This is what happens when EMR team reports get ignored
 

And this is what happens when they don't get ignored.

This lot,

https://catalog.scpauctions.com/LotD...px?lotid=24652

in the current SCD auction, used to belong to me (I am NOT the consignor.) About a year ago, I listed it on eBay. It had a full PSA CoA, which could be verified online. Yet it was removed. An eBay watcher contacted me, though, and we struck a deal--with full right of return if his authenticator of choice--JSA or PSA--rejected it. Needless to say, it was not returned.

I had also listed it in the B/S/T here, so I marked it "sold." I was immediately attacked by two Net54 members for perpetrating a fraud--selling a ball that had been removed by eBay! How dare I?!

I wondered at the time how they knew so quickly the listing had been pulled. I knew nothing, at that time of eBay's "EMR team." What a surprise to learn later that those two are members. What a coincidence!

WOW....not good.

I remember that whole thread!

They may have done me a favor, though.

No eBay fees. ;)

Greg - I remember the thread too.
And FYI - Only a very well known hobby person has the authority to pull PSA authenticated items from ebay. It is not someone who is on Net54 but it is someone that is highly respected by all in the hobby.

And who on the board reports to this "very well known hobby person"?

Still waiting, Richard.

Didn't know that Richard, thanks for the info. I have a guess who it is :D

Ah yes, I remember that thread! That was ridiculously uncalled for.

Not sure what you are referring to Rookie (ridiculously uncalled for) but the ball was pulled by ebay and nobody on Net54 had anything to do with it. As I said the person who had it pulled is not a Net54 member. There are a number of Net54 members who are part of the EMR team but those people do not have the influence to pull a PSA or JSA item. Having a contractual agreement with ebay has its advantages.

BS, Richard. You can't have it both ways. You're continually taking credit for being a member of the "EMR team," which reports to eBay "suspicious items," in order to have them removed. You're constantly pissing and moaning about "nobody at eBay listening to you anymore." In fact, that's why you started this thread.

Never thought it would turn out this way, did you?

Don't know what he says but I obviously have a stalker on here now :D:D.

"Don't know what he says." LOL!

It sure does!

Not one person on this site can take down a PSA or JSA cert. In fact it is almost impossible to take down Global. There is only one person that Ebay feels is better qualified than those other Tpa's. That is the only person that has that power.

Shelly,

The person I'm thinking of isn't a board member.

Greg

That is correct.:)

Global gets taken down all the time, regardless of the authenticity of the item.

Nice obfuscation, guys. But it won't work. No one is accusing anyone here of "taking the item down."

The person(s) here reported the item--as member(s) of the EMR team--in order to have the item removed.

What did Richard title this thread?

"This is what happens when EMR team reports are ignored."

(Emphasis added.)

Ignored by whom?

That "very well known hobby person."

Should have left out Global.

thats a bunch of baloney on ebays part, its all political, no one is more qualified than mark ogren to report and help take down a boxing autograph certed by psa or jsa that is bad, not your so called super expert. (mark even shows undeniable proof) so how is super expert more qualified at boxing? like i said, it's all POLITICAL.

There are people who are EMR's with no expertise at all. It's just who you know at ebay. that's it.

Sorry Travis, I should have stated that the person I am referring to is only involved with baseball. I should have been more specific but he probably does not know anything about boxing and he would never attempt to take down a boxing autograph.
And knowing someone at ebay has nothing to do with this. There is no benefit to EMR members for removing autographs.

i understand that , but its still political, thats why boxing psa and jsa items dont get taken down. if you know someone at ebay, you get to be an emr and can take down stuff, if you don,t, then you are chopped liver. that is why the guy i know who isnt an expert at anything is an emr. how did he get to be an emr? well, he knows someone at ebay.

that's all i wanted to say. it doesnt have a lot to do with someones expertise, a lot of really good experts are not only NOT emr's, then routinely have some of their stuff removed off of ebay, by other people who are and just want to screw with them and use their ebay influence against other people they don't like. POLITICAL.

the benefit is that they have the power to remove autographs they dont like, from people they dont like if they choose to misuse the power, which some do and some don't.

