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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />Yahoo says that Saddam Hussein may be hung soon. Hopefully, that means that troops will be heading home soon.<br /><br />Peter
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Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p>His execution will do nothing more than satisfy Washington and exacerbate the situation in Iraq. We're there for the long, long run <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>The reports are that hanging Saddam will not change anything so the troops won't be coming home.<br /><br />Peter:<br /><br />This is you ONE off-topic post. I you are on a calendar year basis for OT posts you will be alloted another on Monday (1/1/07), if you are on a rolling 12 month average for OT posts...well...you have a long time to wait. <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />A little military humor below:<br /><br><br>________________<br /><br /><a href="http://www.audiocomedy.net/soundboards/jacket.shtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.audiocomedy.net/soundboards/jacket.shtml</a>
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Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>What a way to go, -wouldn't be my first choice. Yea, I hope we can pass command off the Iraqi's quickly and bring our brave troops back.
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Unfortunately my cousin is flying in a chopper over Baghdad every day. He and his wife just had a baby this past year and he was called back into the service after having been out for 4-5 years. He was one of the many afflicted with the mysterious Gulf War Syndrome after the 1991 war and lost over 80lbs after returning to the states. I hope he and all the troops will be coming home in 2007, but it sounds like Bush is pushing for more troops so it doesn't look like it's going to happen.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>No, it won't happen and the war will drag on for years. But for Saddam, the sooner they hang him the better. Of course, that might even create more violence as he still does have supporters.
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Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p><br />"But for Saddam, the sooner they hang him the better."<br /><br />Did you really mean to say that? <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I would rather see him rot in a cell next to Noriega. The last thing the US Military needs in Iraq is a Sunni Martyr. It will be even worse if he is executed on a US Military base. And what is the purpose of filming it??? Like that won't inflame any more violence.
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Posted By: <b>Dylan</b><p>You cant seriously think that Saddam being executed will have any influence on the current state of our troop numbers. The baath party is not in control of the government, and his execution is nothing but a sideshow to pretend that we've accomplished something. In reality his death will mean nothing, the insurgency isnt fighting for Saddam their fighting for their own interests.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Steve- do you want to see him "hang" around? What possible use does the world have for this madman?
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Dylan,<br /><br />Your right on point. The fear here is that the Prez will start thinking that we are winning the war in Iraq and we're on our way to establishing democracy...which will mean more U.S. troops.<br /><br />Peter
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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>The only way to win in Irag is to pull all our troups out now and let them have at it. It only took us 30 years to forget Vietnam. Those who don't learn by their mistakes are destined to repeat them. <br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.
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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Do you guys all subscribe to the New York Times or what?
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Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>Barry, I was referring to myself, with this osteoporosis, that rope jerk would be far too uncomfortable <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14> Actually, I'm surprised Sadumb's lingered this long. Why some hairtrigger private didn't drop a pineapple in that manhole two years ago eludes me.
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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>Saddam's death will only cause a worsening of the Civil War in Iraq. It will, however, fulfill President Bush's Second reason for ACTUALLY going to war.<br /><br />His First reason, was, obviously OIL, just like his Dad's reason in 1991. George the First said in 1991 it was about Democracy in Kuwait but after the war ended, what happened? Gas prices went down, American companies were given large contracts to clean up and rebuild Kuwait and HOW MANY Democratic elections have been held in Kuwait since 1991?<br /><br />W's Second reason (wanting Saddam dead) relates to the Gulf War. During that war, Saddam said some mean things about George the First and I think I remember Saddam also issuing death threats against the President. After the war, many criticised Bush for not finishing the job and taking Saddam out of power. This obviously hurt little George W's feewings.<br /><br />So, once it looked like he was going to be elected President in his own right, W and his henchmen (Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al) started planning a war with Iraq, the only problem, how to take action without looking like a bully? The answer dropped in their laps with the terrorist attacks. (That is why some conspiracy theorists say the US didn't act or might have even helped the attacks to happen).<br /><br />I can't remember if it is International Law, United States law or just common sense, but I think there is a rule about not being able to kill a leader of a foreign country. This prevented W from an out-and-out assassination of Saddam. So, the next best thing would be to take over his country and then have the Iraqi justice system kill Saddam.<br /><br />Once Hussein is dead, watch for some type of shift (maybe major) in foreign policy as far as Iraq goes because at that point, President Bush will have no more personal feelings about the situation because HIS goals will have been acheived; 1) to make his friends in the oil business even more money and 2) Saddam Hussein to be dead.<br /><br /><br />David<br /><br />PS, Dan I know what you are talking about. My cousin had two weeks left in a semester in college when he was called to duty to fight in the Gulf War. The bad part was, he didn't leave the country for a month and just sat around with his Unit for that time. He lost out on that semester and didn't get a refund of his tuition. He fought in the war (he wont talk about what he saw or did) and then came back home. On top of having to retake the courses he missed out on, he also had Gulf War Syndrome to boot.
