Thoughts on 2025 National Experience?
 

I’m sitting at the airport getting ready to fly back home and I’m going through the cards and experience of the 2025 National.

People: This year i met more people than I ever have at a card event/show and got to spent 30+ minutes with many people exchanging stories. By far my best experience from a community perspective.

Cards: To be honest i was under whelmed by the cards I was able to get. There are great cards there but many vendors who were 80%+ over comps. The big card I got could have been shipped to me. From a card perspective I’m not sure I justify the national related expenses based on the card I bought.

Final verdict: I’m glad I went and enjoyed my time at the show and with people. I plan on going next year, but with very tempered expectations about coming home with cards at market prices. I have heard rumors the hotels within a few mile radius of the Donald E Stephens center already for next year.

I would love to hear what everyone’s thoughts and experiences were of the 2025 National

I live 20 min. from the venue, so that's a big plus. I've seen none of the problems mentioned here during the Cleveland show. It's crowded, but the first two hours each day are pretty open. I’ve paid fair retail for my purchases; I didn’t expect any great deals — there’s a lot of cost and effort setting up at this show, so I understand reasonable markup. I’ve walked away from a good number of dealers asking stupid prices — that’s their right.

On Monday I picked up a grail item from a Net54 member in a parking lot, got a great card on Wednesday, and an awesome rare photo on Thursday. After a day off, I'll be there on Saturday for an autograph signing, to pick up three items at CGC, and give it all one more look with my son.

I personally wouldn't travel for the event, but I'll go every time it's here in Chicagoland as long as I'm here.

How were the dealer sticker prices?

It varied vendor by vendor. 60% of the vintage guys were high but would come down to near comp prices. Which I’m ok with. However the other 40% were like 80% over comps. I showed multiple vendors cards they had, but their price was nowhere near comps. In those cases i was told “I don’t care, someone will pay my price if they want the card.”

The National is the one show where the dealers have the advantage. Human nature is that a customer doesn’t want to drive hours / take a flight, pay $30.00 to get in… just to go home without much. When you go through all that effort, for some people what is it to them if they pay a little extra… dealers know that.

Another consideration is dealers at the national are not looking for quick money to fix their car, etc… These are serious business people who don’t need to move merchandise if they don’t get the price(s) they are looking for.

Bottom line- if you’re looking to buy unique items in person, meet friends, then yes, the National is a great show. Otherwise you might be better off at local weekend shows if they exist in your area.

I spent 5 hours there on Thursday.

I really enjoyed myself. I wasn't looking to spend any money and in fact only bought some Ryne Sandberg coins and buttons and a little Johnny Bench statue.

I loved seeing some prewar cards I've never seen in person and spent more time looking at memorabilia than I did the last time I was there about 8 years ago when I was actively collecting. It was amazing to me what a spectacle it’s become, but I was happy with the amount of pre-war and vintage cards and items I saw.
I was happy to meet Lee Behrens and Pete Ullman. Pete’s Dots Miller tee-shirt was one of the highlights for me :). Wanted to say hi to you Scott Russell, but every time I walked by you were busy and it just didn’t work out.
Anyway, I was lucky to get a great price on a round trip flight from ATL last minute, flew in and out the same day, and I do believe I would do it again.

The National has changed since the Covid boom. It's more of an expo rather than a convention. There's a lot of new money/investing/businesses created by the hobby - grading, repackers, trade nights, breaks, gambling, comp apps, etc,... Eventually, the long time National dealers will be too old/pass away and these younger people (ones in line for trade nights) will get their tables. The short version is that I see the National and the Fanatics Expo merging. The process will take some number of years, but I see it coming.

Sorry I missed you, it's been insanely busy which is a little unusual for someone not even selling! Over 100 new sign ups and a ton of consignments.

I have been here since Wednesday and I am headed back to the show today. I will leave tomorrow. My last National was in 1991 so it has been many years and I was very young back then. I bought a card off of a member here and gave him a deposit 7 months ago, I finally got the card on Thursday after a 7 month wait as I didn't want the card shipped to be due to where I live. I also had the pleasure of meeting Leon and had a nice conversation with him. I am having an amazing time so far. I expect today to be the same. I flew across the world to be here, I live in Vietnam. I hope everyone is having an amazing time!

I think we have the winner of Most Miles Traveled for the National — awesome!

When people say “look at these lines …. Our hobby is healthy…” I always want to ask “which hobby?” To me the National is an confluence
of about 6 or 8 hobbies, most of which have little or nothing to do with each other.

