The back scan has a cream back at the end. I guarantee they are gray backs. Sgc also labeled them as "Canadian" in the past.



"My verification team has informed me that we only recognize Red and Black backs on the label. Not Gray backs. "



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Ted that sucks!

At least they said they look at the house yellow tiger to determine if I should resubmit. Ha

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I didn't mean to question whether or not they were indeed gray backs. You have quite a collection of 52 Topps from as far as I can tell. I'm just trying to see what the difference is for myself and wondering why SGC might not want to recognize them. I also wonder if I might have some in my collection? I can't seem to find good comparison photos of these online anywhere. And PSA's photos don't appear to be particularly helpful. What about them makes them "gray"? Because from the ones I've seen, they don't look like the 1956 Topps where the colors are clearly distinguishable from white and gray backs. I must be missing something.

They are more noticeable in hand. You think that one is tough....trying examining 1968 Topps Milton Bradley vs Regular Topps.

IMHO The grading companies are in a world of hurt right now. And they have reached a point where people are just shoveling money at them. So it isn't a financial problem. It is a customer service and quality control issue. They simply don't have enough competent workers to keep up with demand.

"My verification team has informed me that we only recognize Red and Black backs on the label. Not Gray backs. "



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From a quick ebay search this seems to be accurate. They have 0 gray back SGC cards for sale and the only 2 that have sold recently were not labeled gray backs.

My 2 thoughts (not that they mean much)

1) Anyone who is expert enough to want and pay premiums for the gray back probably aren't going to need the label to verify that it is actually a gray back.

2) If the SGC drop down and your order/invoice showed "gray back" as a label distinction then they owe you a partial refund at the very least, since you paid to have them labeled under that pretense.

Out of curiosity who have you been corresponding with at SGC?
I've had nothing but good experience with their customer service in the past, including recently.



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From a quick ebay search this seems to be accurate. They have 0 gray back SGC cards for sale and the only 2 that have sold recently were not labeled gray backs.

My 2 thoughts (not that they mean much)

1) Anyone who is expert enough to want and pay premiums for the gray back probably aren't going to need the label to verify that it is actually a gray back.

2) If the SGC drop down and your order/invoice showed "gray back" as a label distinction then they owe you a partial refund at the very least, since you paid to have them labeled under that pretense.

Out of curiosity who have you been corresponding with at SGC?
I've had nothing but good experience with their customer service in the past, including recently.



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Your 2 centsbare appreciated !

It's some kid in customer service, Brent.

Yes I chose either "gray back" or "canadian" from their drop down menu with a note asking of they could label either all as gray back or all as canadian. The real shame was I sent the Frank house yellow tiger...gray back to them for proper labeling. It's as rare as a 52 Mantle in PSA 8 and they blew it!

I have half a dozen 1954 Topps Canadians I was going to send in to get holdered. Now I wonder if I should do that. As you said, there is an option for those in the SGC drop-down and they have graded and labeled them as such before.

Gray backs
 

The gray backs in lower condition easily sell for $500, and probably much more, compared to maybe $20 for the regular backs.

Not sure what they are doing over there
Thankfully their heads are so far up their ass they can see t206 backs from their throat.

"
Yellow Tiger is not a variation we acknowledge on the label. The card is correctly labeled"

I've disputed the entire credit card charge. $540 wasted.


Now that they are holdered and NOT labeled properly, I'm at risk breaking them out

Dealign with SGC lately has been bizarre, especially with regard to obscure issues. For a time after their move to the new pricing schedule, they sent back quite a few vintage Japanese baseball, Cuban league baseball, and soccer as issues they didn't grade. More recently, they've graded more of the obscure cards I've submitted (including some they rejected just a few months ago).

That said, I've found the grading pretty fair. There seems to be some compaction at the lower end of the scale, where cards I would have expected in the past to grade 2-3 are grade 1.1.5, but then again a few cards I was less confident about graded higher. So who knows?

Anyway, their turnaround time certainly can't be beat!

As far as grading I've noticed they went from not caring about centering, to quite strict on overall grade due to centering. Pretty weird, but it's their future.

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Can I see the Frank House Ted?