Travis - if the guy you know isn't an expert at anything then how did he get to be an EMR? When John G. was in charge of his division he approved EMR members. He would never have approved someone who knew nothing.
And if this person is an EMR why would he even bother to become an EMR if he is not an expert?
Just askin'.

And he has the power to have autographs he does like removed--if they're from people he doesn't like. (All the while publicly patting himself on the back, never letting us forget what a tireless protector of the hobby he is.)

The piece in question is now gone.

Travis - tell me who in the EMR team is misusing their power. That person can be removed from the team very quickly.

That's a joke, right? (I wonder who it could be. Hmmm... )

They're listening to you again! Whew! That's a real load off my mind!

I'm just a simple small town attorney so maybe I missed the veiled references; who is this magical authority whose word is law at ebay

only they know who is them

Yoda?

If Yoda lives in Michigan....then yes! :)

Well, if that's the case then...I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. Don't forget, the Walrus was Paul!

What a funny group we have here.
This person wants to remain anonymous. If any of you comedians here :D were the one that I was talking about and you requested anonymity how would you feel if I told the board who you were?
And you guys better be good or your ebay attempted sales will all vanish. :D:D:D:D;);):D:D:D:D.

............

A popular government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy; or, perhaps both.

- James Madison

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.

- Patrick Henry

Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants

- Justice Louis Brandeis

Everybody knows that corruption thrives in secret places, and avoids public places, and we believe it a fair presumption that secrecy means impropriety.

- Woodrow Wilson

Secrecy, being an instrument of conspiracy, ought never to be the system of a regular government.

- Jeremy Bentham

Secrecy is for losers.

- Senator Patrick Moynihan

They're on double-secret probation!

- Dean Vernon Wormer

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...deanwormer.jpg

"Many a truth is spoken in jest."

Mike -

+1 for an awesome Beatles reference in context!

Adam,
I guess your word does not mean as much to you as my word means to me.
The gentleman requested anonymity, I will honor that request.
If he asked you for anonymity I guess you would have told him yes and then revealed his name to the group.
I guess that is good for the group, to know that they should not tell you something that they want to be kept quiet.

Richard,
I don't think that was his point.
Those who insist on operating in secrecy invite skepticism about their motives, that's all.
That's the way I took the quotes.

If a friend told you something and asked you not to repeat that information, what would you have done?
Why skeptical about it? I have clearly stated why I did not reveal the name of the person.
And his quotes were mostly about a government operating in secrecy, not an individual who wanted to honor a request from a friend.

Not skeptical about your reasons, I clearly understand that - you gave your word. Reread my post.
It's not that important, I've already decided I'm not cut out for the cloak and dagger world of autograph collecting.

Best, Jeff

Your friend wants to remain anonymous so that he/she is not held accountable for their actions.

Simple as that.

If you gave your word, you ought not tell anyone, as that would be a violation of their trust.

The "anonymous EMR'r" on the other hand, should make themselves known so that they can be correctly applauded for their good works and answer for their bad choices.

First, I think if Ebay or that person wanted his or her name out in the public I think it would have already been out there.
As to answer for their bad choices. I have a question. Can you tell me from your own experience was anything been taken down that had any effect on you? If so could you post the link.

Right, because the EMRs are the real problem with eBay. And the upaid volunteers should be exposed to harassment by criminal fake sellers and message board know-it-alls with axes to grind. :rolleyes:

Why don't you tell us what steps you have taken to help clean up the hobby so we can applaud or criticize you as we see fit?

+++++

You know my name because its posted above each of my messages.

Applaud or criticize as you see fit.

Not sure how it's relevant to this particular discussion though.

How many expert volunteers do you think eBay would get if they knew their names would be publicized?