Good show for me. From a card perspective, my over/under is typically 4-5 cards added to PC from the National. I ended up with 15 but also passed on a few that would've moved some of my sets because the prices were a bit heavy.

I was lucky enough to score a dealer pass so I was on the show floor about 5 hours before VIP on Monday. It wasn't crowded at all and it really changed my experience. Wednesday when the VIP and general admission were entered it wasn't too bad either. I went back Thursday afternoon for about 3 hours and it was really busy. I was happy at the end of Thursday to call it a show!

For me, the show is as much about seeing people I've met the past decade or more while collecting as it is buying things. I host a dinner each year and it's definitely a highlight for me and many of the others who can make it.

All in all, I still think that venue is likely the best for the event even though it can get crowded. Doubtful any of the other venues would be better. Sure some dealers (or maybe many of them) have aggressive pricing but it doesn't generally feel any different to me than any of the other larger shows I've attended.

Already looking forward to returning for 2026!

Finally finished – and exhausted – from my three-day tour.

Compared to two years ago in Rosemont, there was a greater quantity and range of material, especially pre-WWI. Many more uncommon to rare backs for candy, tobacco, magazines, you name it. I saw five or six tables with stacks of Old Judges. (Two stacks of at least four counts as plural.) I think I saw two last time. There was also more traffic at the vintage tables than two years ago, I had to wait to talk to somebody half the time instead of only a few times. It seems like every other dealer I talked to had just picked up a big collection within the past few weeks. The balance of folks was more like the outside world, too. It's amazing how a shift of just (probably) a couple percentage points makes it feel like so much less of a sausagefest.

It was by FAR the best show we've ever had. Consignments, as well as sign ups and contacts for future consignments. We were busy almost continuously until Sunday, helping people get a better look at items on preview, explaining the auction process etc.

It was also run incredibly well run from an exhibitor perspective. Instead of hours inline to load in I was in unloaded and done in a half hour. The major complaint last time in Chicago was the ridiculous AC situation. This time it was borderline cold. Load out was equally amazing compared to previous nationals. Almost to the degree that makes you wonder what the hell was so different this time and why couldn't it have been done right before? Kudos to Joe, Paul, Jim and their whole team.

You’re posting on a primarily baseball focused website. Which part of the hobby do you think the posters are referring to?

This forum is generally pre war, which is a very small part of the entire hobby/business. I'm sure all dealers had their best show ever because the show was the most crowded with the most number of buyers ever, so of course this show was their best ever. Same with AH number of consignments, etc,...

Definitely felt like there was more vintage on display this year than last, and by a significant amount. Had a great time, picked up some incredible stuff, saw some friendly board members, then spent the following day at a day game at Wrigley. I had a blast!

My travelogue is on my substack but this sums it up:

Stuff: The stuff at the show is pretty, pretty good. Oh Hell, it is phenomenal. Overwhelming. Amazing. A sensory overload. I saw cards this week that I haven’t ever seen in person before, even after 50 years as a collector. I like Babe Ruth cards, and I haven’t seen so many high value Ruth cards ever before in one place. Didn’t buy any, but damn, what eye candy. There was a ton of high-end vintage nonsports. I’ve been chasing a particular N card for a while; by the close of the sneak peek Wednesday I saw two and owned one. I bought a bunch of other stuff too. The prices were breathtaking (not on what I bought). No matter how much money I bring, it still feels like too little at the National. I spent half my bankroll the first night. I got pulled at the airport for additional screening. The bricks of cards in my bag looked odd. The young male TSA agent who opened my bags saw the cards and just smiled. “Baseball cards?” I nodded. “These are really neatly packed,” he said before sending me on my way.

Experience: As much as I value the inventory of rare and mundane items I picked (I had so many cards I had to ship my clothes home), spending five days with friends is priceless. I may interact with someone online nearly every day, on the phone, and even In a Zoom hang, but there is no substitute for breaking bread with a man, for sitting across from him in a bar talking face to face for hours, if you want to get the truest measure of who he really is. I was kind of shocked that I hadn’t seen so many friends in 6 years. Travel is hard and expensive—I totally get that—but it is too easy to get complacent in the heavily connected virtual world we live in and not go somewhere. Don’t do that. Time flies. When I last saw most of the guys who make up my ‘family’, I had living parents, a child at home, and I didn’t have to rely on a walking stick (alright, a cane) sometimes. How things change. And yet, things also do not change. Even after several years, we pick up right where we left off when we last got together. The inside jokes, the personalities, they are still there. Half an hour into dinner or sitting at the bar and it is like we last met last week. One thing I did notice is that we are older and more appreciative of our times together. Some of us have died; others are too sick to come. They are a sobering reminder that we don’t have forever to enjoy these events and each other. I heard more than one friend who has become a septuagenarian since I last saw him face to face wondering how many more of these shows he has in him. That is the real secret sauce of the National: the enduring friendships.