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Posted By: <b>anthony</b><p>i recently read that the military or pentagon (one in the same) have started up the "draft machine"...which to my understanding compiles a list of possible men/women in certain demographical areas. once they finish with the list, they target those areas with recruiters to build up our forces...it hasnt been used since 1999. i dont think this is a good thing for our future troops but regardless i will support them, our president and our country regardless of who is in charge.<br /><br />Semper Fi<br />USMC - Cpl<br />1986-1991<br /><br />edited to say that i wont get into it but i disagree with 98% of what david just wrote, sorry david but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Some of you guys sound a lot smarter when you're limited to discussions of baseball cards solely. As Clint would say, "A man needs to know his limitations." I'm sure the moment Bush gets the word that Saddam is dead he will have a press conference and suggest that the war has been won.
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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Jeff, wouldn't be the first time he's said it though, right....? <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Daniel
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Posted By: <b>Brett</b><p>The Americans won't be leaving Iraq any time soon. If they pulled out, the country would have a civil war and be even more screwed up than it already is.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I get the NY Times delivered to my door every morning...good crossword puzzle. And the best news around (I know it is biased, that is why they invented the editorial page).
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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>The Americans won't be leaving Iraq any time soon. If they pulled out, the country would have a civil war and be even more screwed up than it already is. <br /> <br /> <br />SO? <br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Exactly Joe. It is time for the Iraqi people to stand on their own. Democracy is not handed out, it is earned.
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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>Anthony, if there is any Draft or other military build up, I hope it is to go and take out the bad guys in Syria and Iran. Remove those trouble makers and the Middle East will calm down for a while. The United States should stop pussyfooting around and take care of the root of the problem over there.<br /><br />Also, if they want to get Bin Laden, then they should drop a large nuclear bomb over those mountins in Afghanistan close to the Pakistani border. If it doesn't out right kill Bin Laden and his men, it might make them sick. It would also send a message to Pakistan to not harbor or aid and abet Bin Laden and his supporters.<br /><br />David
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Dan,<br /><br />Suppose Iraq doesn't want to be a democratic country. Remember, other middle east countries fear democracy more than anything. Would it be okay if Iraq reverts back to a dictatorship.<br /><br />Peter
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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>I could care less what happens to Iraq AFTER we a long gone. As long as not one more American Child is killed in that cess pool it can fall off into the gulf for all I care.<br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.
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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>"Do you guys all subscribe to the New York Times or what?"<br /><br />Just the editorial page. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> I get the headlines delivered via email daily, and usually all I have time to read are those editorial items that I don't have to pay extra for - and I'm still meaning to send in a check for those!<br /><br />Joann<br />
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Peter, I don't really care. Nation building is not the job of the United States Military. Our presence in the ME is nothing more than pouring fuel onto a fire. The best way to deal with the theocratic America haters is to ignore them. Stop buying their oil, stop positioning one country against another, stop selling arms to them...just plain stop. Instead of pouring my tax dollars into building schools for future America haters we should spend that money protecting our own borders.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I agree that if the Iraqis can't work out their own affairs and are set on killing each other, why should we care? They don't want a democracy; each faction just wants to wipe the other out. I say let them, and bring all those American kids home who are losing their lives and getting horribly maimed for nothing.
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Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>David, I don't believe the a-bomb is a feasible option any longer. To many other countries have a red button now.
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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>Steve, <br /><br />True, but if the intelligence organizations have an area where they think Bin Laden is it would be a better option than sending in more troops to scour the (desolate) area trying to find him.<br /><br />Then again, my idea rests on the concept that the United States has intelligence organizations that are capable, see WMD assertions before the Iraq War.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Barry, if only it were so easy to let the various bloodthirsty Muslim sects just kill each other off while we mind our own business. Alas, while a great theory, eventually one remaining bloodthirsty Muslim sect will fill the vacuum in the middle east, grab all the oil (i.e. money) and use the area as a launching ground against the great Satan, America.