You can pick a debatable case here or there... but the fact of the matter is that the items EMRs report the most are mass-produced forgeries being sold by sellers who are sometimes part of organized forgery rings. Rings from the west coast, a ring from Chicago, a ring from Japan and on and on. In other words -- professional criminals.

You want your name available to these people so they can call you at night? Maybe they'll mention where you live and talk about your kids photos on your wife's Facebook page.

Or maybe you'll end up on a list on some scummy anonymous smear site. Or maybe you'll be named in a groundless lawsuit that will still cost you lots of money to make go away.

You got it now?

Meh. You win dude. I don't really have a dog in this fight and didn't really intend to get dragged this far into it.

I will say that I agree with the general sentiment of other folks on this site that holds that more transparency is better. I think one of the main issues with the autograph side is the perceived need for so much secrecy.

Just my opinion.

Some have valid reasons for hiding their secrets, but some simply don't know anything. I think that if we ever had a thread about validating Ruth autographs, where EVERYONE here participated, we'd come up with basically nothing. I know one respected person here who could only provide confusing garbage, even if he really tried, and another non-respected one who would provide similar, or worse. And there's everything in-between.

So why even bother?

i agree, more transparency the better, secrecy=something to hide, but he is part of team east coast, so that's all you need to know about transparency. i will call out all the boxing fakes i see, and you can publicize my name. a fake is a fake. but sometimes the fake out comes from the authenticators or experts that have no name, because no name = no accountability. That's why abc authentication company and xyz authentication company won't tell you just exactly who looked at and authenticated your autograph.

Nobody cares who the em's are. they care about emr's getting their title and responsibility through expertise, not who they know. Some of the most experienced and expert autograph people wouldn't be allowed to be an emr, while some real dodos have been let in.

collectors also want the online auction site and doing the right thing and pulling ALL fake autographs, which they wont do.

there is a nascar guy who is an emr and can get other nascar signed items pulled by his word, and he also sells a LOT of nascar signed photos himself on the same auction site with the tagline "beware of other sellers who sell nothing but fakes"

this is outrageous he is allowed to do that and be an emr. he also promises for a fact that if you buy from him, all of the items you buy will pass a certain authentication company. of course he is also the authenticator for that company.

it's all a big game people. from a to z and will be until the day these people are exposed, and their records searched and they are outed for gaming the system. anonymity=license to do what you want unfettered by any checks and balances. These companie are issuing coa's with no exemplars, we have seen it, the online auction houses protect any coa's from these companies, scratch back here and reciprocate!


SGC card grading company has been doing autographs a couple of months now and everytime i email them asking them who their authenticators are and if they will put up a webpage saying who their authenticators are, i get no response. it's been two months, they can't put up an authenticators bio page????? people are sending in autographs to them, they have no idea who is authenticating them. it's unbelievable and bizzaro world but most collectors don't care from what i have gathered. unbox, sort, tag, enter into database, authenticate, slab, double check accuracy and throw into box for 8 dollars per autograph, that's all the collector wants, the slab and the cert number.

So you are saying the guys are pulling down good stuff so they can sell there own. So I guess what you are saying is that people on this site that are helping Ebay are crooks?:confused:

I remember when Spence opened up an ebay account and started selling stuff on there. This was a strict violation of ebay's policy which stated the ebay recommended authenticators would not sell on ebay as that was a conflict. After this was reported and shown to be against their own policy, his account was terminated.

I think that was Joe Orlando and he had to sell his whole collection. That was for gradeing cards.

What does that have to do with the question.:confused:

No, it was Spence right after he left PSA and started on his own. He didn't last long on ebay.