I’ve heard there were some notable thefts at the show (we experienced the same here in Pasadena at the recent Front Row event); anybody have any details?

Jeremy Lin and Kevin McHale "Logoman" cards missing from BGS booth:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1615606

That's the only mention on the places that I read online.

I haven't heard anything about the Mister Mancave situation at the National. Were any memorabilia autograph dealers inspected by the police/FBI to see if they were reselling counterfeits?

I went for about 30 hours. It was my 4th National and easily the most packed. I bought nothing but many friends had awesome pickups.

Chicago for the next 2 years will give the group the time to continue to expand and evolve the upstairs area.

I sure would rather be getting in line over there again this morning than going back to work. The adventure every day is so much fun. Great to hear and see so many similar stories.

I don’t know. When I see a line of young men around the block I have no idea if they are vintage collectors.

"Your worst day at a card show is better than your best day at work"-Vintageball

If the National was just a place for vintage collectors it would be pretty boring. If you want a large offering of mass produced 1950-1970 baseball cards go to Chantilly, Philly, or Strongsville.

It was awesome to see so many kids wheeling and dealing across sports and non-sports (I.e., Pokemon

Amen!

I don't disagree. New blood is good.

I saw a good number of youngsters shopping vintage cases. Apparently they have a helluva lot more $$$ than I had at that age.

I know Loews and Embassy Suites shut down trading and gathering this year, but the Hyatt did not

2 years ago at Loews you could see 12-15 year olds stashing $100 bills into backpacks as deals were happening as they were sitting on the floor.

The new kids have $, they have technology, and they know their stuff. Many of them will make more $ than their parents if they keep going.

10 more Observations
 

I live in the Chicago area, so I'll go every year I can and have for the last 10 years or so, there's no real downside or cost to see an enormous concentration of great stuff. That said there were a couple of thoughts on this year's show:

1) Someone mentioned it's becoming more of an Exhibition, and I think that's accurate. Seems like every year more and more space is dedicated to large expo type booths. Not sure that harms the Experience per se, but I don't spend much time on/in those and to me it feels like it congests the show. Maybe it's a good thing if that's what younger collectors want.

2) Pokémon and card breaking are really big things...of which I know nothing about.

3) This year the layout was different. Not in a good or bad way, just not familiar to me. I found it difficult to navigate to where the vintage was or was not. I heard Ludex had an interactive map, but I didn't know that initially. I was later told the 0-4000 table/area schematic was meant as a bit of a historical directory with lower numbers being the concentration for vintage. In hindsight that's probably accurate (Vintage seemed to dry up after about section 2000 with the exception of Tim Payne's booth) but again wasn't clear to me if that was really the intent or happenstance.

4) The air worked!

5) The show was at times overwhelming, and there are limited areas to "sit" and recover.

6) Pricing was obscene. Probably more so than other years in my opinion. On the other hand, it's their right to ask for it, and there seemed to be people buying at almost any price.

7) There are way too many "carts" being taken to these shows to carry a hoard people plan to shop. Felt like walking through the aisles was like playing a bit of frogger with those things. And for lord sake, have some awareness when you park them at a dealers table and block half the area.

8) There was good stuff there, but I found some of the coolest stuff (to me) by sitting down and going through stacks. I suppose there is only so much space to display, and if you just do a walk by, you're likely to miss some good stuff...

9) The Hobby is in a good place. The line of people and interest is really neat to see.

10) I can't wait to do it again next year.

I went on Friday and Saturday. They started letting the crowds in a few minutes early instead of making them stay out lined up for blocks on the sidewalk in the smokey air and hot sun, so that was nice. Once I got inside, I only stopped moving for about 15 minutes each day; not complaining, but as I get older, my dogs seem to scream louder by the end of the day!

On Day 1, I consigned some items to 3 different auction companies and that was fun and relatively easy. But I wasted some time watching some big name athletes open packs (though a few also told interesting stories) and before I knew it the day was almost over. So I scrambled to check out the tables in the main area and made it down 2 whole rows before the show closed. I took notes about who had the Topps 1955 Banks and Mathews I needed, and actually found a couple of dealers that had these. But at that point I hadn't spotted any dealers that could help complete my 1962 Salada Baseball set.

