OMG Blowout list of suspected trimmed modern cards
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Shame on PSA and BGS for allowing fraudsters the means to commit such massive levels of fraud, while clearly giving them preferential grades on top of it. Not only are they grading altered cards, they are OVER-grading altered cards and giving preferential treatment to the people submitting them. Unreal. The grading game is dead to me, because absolutely no graded card from either of these shit companies can be trusted to be unaltered and graded properly and fairly.
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There seems to be no boundaries to the scope of this scandal, and what is perfectly clear is TPG's simply do not have the ability to detect the alterations. The card doctors are light years ahead.
I've been in this hobby for thirty five years, and I've seen various levels of fraud pretty much the whole way through. But this dwarfs anything I have seen to date. I am very curious how this is all going to be addressed. |
Holy shit. If there are before and after pics for these cards, PSA and Beckett are in deep shit.
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They just need to go away forever. A new system (or no system) is needed.
STOP SUPPORTING THEM, PEOPLE! And do not look to them to fix the problem. It would be like asking Lance Armstrong to fix the doping issue for the Olympics. Just be done. |
There are for a bunch. Then just like with Moser, they can put the submission back together and all cards submitted are considered tainted until proven otherwise. There is a thread on Robert Block in the member feedback section if you want to see a lot of the before and after pictures.
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I’m sure that some of our members would not consider this evidence.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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The modern stuff is going to dwarf the vintage losses. |
I can only assume 312 is working up a list for one or more other guys identified as modern trimmers.
If modern dwarfs vintage it will be because the other vintage guys haven't left the same tracks and the history goes too far back. |
Agreed. It’s certainly not for lack of trying lol.
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What I don't know is how these guys operate in terms of their submissions. Do they just submit stacks of altered cards, or do they try to throw the graders off the trail of the altered ones by mixing in clean ones, for example. Either way, it could end up a nightmare for people owning cards with certs in these subs but without the before and after pics. I imagine some will turn out to be obviously altered, but others may not be so obvious and some may even be legit.
Maybe some of the people here who profess such expertise in detecting alterations should offer their services. |
There appear to be more altered cards than non altered cards out there. I think that we have to assume that every card is altered out there.
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All I know is I will no longer be able to bring myself to make a large purchase of any PSA or BGS graded card/cards moving forward. Small stuff, whatever. I'll buy the card. But if you are talking anything over $50, no way in hell I'm risking spending my money on altered or over-graded cards.
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I was kind of thinking the same thing, even though we know some aren't. |
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Thankfully, not one PSA 10 Greg Jefferies rookie on that list. Phew.
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Who in their right mind would continue to send cards in to be graded by either company. We have only seen the tip of the iceberg. What a mess is coming.
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If anything this shows how small the difference in the actual quality of the card between a 9, 9.5, 10, or black label is and how absurd the price difference is. A card in any one of those 4 holders would not look out of place in any other, most of the time. I would be surprised if people hadn't figured out a way to exploit this. Way too much money at stake for a grader making whatever they make not to try to cash in. |
Interesting that the only grading company which appears to have some evidence of crooked graders is Beckett.
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Now some may be obvious when examined with a new and critical eye by the owner, but many may not be if this card doctor is as good as people say. |
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NYT come to the rescue...
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Why is anyone surprised by this? If a card is available in a 9 and the bump from a 9 to a 10 is many multiples I would be shocked if this didn’t happen. The idiots paying the multiples for a barely discernible change are fueling this. They are getting what they should expect. It doesn’t make it right, but it is none-the-less inevitable.
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It was only a matter of time until #2 was outed in the Brent Mastro scandal. First Gary "Scissorhands" Moser and now you can Add
Robert "FAT KID ON THE" Block to the list of trimmers conspiring with PWCC. There are at least 8 more "conservators" working with Brenty Mastro IMHO so please be patient, they're working on it... |
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One thing I have yet to see mentioned is how Joe Clemons has strange cards intertwined into his BGS submissions. He got a BGS Black Label on a 2018 Topps Chrome Mookie Betts common with rough edges. Some see the grade as part of the scandal, I see it as a marker for the grader to know which submissions are Joe's. 'Mine's the submission with the Mookie Betts common.' That's how they know which one's are his so they can give him bullshit grades.