Ok. What does that I have to do with guys that try and get rid of bad stuff on Ebay. They dont get paid. Should they be told you cant sell if you help us. Then nothing will ever come down.:confused:

I'm pretty sure he's still on there...I inquired about a 1959 set for a friend of mine and the response came from someone named Don Spence. This was just yesterday.

nothing is coming down the way it is. i cant get a psa or jsa fake boxing item down, even if i run it through an emr, which i have, so whats the difference?

selling is one thing, but being an authenticator who promises the items he sells with pass the company he works foris wrong. and also, putting in a disclaimer paraphrasing "beware other sellers who sell nothing but fakes" it's just totally wrong. he is using his titles to his advantage and also an emr for ebay. conflicts of interest?

Don Spence is a fellow Texan with an absolutely phenomenal collection. Jimmy ain't Don.

Mike

Doh! I knew that.

Well written, Mr. Zipper.

It's easy for these Message Board Know-It-Alls to criticize us because they know that good guys like us, who are pro-active, won't resort to smear campaigns, etc., to go after those that criticize us. It's part of the territory that we deal in.


And those same Message Board Know-It-Alls start whing and crying when information that we've worked to acquire and possess to fight the bad guys, isn't shared by us with them. Well that's too bad. I have reasons for not sharing certain information. Some information I share with my friends in the hobby. Other information, I don't share with anyone.

Richard, Shelly, Steve Zarelli and myself have all been smeared at one time or another and more. But we continue on. And then we have to hear from Atkatz about our "patting ourselves on the back." This coming from someone who is ZERO pro-active. Wow.

So, Atkatz, if it makes you feel good to make fun of me, or call me names, then please feel free to do so. Because the truth is, that's all you have.

And as for some of the rest you, if it makes you feel good to make fun of me, then please continue to do so, because I will post what I want, not what you want. Do you you want what I know? Then go out and get it the same way I did.

And what right do any of you have to demand that EMRs reveal who they are? They do a job that is thankless without compensation.

Thanks, Chris! Don't mind if I do!

You make it so easy--such a self-righteous little man. Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough in the "Babe Ruth?" thread?
(Embarrassed enough to stay away for eleven days. Did you think we'd all forget in only eleven days what a fool you made of yourself?)

And, of course, you had absolutely nothing to do with my genuine Ruth/Gehrig ball being removed by Richard's all-powerful nameless-one.

I just don't buy that secrecy is the way to clean up the hobby. Sorry. The "Michigan forger" has been allowed to forge for decades while you guys sit back and keep his secret for him. Call me cynical, but it seems the only people who get to know your secrets are people who make money in this hobby.

Some of you knew for a long time that David's 1927 ball was a forgery and you kept it a secret.

Thanks...I guess.

Aside from reporting him to the FBI, which was done, what do you suggest should be done about the Michigan forger Dan??
We allowed him to forge for decades?? Really?? Is that what you think??
We allowed him?? Can anyone make a dumber statement on this board than that one??

Wow, this coming from a guy who admittedly knows ZERO about autographs.

This is the same guy who was defending the Huggins & Scott Babe Ruth signed ticket, but yet knows ZERO about autographs.

Geez, Dan, would you have defended that Huggins & Scott Babe Ruth signed ticket if Huggins & Scott wasn't a Net54 advertiser?

And by the way, Dan, I was the one who infomed Atkatz that his "1927 Yankees" baseball was not authentic after his avatar caught my eye. Before that, I had never seen David's "1927 Yankees" baseball. Then later on Atkatz would claim that he sent it to a friend of his, who told him his ball was not authentic. Atkatz will never admit that it was me who informed him first that it was not authentic. As a matter of fact, at the time David and I were still cordial towards each other, I sent him a message that read "nice ball." I didn't have the heart to tell him it was not authentic.

Richard wrote "Aside from reporting him to the FBI, which was done, what do you suggest should be done about the Michigan forger Dan??
We allowed him to forge for decades?? Really?? Is that what you think??
We allowed him?? Can anyone make a dumber statement on this board than that one??"

We do what we can and we (the pro-active collectors against forgers and sellers of forgeries) hope for the best.

I agree with Richard when he wrote "Can anyone make a dumber statement on this board than that one??"

What a guy!