On Day 2, I picked up with Row 3 and finally had a little luck with my quest for Salada coins. Was able to pick up a couple of regular-issue high number coins. Now when I come to the National, I have no problem paying higher than the comp price, as I appreciate that the dealers have paid a lot to set up at the National. I looked at the comp prices and asked the dealer if he'd accept what I calculated to be a bit more than the comp price. To my pleasant surprise, he said he'd accept even less than I'd offered and less than the comp price. I asked him if he was sure! Then I thanked him profusely and we had a nice chat. It was only a difference of a couple of dollars, but if you are the gentleman that sold me those 2 Salada coins, please know that you made my day! I wish I would have written down your name!

After that, I realized that I needed to pick up the pace or run the risk that for the first time, I might not make it through all the tables. I finished the main room and then hit the second room that also had a lot of vintage dealers. I made careful notes about who had Banks and Mathews cards in or near the condition I was looking for. Then I made my way upstairs. Now that room upstairs was a bit of a nightmare when I was up there. For whatever reason, there was only enough space in the aisles to accommodate folks in one single file lane going in each direction. So it was really difficult to navigate those aisles with some folks stopping to look at the dealer tables. The crazy thing is that there was a lot of space in that big room that was not being used. So they could have made the aisles wider. That was my only gripe, however, and not a biggie for me at that, as it was mostly newer dealers upstairs and them mostly just brought their new shiny stuff that I was able to just pass by without stopping.

With 1 hour to spare, I had finished scoping out all the tables, and was ready to buy my Banks card. I was looking for a G-VG but found an off-centered card that was probably an EX. I asked the price. I was good with it, and that was that! Then off to get a Mathews with 30 minutes left before show close. Went back to look at the one I wanted, but mis-remembered it and it was actually in much better shape. The guy wanted to sell it to me and deeply discounted it, but regrettably, I didn't end up taking it. Part of it was that the deal seemed too good; either he was really letting it go for too low of a price, or maybe the card had been trimmed. So I walked away. And that's how my show ended.

All in all, I had a great time catching up with a few dealers I'd known for awhile, meeting new collectors, and checking out what some of the auction houses were displaying. The venue stayed cool, bathrooms were generally clean and uncrowded, and I had ZERO problems with the internet.

Can't wait to come back next year!

Compared to previous Chicago shows, two logistics improved, as both AC performance (often on the chilly side) and show WiFi proved reliable. Here's to that continuing in coming years!

While the upstairs shopping area contained some good dealers, even for vintage, its tight aisles created an artificially poor shopping experience. I saw at least at least one shouting match kicked off because people simply couldn't get by each other. Either the floor planners thought they could get away with narrow aisles there or the facility failed to let them use adequate space. Aisles and navigation almost everywhere else onsite felt better compared to prior years, aside from predictable crowds near the food vendors and outward-facing corporate booths.

I found several places to spend money as a low-grade vintage collector, even if the broader range of visible sticker prices seemed sky-high. One place I returned to 4-5 times sat opposite a corporate booth whose recorded sales pitch might be echoing in my dreams for weeks to come. It made me wonder whether dealers seek out or avoid those booths on the fringes of corporate areas, since their year-to-year experience will be unpredictable.

Unexpected pickup: W-UNC Big Head (1920 Universal Toy & Novelty Co.) of Leon Cadore ($130) that shows a different player, since Cadore was a Brooklyn pitcher throughout its possible release timeframe. Given the date, facial features, and Cincy uniform shown, it's Reds OF Pat Duncan, an up-and-coming player who hit well during mid-1920, the likely release window for this strip set.

Fun almost-pickup: Andrew Aronstein (son of TCMA founder Mike) located a SCFC postcard of Dave Bancroft that he planned to give to me, knowing my TCMA interests, until he turned it over and discovered that, in fact, his father Mike had mailed that very card to a customer in 1969, letting them know the set could be ordered for $1.75. That card's going home with Andrew instead. :-)

Regarding logistics, there was one looming disaster on Thursday that seemed to have been identified by the promoters and rectified. The Pete Crow Armstrong appearance at Tristar.

Originally scheduled signing at 11am with the photo op, as always, a nebulous "prior to". Hundreds of people who normally would not have been present at GA doors were moved to 3pm.

First extended time at a national— (was there on Sunday in 2019). Only collect raw very low condition vintage. Fun to look at the graded prewar but not buying any. Took some hunting but got a lot of cards. Even some prewar including a slightly damaged Simmons r303 for $20. Also picked up two kc athletics pennants and a great letter from pirates gm to bob Burda why he was not guaranteed a ml spot or 8k salary one sentence reads (do not mean to be unkind Bob, but the cardinals did not think much of you since they traded you to us for a 33 year old catcher batting 180…)

I got a newspaper page signed by all members of aa expos team on their photos for $5 including several future major leaguers! (Not authenticated lol)

I only bought a very few cards from the showcases - even many of the bargain bin cards were priced 2x or even 3x what I would pay. But there were a few dealers with great vintage at reasonable prices.