1952 topps Frank house Yellow Tiger gray back. Me thinks SGC would have had a nice card here for advertising had they labeled it appropriately. Likely as Rare as a psa 9 mantle, definately rarer than a wagner! Sadly not as valuable .... though the last one did five figures in a private sale.

They screwed the pooch. They wont miss my revenue. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c44bbbad36.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e661784f53.jpg

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Turnaround times at SGC are increasing. They're up to 16 business days now. More and more people are making the move over to SGC. I hope that trend continues. They're so much better than PSA in every aspect other than resale prices, in my opinion. But they're closing the gap with modern cards.

So...they are better than PSA except for the most important metric of all. Got it.

PS - I think Ted would disagree with you.

Weirdly that is very true. Planning a PSA group sub any time soon?

We are not all sellers or flippers, so many of us would disagree that is the most important metric, but I get your point.

PSA just dropped their express service fees back to $150, so that's something.

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I REFUSE to pay $30 a card to get cards graded. I am waiting for the quarterly specials to open back up. I have over 2 long boxes of raw cards. Sports. Non Sports. I am sure I have something, to meet another swinging sixties, rocking seventies, or roaring 40's.

i used SGC a few times for things i want to keep (the black slab look is awesome), and they did a nice job. but not sure i see this financial gap closing as you say. aside from iconic stuff, all the modern SGC cards i see are going for way less than PSA (i don't have time to do a lengthy study, but the difference appears significant on items i've seen).

Its only a difference of 1000× sales price, nothing to see here. Akin to grading a t206 Magie or doyle error wrong

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Ted, are you gonna keep it labeled wrong and sell it as a Yellow Tiger anyway?? That is what I may wind up doing with a Milton Bradley Nolan Ryan rookie they graded as a Topps. Anyone with two eyes can see mine is a Milton Bradley. Anyone with two eyes can see yours is a yellow tiger.

As a buyer, I’m totally fine with the gap right now.

Depends, psa said I can have it either as gray back OR yellow tiger. I'm not sure if both will fit on the label,

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That depends on how you define the most important metric though. If your goal is profit from a card that is worth ~$5k raw by getting it graded, then perhaps the resale value of getting it grades by PSA vs SGC is most important. But that's not the only relevant factor in the equation to me. You also have to take into account the cost of grading, the turnaround times, and the actual grades themselves. Recently, PSA has been extremely harsh with their grades. To the point where what used to be a 9 is now an 8, and what used to be a 5 is now a 4 or sometimes even a 3. I've also seen numerous cards with minor creases that used to get 4s now getting 1s and 1.5s. If you were to submit these same cards to SGC and received a more fair and consistent grade (which they have definitely been more consistent and reliable recently, in my experience) then the resale value of an SGC 8 vs a PSA 7 all of a sudden matters. It's not just about comparing SGC 10 vs PSA 10 prices. Sometimes it is, but it's often not.

Also, what if you're looking to get this graded for your PC? Maybe you don't want to shell out $300 to have it graded? And what if you're looking to hold it for 5+ years? If SGC continues to gain market share, then the price gap between them and PSA will continue to narrow. 5 years down the line, the differences might not be as drastic.

Resale prices matter, but it's not always an apples to apples comparison. I can't tell you how many truly perfect cards I've had over the years in PSA 9 holders. Sure, most 9s have some minor flaw, but there is no shortage of gem mint cards in PSA 9 holders. I've cracked out a lot of them and crossed them over to BGS or SGC and they were given the gem mint grades they deserved and ended up selling for significantly more than they would have in their PSA slab.

If I have time, maybe I'll post a thread showing the data and how it has changed over time. I've definitely been watching it though, and the gap is narrowing. But there's still a significant gap between a PSA 10 and an SGC 10. However, there's also a significant gap between a PSA 10 and a gold label SGC 10 in the other direction. The narrowing of that gap though is what interests me the most. How long might it take for them to catch up, if they ever could, remains to be seen. But if I'm looking to buy a nice copy of a high-end card that I intend to hold for at least 5 to 10 years, I'm buying it in an SGC holder because not only will I get the gains of whatever the future market value of that card is, I will also get the future gains of SGC's closing of the gap in pricing as they continue to gain market share (if that indeed continues, and I anticipate that it will).