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How do we “know” if the proof has yet to come out? |
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I have about 300 cards graded by PSA and BGS, but it's pretty obvious with this massive TPG scandal that the only way cards should be graded is with technology. There needs to be a system in place that if you ran a card through said system, the same said card would grade the same 100 times out of 100. Humans simply can not be trusted to be subjective and honest. Human-based TPGs should go the way of the Dodo bird. They're, inconsistent, unreliable, untrustworthy and not subjective.
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Triple Dog GEM MINT with all Caps? Double Secret GEM Mint? |
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To use technology, you need a few things. The first is the knowledge to tell the technology what to look for. None of the TPGs have that. Next, you need the ability to look at edge quality to be able to see the difference between a factory edge and a non- factory edge. If nobody knows the difference, they can't tell the technology what's good and what's not. Technology is probably currently easier to fool than a relatively knowledgeable person. |
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How can either company remain trusted ?? If PSA fails to take responsibility admits their wrong, and pays back full value for their bad cards I will never trust them again.
I’m sure they will do nothing, very sad and par for the course in this industry. Hope PSA proves me wrong....not holding breath. |
Wow. That’s a lot of submissions.
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The longer the lists the better. Some self-deluding dolts, such as on the CU board, won't open their eyes unless they're hit over the head with a sledgehammer.
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Is there a list of the worst card doctors or people in the hobby other then hauls of shame?
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I once had a tour of the Beckett facility in Dallas. Sitting on the floor in a hallway was an open box of unused holders. I said "I could steal those and grade my own," and the Director of Grading joked "Don't bother. They are BCCG holders."
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So basically we all need to look at our own cards and learn to judge condition and authenticity?!?!?! F***!
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Mantle-Griffey J auto ?
Curious Beckett authentic--Is it possible this Griffey auto may have been added recently to this card and is it authentic, now listed as a auction on Ebay-- its appears signed with a bold sharpie quite different than all other examples I have seen on these dual signed card?
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I visited the site today to see how the fraud is being handled and it looks like the new mod is actually editing user's posts by changing or removing things said. That's a first for me on any forum. The reason the members there will "not open their eyes unless they're hit over the head with a sledgehammer" is because they don't want to lose posting privileges. For most of the regular posters there, that forum is their life and they cannot function without it. |
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Why stop at 10 when you can have...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f45af79a2b.jpg Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Crazy how many Gem Mint cards were being graded in those grading sessions, that has to be some kind of record! Yet no red flags!?! That one submission had 23 Jordan RC's in a row with 4 getting Gem Mt, then another has 19 Montana Rc's at one time with 14 getting 9's and the other 4 getting 8.5's! Why would they destroy the registry/pop reports with preferential grades like this for certain submitters? This all just blows my mind, they literally flooded the market with high grade high demand rookies!
This all makes me want to throw up to think of all the people out there that have been screwed by these con artists. These guys really need to do some really long prison sentences! Millions of $$ of fraud going on here. |
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Rich |
And I may be off the timeline by a few days but the lack of a forum was part of the "NEW" Beckett web site which was teased all during the 2008 National and other ways.
As noted, part of the "NEW" web site was the lack of a forum which was not brought over because it would not be a money making part of the web site. The outcry was so loud that within a week there was a new forum added and it took another week or so for the forum to be easily accessible instead of having to have several steps to find said forum. Needless to say, I bet you could find the details of that debacle in the archives of Net 54 as I was actively posting on both boards in those days. Within a month, the then owners were forced by their bank (read lending institution) to see to Eli Research now known as Entrust and they have remained the owners since then. But the forum debacle might have been the final clue about the true dire straits of the previous owners (who had purchased the company from Dr. Beckett) Just some more non-needed details about how the Beckett forum going away had nothing to do with negative comments. Rich |
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Not that talking to happy people is bad, I just learn less from them. |
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Might this card be in the same category as other doctored cards not disclosing this fact ?-- (the card wasn't pulled from the pack as originally intended by the manufacturer) |
Dryden RC apparently recolored from a 9 to a 10. It looks like the 52B Musial guy bought it.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3068 |
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I just like that it's the only card with my 2 personal favorite players from different eras on the same card. While I would prefer one that was pack issued with both signatures I could certainly see myself buying one with Griffey added later. Especially if this fact was disclosed and it saved me a few hundred bucks. |
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