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />That is exactly the problem the U.S. caused by destabilizing the area. The terrorists who use to be isolated radical factions within states now have the opportunity to dominate a country of their own. Bin Laden and other terrorists will have legitimacy and a platform for bashing the U.S. and rally other Islamic countries.<br /><br />Peter
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>No Jeff, it certainly isn't easy and in fact it is quite sad. But we are really helpless to do anything about it.
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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>I think this is bigger than just Iraq. Some people feel it's WWIII and other people think we should just pull out of the whole region. Either way, get ready for some craziness.
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />The hanging is set for 10 PM EST. Looks like Saddam is toast.<br /><br />Peter
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Posted By: <b>anthony</b><p>not to cross borders or anything, but iraq is the least of our problems...north korea is a lot worse situation than the people are lead to believe... their president, leader or whatever he is...is truly insane, far more insane than saddam....<br /><br />also, everyone with the exception of n. korea that has a "red button" is either an friend or a semi-friend... n. korea is neither and has no potential to be either, if the bomb is to be used anywhere it is on top of his house.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Hi Leon, how are you?...how's the weather in Dallas? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter, somehow I think the area's instability - permitting the likes of murderous muslim terrorists to run unchecked in their plots against American interests - existed prior to the war in Iraq. You've heard of 9/11, right?
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />That's true to some extent. However, crazy as he is, Saddam was the one person who could control Iraq and keep the terrorists out.<br /><br />Peter
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Out of Iraq, maybe. But hindsight is 20-20, remember. Had Saddam not wanted to scare all the other Muslim countries in the middle east by making them think he had WMD - by refusing to allow the inspectors in to poke around - he wouldn't be swinging in a few hours. Certainly, Saddam's own bloodthirsty actions, although legendary even amongst other bloodthirsty despots in the Middle East, had no impact on terrorism directed at America and our interests.
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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>.....in your own words....."That is exactly the problem the U.S. caused by destabilizing the area."<br /><br />WELL.....<br /><br />Are you old enough to REMEMBER.....the Iran hostage of Americans in 1979 ?<br /><br />Do you REMEMBER.....Sadaam attacking Kuwait in 1990 ?<br /><br />Do you REMEMBER.....the 1993 attempt by terrorists to blow-up the Twin Towers in NYC ?<br /><br />Do you REMEMBER.....our Marines murdered and dragged in the dirt in Somalia in 1993 by Al Queda<br /> terrorists ?<br /><br />Do you REMEMBER.....the two American Embassy bombings in Africa in 1996 ?<br /><br />Do you REMEMBER.....the USS Cole being damaged with the loss of our precious Navy man in 2000 ?<br /><br />Do you REMEMBER.....that terrorists on September 11, 2001 murdered 3000 people in New York City,<br /> Washington DC, and Shanksville, PA ?<br /><br />Do you REALIZE.....that all these tragic events occurred before we went into IRAQ ? ? ? ? ?<br /><br />I am very interested in your answer to this last question ?<br /><br />TED Z
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />Your points are well taken. I'm only referring to Iraq. Because of Saddam's Dictatorship he was able to maintain control of Iraq and keep the terrorists out of power in Iraq. That's all I'm saying.<br /><br />Peter
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Posted By: <b>Dylan</b><p>In todays world we have smart bombs and precision strikes all to limit collateral damage. But let's remember in warfare an enemy has to be literally brought to its knees to stabilize a foreign occupation and government transistion. Fighting a war cannot be police work. It seems that we've learned little from Vietnam. The nature of warefare is a dirty business and it must be treated so. A fervent enemy must be completly and utterly destroyed. However warefare of that nature seems to be a thing of the past and now operating a police state is the humane but IMO ineffective strategy. Dethroning Saddam has done nothing but unleashed sectarian violence which was suppressed by Saddam due to his brutality. Now rival factions have been given the oppurtunity to fight and attempt to consolidate power in Iraqs new government which is unstable and decentralized. Did it ever occur to anyone that it takes an authoritarian regime to govern such a fractured country with old hatreds of one another? Unfortunatly the capture of Bin Laden will likely have little effect if any on the capacity of al queda. These guys work in a organizational structure of covert cells that is intended to limit the harm that can be done if members are captured and interrogated. Bin Laden has long had the oppurtunity to prepare for his eventual death or capture. Although a symbolic victory it would be, tactically little would be accomplished. I am optimistic that positive change can happen, but truths need to be addressed and not swept under the rug.