My sense is that this narrowing is mostly due to PSA shutting most of their service down. I imagine that once they are accepting regular and economy orders again, things will trend back to how they have been.

Red Back and Black back refer to ink. Gray backs refers to a rare card stock in one series of 1952 Topps. The overwhelming majority of cards in that series have a cream colored stock. I think there was some confusion about the terms. Hopefully this clears it up.

Thanks Scott.

I've filed a dispute on my CC as their dropdown has the choices for variations, but they will not honor their own system. I would not have sent them in if I had known this. Now I risk damage cracking them out, or face questions listing them as gray backs in their holder. Lose/lose and out 600$

has anyone had a recent SGC submission?
what is their current timing from receipt of cards to the grading stage?

I sent in a small 9 card standard submission that was received on 9/21. It remains in "Received" status.

interesting... they were turning around in 10-14 days for a while. I doubt there are more submissions coming in now .... did they fire employees?

I sent 7 cards that were received 9/9. They just updated to ‘post grade processing’ today, 10/14.

i sent in 2 orders over the past few weeks. they are saying 45-50 business days now - not sure if that's accurate. my oldest one was received on sept 20, still in "received" mode.

Yes, they are receiving more submissions now. And you should expect the trend to continue until PSA reopens the floodgates. SGC is gaining significant market share. They are still hiring, not firing.

My last order with SGC was received on 9/2, graded on 10/4, and shipped back to me on 10/5.

I sent 10 T206s to SGC last week. My only choices of service were 45-60 days for $30 each or $2500 for 3 business days turnaround ( I assume that's for all 10 cards ) ?

good to hear that, but are you guessing? or do you know this to be the case... I find it hard to believe that submissions anywhere are higher than a few months ago..

SGC received my three cards on September 9th and they were graded on October 13th. They are shipping them back today. Since I live only 30 minutes away I should receive them tomorrow.

I know this to be the case that their submissions are increasing. Or rather, I take them at their word for it. Peter, the CEO, recently posted a video on social media where he talks about their decision to increase their promised turn-around times from 25-30 days to 45-60 days because they are getting slammed with an increase in submissions. It also aligns anecdotally with what I'm seeing on other forums and chat groups I've been in where a lot of submitters are making the transition over to SGC now because their turnaround times and customer service have been so good lately. Plus, the gap in sales prices between them and PSA has been narrowing. All are good signs for SGC. Also worth noting is that a lot of people were holding out in anticipation that PSA would have reopened bulk grading by now. I think they're slowly realizing that this actually isn't going to happen any time soon, so they're more willing to try out other options now.

great intel. thank you. however I do not see any demand for SGC in the secondary market outside of pre-war. I was just offered a 40% discount on a perfect SGC 9 gretzky listed card I have and could not get a dollar more. the general population of collectors does not respect SGC unfortunately. the pre-war collector is typically more knowledgeable, which is why SGC=PSA in pre-war resale generally.

yup, totally agree. it's actually not a horrible idea to buy up a bunch of SGC vintage/modern stuff and submit to PSA down the line (assuming one thinks they'll reopen bulk at some point, which i figure they will - at the very least, they need that registry customer who wants to slab a candy maldonado card).

The registry is the reason for the price differential. PSA has a great registry; SGC doesn’t.

has anyone received an order back from SGC in the last week? If so, what was the date SGC received the order? I am trying to get the most updated timing as I am still waiting.

I'm waiting on an order received on 10/11...

Apparently grades are posting now for the $30 sub level that were received on 9/24.

I’m waiting on a sub received on 10/4/21.

Added: In Receive status currently.

And I will update any changes as I see them with dates.

Butch,
Let us know when yours goes post grading please, I’ll be excited as my order was received 10/5, thx & Cheers

Colton

Thank you for all of these responses.

If they are posting grades now for 9/24 received orders, then my 9/30 should post in the next few days....

they must getting a ton of submissions, because these turnaround times are beyond 30days... that is longer than what it was in late Sept.