You could tell us what the tell is, you could tell us exactly where this guy lives without giving us his name. You could tell all kinds of things without fear of legal action against you. But you won't because you make money giving your opinion on good or bad and the bad guys keep you in business.

No Chris, it was Richard. And not out of the kindness of his heart, or the desire to protect the integrity of the hobby, either. It was a pure act of spite.

On Halloween two years ago Richard posted another of his typical cryptic threads--this one concerning a forger he called "Johnny F." I criticized him for once again (and again, and again, and again) posting just enough to show us how much he himself knows, but not enough to be useful to anyone. He could, for the board's enlightenment, have posted examples of this forger's work, but, to quote the late, great, John Belushi, "Nooooooo."

Throwing a little tantrum at my audacity in criticizing the master, Richard told me that I should be very familiar with Johnny F's work, since I was so "close to it." On further questioning, he revealed his long-held secret--the ball was fake--and informed me that another on the board agreed. (Ain't that Richard all the way? Always backing up his statements by referring to unnamed board members.) At that point, Chris posted that the unnamed person was him.

Sometimes--when Chris or Richard post something priest-like--I say to myself 'Let it be. Don't bother posting a response--it ain't worth another argument.' In this case, however, I'm extremely glad I pissed Richard off--it led to the removal from my collection of a significant forgery.

That might never have happened had I stayed in Richard's good graces.

Chris - Dan, myself and others, defended the process for calling out a forgery, not the signed ticket itself. You know this, so stop deflecting. If you have something to say either say it, or go back into hiding. This has gotten old.

+1

agreed.


we were concerned about the PROCESS of calling it a fake and impugning an auction house, and two authentication firms without showing any proof.

it might be fake, it might be real, that wasn't the point. and of course everyone else knows ZERO about autographs, but the guy who knows 100 won't say what he knows about the ruth?

Dan,
You really are thoughtless, how did you become a Mod?
For a guy who knows nothing about autographs, what are you doing in this forum? You are the CNN of this forum.
The guy lives in Michigan, if I knew his address which I don't, what good would it do you? You gonna go out and get 'em?
And I make most of my money buying and selling, authentication is not a big part of my business at all. It is minimal. I don't advertise it, except for my website, which mostly advertises my buying and selling, I have not spent a huge sum of money like PSA. My advertising budget for authentication is $0.
What activity have you ever undertaken for the good of the hobby Dan?
Tell us, we are all waiting.
The accusation that I won't tell you about the guy because I make money from bad guy activities is ludicrous and something that I would have thought would be beneath you. I guess it is not.
I did not think someone on this board could make the posts that you do, you are special Dan.

I have no idea if the autograph is real or not...the provenance is not good enough for me to buy it, but I wouldn't spend that much on a leap of faith in anything. The process of calling it out when it was already certed by JSA and showing ZERO proof is what irks me. Using Net54 for an unknown agenda irks me, and Chris seems to be doing a lot of that.

edited to add: I also do not have an reins put on me when it comes to advertisers. Ask Heritage what they think of me....I was also critical of Huggins and Scott buying from their own auction and later selling on ebay.

Dan,
Did you criticize them on Net54 or did you just e mail them with your concerns?
Have you been critical of Heritage on Net54?
Just askin' I really don't know what your answers will be but I am curious.

Criticize Richard, and this is what you get.

No one on this board--no one--is more sharing of his collection--and his enthusiasm for collecting--than is Dan. No one here is more generous.

Were anyone here to compare Richard with Dan, who do you suppose would be found wanting?

I have been critical of both right here on the forum for all to see...I don't have time to search for the links to the threads right now because I'm headed to a hockey game, but I'll do so later tonight or tomorrow morning.

It was me, David.

It was me who asked Richard to take a closer look at the photos of your "1927 Yankees" baseball. It was then, that Richard agreed the sigs were not authentic.

I was the first one on this board that was suspicious of those autographs after something caught my eye about your avatar.