Got to talk with mark mccrae!

Met a lot of members of old baseball cards which was my main purpose of going anyway!

Got there Weds and left Saturday night. Fully agree with all of the sentiment. A great time. Whether it's "worth it" or not is really a personal evaluation.

The bolded above is my only true complaint. If you cannot hold it or carry it (i.e., a backpack), you should not be allowed to bring it in. The number of people with card suitcases was nuts. It's like adding an additional 20% capacity simply because of the amount of floor space they take up.

"7) There are way too many "carts" being taken to these shows to carry a hoard people plan to shop."

Fully agree on this. So frustrating to try and work around these things. Some pretty big ones, and people just didn't care if they were in the way.

I enjoyed the national this year, my second year back after a long hiatus. I was thrilled to see so much vintage.

Was great to see so many old friends and dealers I grew up with. Many fond memories to be had. Reconnected with people I hadn't seen in far too long. Was even fortunate enough to have a nice breakfast with Leon.

I do think we need to tone down some of the yelling at a few of these booths. I know next to where I was (at Heritage), there was some guy screaming the first day at the Arena booth. Was better the next day, as I imagine others complained.

I like Chicago, and I think Detroit will be fun. I do miss Anaheim shows!

Great to see so many of you, and I'm sorry I missed the rest of you.

I know exactly where you mean; we even ran into each other over there. That dealer had great stuff, but the sound next door, I am pretty sure it is what they used at GITMO to break terrorists. Just torturous.

I picked up a lot of inventory and a few personal collection items but I don't have a favorite PC item yet. The front runner is this 1948 Indy 500 pit badge on backer. That is the year Mauri Rose won his 2nd in a row (3rd overall):

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...t%20Badge.jpeg

Pairs nicely with my ticket:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ket%20Rose.jpg

I also have the official race results magazine with him on the cover and a practice session ticket.

These are from A.J. Foyt's Indy debut (1958) and first win (1961); I also got a debut ticket:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Ej0AA...~/s-l1600.webp
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/3yMAA...v/s-l1600.webp

Too bad he's stopped signing TTM; I was lucky to get one signed piece shortly before he quit.

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...Foyt%20TTM.jpg

I saw one older gentleman using a large two-shelf cart like the ones my teachers used for the overhead projector in school.

at times it felt like I was at the airport...people were carting actual luggage around with presumably cards inside.

pete lol

+1. Lots of suitcase type cases rolling around.
I had a great show but some of it was a little annoying. Like the kids shouting all over the place. But I guess it's expected.
.

It appears this one may be solved, as BGS likely sent them to Texas by accident.

These are the food trucks of the hobby, selling without having to pay for space. But, as with the trucks, enough people must be OK with it that it's not become much of an issue, if at all.

Hank, apparently you have not witnessed a trade night, where anyone and everyone suddenly appears and goes into business. They bring their cards, tables, food and drink and set up. Locally many don't even bother to go to the show they just set up at trade night. Good for the overall hobby I suppose but impacts the dealers on the floor, both buying and selling.

Maybe they could have the show as usual during the day and the trade nights on the 2nd floor in the evenings. Strict rule of no loitering anywhere in the convention center until a certain time (ie 6 pm, 7 pm, etc,...)

I can see it now, a hotel that turns an entire floor or floors into a "trade night" or nights, with suitcase dealers hawking their wares from their rooms and buyers and sellers never needing to actually attend the convention!

Bingo!

The Dallas Card Show (DCS) is a perfect example of this. There are a decent amount of vendors in the room Scott is in who sell from their tables on Trade Night, but many people just show up for that and not for the show.

And here are the trade-offs

1) You pay for parking for the DCS but not for Trade Night (I think Kyle or the Hotel is throwing away $$$ by not charging for that)

2) You get to see a limited amount of tables from the DCS but most of the rest of the show is not available to the trade night people.

3) I saw this with what I've heard in the people who come to Trade Night are not as "well-mannered" as the ones who come to the show. (I think that might be part of the trade-off of not paying to get in the door so to speak)

These are all things Dr. Beckett and I discussed on one of his podcasts, so this is not something new for me to say.

https://beckettinsights.podbean.com/...th-rich-klein/

Regards
Rich

What's the DCS?

I had heard some hotels did the opposite. The removed people from gathering.