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>The weather is crappy in Dallas. It's rainy and balmy. My personal belief on this matter is we should be happy Sadamn (sic) is going to hang and we should leave the region and let them all kill each other, if that's what they want to do. I was for the invasion at the time we did it but at this point it's a no win....again, we all have our views. Lets (see Barry no apostrophe <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>) keep this to one thread please....best regards
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Uh-oh..."let's" has an apostrophe, short for "let us." Keep at it, you'll have it down before the troops leave Iraq <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Dylan, you're right in the sense that if we really wanted to 'win' the war, we'd drop a two ton bomb on the next crowd that forms to support Al-Sadr. And instead of being terrified of scratching a mosque or hurting someone who is hiding a terrorist in his house, we'd probably be better off cleaning house, so to speak, in all of the muslim/terrorist hot spots. But then we'd just anger the French and the apologists in America who actually can say with a straight face that the hanging of Saddam is a bad thing.
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>My wife, or you, never told me of the "let's" being possibly "let us".....party foul...or in this case "apostrophe foul" .....that was bad...
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>You are forgiven (or should I say "you're" forgiven) <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Mmmh, interesting Jeff that you think only the French and a couple of apologists would find mass murder somewhat hard to stomache. I think if America indeed did drop massive bombs and killed tens of thousands of people at once - in some sort of strategic measure to further an ability to dominate a nation of different peoples, it would not have a single friend in the entire world who would stand shoulder to shoulder with them. Not Australia, not Israel, no-one in todays world belives in such indiscriminate slaughter. That you find it a good line of thinking is disturbing....<br />And, as I discuss with friends and family regularly, all one has to do is imagine a foreign force sitting on our red white and blue shores, militarily dominating the American people and running its goverment, and wonder how many young and old americans would be more than happy to blow themselves up in order to cause pain to the interloper. And we would all call them brave, and patriots, and not the adjectives we use to describe these fanatical nationalists we encounter in Iraq.<br />That they seem crazy in their religious and nationalist zeal shouldn't be a stretch, just imagine the rest of the world looking on to american t.v and viewing prayers by players before and after basketball and football games, actors thanking their god for the good fortune of getting golden statues, a president who says god has guided him in making these world decisions he so hopelessly fails at, and everywhere the red white and blue flags hang on cars, houses and government buildings, and the USA with a standing army over a million and with bases on every continent and country......<br /><br />Saddam should die by his people's hands for his acts of murder and deprivation, but it would have been nice if his own people cared enough to bring him down themselves.<br />And 911? Gee, when will everyone leave 911 and Iraq as the 2 COMPLETELY seperate issues that anyone and everyone who has done any investigation has absolutely sworn to be the case. Bin Laden, Al Quieda, Taliban, Afghanistan. Saddam, Iraq, Oil and personal vendetta.<br /><br />Daniel
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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Barry<br /><br />The only thing I can contribute on a meaningful level to this thread is: shouldn't the verb in the title be "hanged" rather than "hung"?<br /><br /><a href="http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000278.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000278.htm</a><br /><br />Yours apostrophetically,<br /><br />Mack's<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Hahahaa. Post of the day goes to Max. "Apostrophetically"? Mack's? haha.<br /><br />Thanks for those. I laughed right out loud.<br /><br />J
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Daniel, your sensitivity towards suicide bombers is really impressive. You are quite the sensitive man. I award you the Rachel Corrie Award for trying oh so hard to humanize those sad, suicide bombers. I guess Bin Laden and his bunch felt so unfairly treated by Americans that they thought it was simply a cry for freedom to kill 3000 Americans on 9/11. Also, your attempt to equate athletes' prayers before games to homicidal maniacs screaming "God is greatest" before cutting off the heads of innocents is also quite the impressive leap in logic.
