (bat) Joss (pitching) Kleinow (Boston) Konetchy (glove low) Lajoie (bat) Lake (no ball) Latham Leach (cap) Leifield (bat) Magee (bat) Manning (pitching) Marquard (follow thru) Mathewson (dark cap) McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) McQuillan (bat) Merkle (throwing) Mullin (bat) Murphy (bat) O'Leary (hands on knees) Overall (yellow sky) Pelty (vertical) Pfeister (throwing) Reulbach (no glove) Rucker (throwing) Schlei (portrait) Schlei (batting) Schaefer (Washington) Seymour (portrait) Seymour (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Snodgrass (catching) Stahl (glove) Steinfeldt (bat) Street (catching) Sweeney (fielding) Tinker (bat off shoulder) Wagner (bat on right) White (pitching) Wilhelm (bat) Willetts Willis (bat) Willis (throwing) Wiltse (throwing) Wiltse (portrait-cap) CYoung (glove) OK, there are more examples forthcoming which support the "12 factor". However, with the examples already presented here in these 4 posts, if you are not convinced that ALC printed the T206 sheets with 12 cards horizontally on a given sheet, then feel free to post your counter to my premise of how these cards were printed. The "12 factor" jives with the mathematical structure of the various T206 series. TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg Switching to tobacco sets other than the T206 for the moment. Here are examples of the "12 factor" as it applies to the T205 set and the 1910-1912 T215 set. The printing of the T205 set is quite complex. But, one series of this set is very clear. This series of T205's were printed circa Fall/Winter 1911............ T205 Minor Leaguers (12 subjects) ..http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...neecadfriX.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...merphecolX.jpg... .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eecadfriBx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rphecolBxx.jpg.. l<................................................. ....................... 19" inch wide sheet .................................................. .......................>l The 1910-1912 T215 RED CROSS set consists of 96 subjects. My guess is ALC printed the first run of these cards on a 48-card sheet in 1910. Followed by a 2nd printing of 48 different cards (circa 1911-1912). http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dCross50xb.jpg TED Z . |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...C150x30xxz.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ohnson208x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...t150x12xxx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yab350x19x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...CobbSGCx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ITxSGC30xx.jpg Now, let's consider the T206 group we refer to as the Elite 11. Actually, 12 subjects are in this group when we include the one Frank Schulte card with the rare PIEDMONT 350 back. Is this card a printer's anomaly, or was it legitimately issued ? Only time can provide us the answer to this question. So, for now this series of guys conform with the magic "12 factor". Elite 11.....plus Schulte http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...indaman12x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Schulte25x.jpg SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #649 (overprint) sheet The make-up of an early 150 Series sheet is known by virtue of the SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #649 overprinted cards. It is my firm opinion that the 34 subjects in this group were printed on a 36-card sheet, in which ALC included two Double-Printed (D-P) cards. The number "34" does not in any way fit into the 150 Series structure of 156 subjects. Regarding the two D-P cards, my 1st guess would be Johnson and Mathewson. Does anyone here want to venture a guess which 2 subjects were D-P ? http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...weetCap150.jpg .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Factory649.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...attyWCx25x.jpg TED Z . |
Hi Ted, thanks for always providing such top notch T206 information. I notice you say you “speculate” about such things as players next to each other on a sheet and other things. My question is, did the printers not keep records or have they all been destroyed? Sorry if this has been answered before.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure
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Thanks Greg, and, you ask a great question. Apparently, nothing was saved from American Litho's printing days of their various sets of tobacco cards (1909 - 1919). Millions and millions of cards were produced, and not even a single sheet of cards has been discovered. This is really very strange. The only example which I know of players horizontally adjacent to each other on a sheet is Chance (yellow portrait) and Cobb (red portrait), because I have seen a mis-cut T206 indicating this. Years ago I was in downtown Manhattan, so I ventured over to Park Ave. and E 19th Street where the American Lithographic building still stands. I entered it, hoping to find a showroom (or some kind of museum) displaying all the great stuff this great printing Company produced in the early 20th Century. What I found were many professional offices, but no showrooms and no displays of any kind. The only thing I got out that visit was this photo I took of the building's entrance. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg One of the competitors to American Lithographic (ALC) was Schmidt Lithography in San Francisco. They produced the OBAK cards. If you go to San Francisco, visit the museum that Schmidt Lithography has on display. It's a real shame that ALC did not do the same. TED Z . |
9 Attachment(s)
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There are several horizontal miscut T206's Here are the ones I have scans of... Stephens with a part Of Rossman Attachment 317936 Sheckard with Part of Goode, these two are also Neighbors on a plate scratch sheet. Attachment 317937 Attachment 317945 Bergen with part of Herzog (Boston) that Jantz picked up at last years national Attachment 317938 horizontal sheet mates can also be found on many of the ghosts... Attachment 317939 Attachment 317940 on scraps such as the test print scrap.... Attachment 317941 and on all of the plate scratch sheets Attachment 317943 Attachment 317944 |
Hi Ted,
Well worth reading is an article written by Andy Broome - Printing The Monster. The article explores the logistics of assembling the player permission and images needed to produce such an enormous checklist anticipated and the clever way it was done. The connection between Joseph P. Knapp, the founder and head of the American Lithographic Company, and James B. Duke, head of the American Tobacco Company, for the printing of nearly all T-cards inserted into ATC products. Explains the chromolithography process where T206 card sheets are passed through the printer six times for the six different layers of colors and the accuracy needed to keep perfect alignment. Blurry and ghost images as a result of any misalignment. Included in the engineering is the necessary ink color sequence of the layers in the printing. Beside the image of the entrance to the ALC building there are pictures of a 10 ton lithopress and cutters that cut finished cardsheets of the T206 cards. Published by Beckett Vintage Collector April, 2018. |
Thanks Jerry,
I will check out Andy Broome's article. TED Z . |
i always enjoy seeing the latest research uncovered by the plate scratches. awesome groundbreaking work patrick
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Hi Pat
Thanks for posting those horizontal mis-cut T206's. Many years ago I saw a horizontal mis-cut T206 with the Chance (yellow portrait) adjacent to the red Cobb. TED Z . |
Thanks Ronnie.
I've heard of the Chance/Cobb Ted but I have never seen the card or a scan. I think Brian W still has the Sheckard/Goode which I think is one of the coolest T206 cards. |
[QUOTE=Pat R;1782169]
Bergen with part of Herzog (Boston) that Jantz picked up at last years national Attachment 317938 I sold that one to Jantz. Sad to think I won't be seeing him again. |
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