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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Max,<br /><br />My bad, but I was running out of room on the Topic space. Now, I'm starting to sound like Barry. Oh no. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter
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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Your reply.....<br />"But then we'd just anger the French and the apologists in America who actually can say with a<br /> straight face that the hanging of Saddam is a bad thing."<br /><br />Jeff, you will only become more frustrated in trying to convince a certain segment of this country of<br /> your rational thinking with respect to the Middle East.<br /><br />You will never be able to conduct a civil debate with 1/3 of the people who are diametrically opposed<br /> to your thoughts. Another 1/3 don't give a crap, and 1/3 do AGREE with your thinking. This breakdown<br /> is representative of human nature, today....as it was when George Washington fought the Revolution.<br /><br />History books will tell you that only 1/3 of the Colonists were supportive of the Rev. War....1/3 were<br /> loyal to England....and 1/3 could care less.<br /><br />You just can't fight it, guy.....it's just the way people are constituted.<br /><br />Have a very HAPPY NEW YEAR.....everybody.<br /><br />TED Z <br />
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Ted, can you email me your email address?
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Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>I'm with Jeff, it's amazing how many savants we have on this board who actually sound sane and intelligent when talking about baseball cards, but are apparently mentally challenged in non-card discussions. <br /><br />America, f**k yeah! <br /><br />-Ryan
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Max- you are correct...but if they do a good job would you then say Saddam was well hung? (sorry guys, I know it's bad but I couldn't resist. Please forgive me).
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Barry, no steak for you due to that last pun. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Do you remember the Crusades?<br />Do you remember the colonial occupation of the middle east?<br />Do you remember the arbitrary drawing of national borders and the propping up of despots as rulers?<br />Do you remember the American arming of Sadaam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq War?('The enemy of my enemy is my friend' is a very dangerous foreign policy.)<br />Do you remember the CIA training of al-Quaeda in Afghanistan to help fight the USSR? ('The enemy of my enemy is my friend' is a very dangerous foreign policy.)<br /><br />I could go on. Most Muslims in the Middle East hold these historical events quite clearly in their minds. <br /><br />I would never claim that Muslim responses to Western actions have been ethical or appropriate. They have been aweful and condemnable! But it would certainly be a mistake to think that Muslim terrorist actions against the West have come out of nowhere or arose out of some historical void where there was no wrong committed to provoke anything.<br /><br />JimB
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"Do you remember the Crusades?<br />Do you remember the colonial occupation of the middle east?<br />Do you remember the arbitrary drawing of national borders and the propping up of despots as rulers?<br />Do you remember the American arming of Sadaam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq War?('The enemy of my enemy is my friend' is a very dangerous foreign policy.)<br />Do you remember the CIA training of al-Quaeda in Afghanistan to help fight the USSR? ('The enemy of my enemy is my friend' is a very dangerous foreign policy.)"<br /><br />Jim, and what does any of this have to do with the daily slaughter of Muslims by Muslims in Iraq today? Or the fact that more Muslims have been killed by Muslims than those which were killed by Israel and America over the past 25 years?<br />
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- I agree that it is a two way street and that the west has no concept of the Muslim world. But after 9/11 any hope of a mutual understanding vanished forever.
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Posted By: <b>Chris Counts</b><p>So when do pitchers and catchers report? Late February? It won't be soon enough ... I guess it's just a matter of time before someone links Saddam's execution to the rise in prices of "E' cards ... I'm reminded of that wonderful saying by Rogers Hornsby when he was asked about what he does in the off-season ...<br /><br />"I sit and stare out the window and wait for spring to come ..."
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p><br />"Jim, and what does any of this have to do with the daily slaughter of Muslims by Muslims in Iraq today? Or the fact that more Muslims have been killed by Muslims than those which were killed by Israel and America over the past 25 years?"<br /><br /><br />Jeff,<br />Nothing other than that the brutality that is commonplace in that part of the world seems to fly in every direction. In no way do I condone any of the attrocious actions that have taken place in the name of Islam - either towards Americans or other Muslims. I find them utterly appalling and I wish there were some Muslim leaders with enough courage to stand up and condemn them, but I have seen far too little of it. At least in America you find people who are willing to voice dissent. That is one of the great things about democracy. In fact, that is what makes democracy work. I think most people in most Middle Eastern countries are so afraid that if they did voice dissent, they would lose their lives and the livelihoods for their families. Transition to democracy will be very slow there, if it every takes off. We would be naive to think otherwise - though I think our rulers expected there to be a democratic party in the streets of Bagdad about three years ago when our mission was accomplished.<br /><br />Though I teach a bit on Islam in my World Religions class, I am no Islamic/Quaranic scholar. My impression however is that the extremists like al-Quaeda are twisting the message of Islam. But I think that twisted message is unfortunately becoming more broadly accepted. When we continue with the sorts of policies in that region that we have, it only encourages it.<br /><br />JimB <br /><br /><br />
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>Your reply.....<br />"But then we'd just anger the French and the apologists in America who actually can say with a<br />straight face that the hanging of Saddam is a bad thing."<br /><br />Jeff, you will only become more frustrated in trying to convince a certain segment of this country of<br />your rational thinking with respect to the Middle East.<br /><br />You will never be able to conduct a civil debate with 1/3 of the people who are diametrically opposed<br />to your thoughts. Another 1/3 don't give a crap, and 1/3 do AGREE with your thinking. This breakdown<br />is representative of human nature, today....as it was when George Washington fought the Revolution.<br /><br />History books will tell you that only 1/3 of the Colonists were supportive of the Rev. War....1/3 were<br />loyal to England....and 1/3 could care less.<br /><br />You just can't fight it, guy.....it's just the way people are constituted.<br /><br />Have a very HAPPY NEW YEAR.....everybody.<br /><br />TED Z <br /><br /><br />Wow talk about hitting the nail on the head Ted.<br />As usual "we" seem to be outnumbered.<br />But i think most of our peers just choose not to get into an impossible argument with the libs and lefties. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Jeff. <br /><br />As usual i am in complete agreement. Please keep up the good fight. I just don't have the time right now.<br /><br />......Wow, to think i agree with a lawyer.... See anythings possible. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>there isn't any reason to be in Iraq ,one of our soldiers life is<br />worth more then Bin Laden's period ! Sad situation.
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim, well-said. And I agree with everythng you've said. I think the problem is that there is only a limit to how long you can sit idly by while the Muslim fanatics go about trying to destroy us. Consider what is going on in Israel and Gaza now. Israel has agreed to a ceasefire only to be bombarded by Muslim rocket fire every single day. Indeed, the rocket launchers have said that they are simply trying to goad Israel into attacking them and scotching the ceasefire. One party to the cease fire, Hamas, is taking no action in stopping the launching of rockets from its side. Should Israel move out of the West Bank completely probably 75% of all surrounding Muslims will not stop their daily attacks until Israel ceases to exist. Should Israel cease to exist, it is fairly clear that the various sects of Muslims contained in that area will then turn their weapons on each other. The sad solution is to either build a wall to contain the homicidal maniacs on the other side or obliterate them all.
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Jeff,<br />I agree with you and I have no idea what the solution, if there is one, to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is. Unfortunately I think it is going to continue for a very long time. As long as there is a significant group of Palestinians who sabotage all efforts at cease-fires and a peace process out of conviction that Israel has no right to exist at all, there will be no peace. It is a very sad situation.<br />Jim
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with subscribing to the NY Times. Is this code for something--perhaps a liberal left-wing conspiracy? I don't get that comment.....<br />Oh, by the way, I am a subscriber. Best newspaper around.<br /><br />Brian
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Some people feel that if you read the NY Times you are a liberal, a communist, or god knows what. The fact that they have the best reporters in the world doesn't seem to matter much.
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Barry<br /><br />I thought it was the fact that the Sunday edition is really heavy, and the ink got on your hands. Who knew the real reason? <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Max
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>Brett</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />I don't think you understand... <br /><br />If the Americans leave Iraq, they'll have a civil war. When Iraq has their civil war, the country might end up with a "dictator" thats even worse than Hussein. He'll most likely be anti American because im betting most of the people in Iraq hate the Americans... He'll then let in as many terrorists into the country as he can... then Iraq will be the headquarters for Al Qaeda... planning more attacks against the western world ( mainly the US ) They'll smuggle WMDs into the country and thats the ball game. <br /><br />But then again, according to Joe "who cares?"<br /><br />Also, the Americans were the ones responsible for Hussein taking power, so basically, blame your own government. <br /><br />I could go on more of a rant, but I don't feel like getting into a useless flame war. <br /><br />Have a good night.
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>anthony</b><p>do you remember ty cobb 1911?<br />do you remember joe jackson 1919?<br />do you remember cy young 1905?<br />do you remember walter johnson 1904?<br />do you remember christy mathewson 1910?<br />do you remember the last time we talked about these guys?<br />hehehehe<br />this is/was a good o/t post...it is obvious that there is a wide variety of opinions on this subject and it seems that the majority of us support our troops which is always good.<br />
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Some of you are too young to remember but Ronald Reagan gave Iraq a huge military arsenal to use against our "enemy" Iran. Old Teflon Ronnie got a pass when it all blew up in his face and Saddam was no longer our "buddy."<br />I vote we get out now, we shouldn't have gotten in in the first place. Bush said there were "weapons of mass destruction" despite all the observers who said there weren't. We "had" to do something after 9-11 so we lashed out at GW's dad's enemy under the pretense of destroying those WIMDs which were proven never to have existed. Once he had egg all over his face, GW conveniently turned the war from a preventive strike and punishment of Saddam to a war to free Iraq and democracize Iraq.<br />What bull hockey. We need to quit trying to be the world's policeman and turn our attention to all the problems which exist here. <br />I thought we learned our lesson from Vietnam but apparenlt the old idiom "those who can not remember history are doomed to repeat it" is never so true. <br />If we offered huge financial incentives, which would be a drop in the bucket compared to what we have spent in Iraq, to develop non-gasoline powered automobiles, we would no longer need to be dependent on mideastern oil or need to rape the environment in Alaska. I guarantee if the incentive were great enough, the technology would be found, but the corporate powers who make so much money off petroleum based products will fight it tooth and nail...
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'm with Tbob. We need to leave and let them decide how they want to run their own country. We shouldn't have been there in the first place. We've done more harm than good.
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p>Some of you are too young to remember but Ronald Reagan gave Iraq a huge military arsenal to use against our "enemy" Iran. Old Teflon Ronnie got a pass when it all blew up in his face and Saddam was no longer our "buddy."<br />I vote we get out now, we shouldn't have gotten in in the first place. Bush said there were "weapons of mass destruction" despite all the observers who said there weren't. We "had" to do something after 9-11 so we lashed out at GW's dad's enemy under the pretense of destroying those WIMDs which were proven never to have existed. Once he had egg all over his face, GW conveniently turned the war from a preventive strike and punishment of Saddam to a war to free Iraq and democracize Iraq.<br />What bull hockey. We need to quit trying to be the world's policeman and turn our attention to all the problems which exist here. <br />I thought we learned our lesson from Vietnam but apparenlt the old idiom "those who can not remember history are doomed to repeat it" is never so true. <br />If we offered huge financial incentives, which would be a drop in the bucket compared to what we have spent in Iraq, to develop non-gasoline powered automobiles, we would no longer need to be dependent on mideastern oil or need to rape the environment in Alaska. I guarantee if the incentive were great enough, the technology would be found, but the corporate powers who make so much money off petroleum based products will fight it tooth and nail...<br />
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Saddam Hussein has just been executed. He is dead and gone. Good riddance.
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>Dylan</b><p>Jim we are all aware of the arming of Afgahnistan taliban and Iraq during the Iran Iraq war but lets not forget the context of those agendas. There was a much larger threat looming that took priority over all other and that was the cold war with the Soviet Union. U.S. priorities and interests change with are enemies. These shifts in policy are a neccesity to balance power in regions of instability. Now in hindsight perhaps the soviets would have failed in Afgahnistan without covert CIA weapons and perhaps Iraq and Iran war would have ended in a stalemate without our intervention, but what if they didnt? What if most of the middle east oil production was under the control of the Iranians? Or the Soviet Union prevailed in Afgahnistan? Sometimes the end result justify the means.
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>......??? (oops, that was a few years ago.)
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Any suggestion that all Muslims are fanatics who only refrain from killing each other because they can kill Israelis seems a gross oversimplification to me.
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O/T Reality Check Sad and Insane May be Hung Soon
Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>Again, I'd like to recommend the excellent documentary "Team America - World Police" which chronicles our country's righteous history of democratizing the planet. <br /><br />A must-see for anyone interested in U.S. foreign policy.<br /><br />-Ryan<br /><br />
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