Heritage putting up junk on their website for all to see. fake ALI
 

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...lotIdNo=111002

why does heritage put up this obvious carp when it is so obvious bad and we have seen them a million times and heritage has pulled them a bunch of times already. Doesn't anyone there know what one of these operation bullpen phase two john olson/chuck wepner signed fake autographs looks like yet.

Why do they keep doing this? It makes them look real bad. Aren't they suppose to be a professional auction house?

Do they really need Steve Spence or Jimmy Grad to tell them its no good. they can't figure it out beforehand? M. Guttierez isn't there and doesn't know this fake by now? Who is there???

Which one do you think looks like a carp? sorry but it's just not obvious to me.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...JMwaDe414-aN7P

Probably the same carp that won't allow me to join the "Planet."

Doesn't Travis always complain about a certain web site he claims only allows like-minded opinions? Gee, is he doing the same thing on his site? :rolleyes:

Exactly, Mr. Zipper....

Thank you.

They are the only auction house that spends money to unpack, data enter, photograph, write up descriptions for and list an item that someone can obviously see in 5 seconds that it is one of the most notorious, and well known boxing fakes ever invented.

They should open the box, look inside, close the box, and there I just saved the auction house a lot of money and man hours.

I guess that is their choice.. thank goodness for psa and jsa to save potential buyers. They do a great service to Heritage and the industry. Money well spent. :)

Why would you want to pay all those people, to take time out of their busy day, to data enter, photograph, write the write-up for the listing, type it in and put up the listing, only to take it down when all you need is a picture of that type of fake right there in the shipping/rec. area and when it comes in just reject it.

plus the embarrassment of putting it up only to be shown it is a fake over and over and over again. how many now? a lot! Guttierez is on jsa staff for pete sake, he cant find this and boot it off right away?

My question is. If you and anyone on this site knows it is bad why post it. It is not thank god that psa or anyone would find it to be bad. We all know its bad.:confused:
I am not here to protect Travis. I just can not stand that auction houses put garbage in our face and then make tpa's look good by takeing down items that never should have been there:mad::mad:

They don't have that many Ali's coming in. you would think a quick check of things could get this one pulled before they take time photographing it, and writing up a description and posting it on their website. what a waste!

That's all $$$ out the door. why?

Dude.. you gotta get over it. It is their money to waste. It really is not a big deal at all. If they want to do it this way, they can. They get great prices realized so it really doesn't matter if it bothers a select few. Especially if the few it bothers don't bid on the ACTUAL ITEMS that go to auction anyway. They are not out to fool anyone.. it is just how their process works.
You should thank them. It gives you constant, repetative crap to post on here in attempt to make them look bad and you look like an expert.

Ben is right. Travis is in a minority and the situation that he's complaining about was created by the majority, and it is all about money. It works for the TPA's and the auction houses, and the majority of people are happy as hell with it. Travis - you should just feel fortunate that you are in that informed minority, although that can be quite a burden. Just ask guys like Nietsche, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Van Gogh, etc.

Blissfully ignorant people have always helped make the world a happier place. I think I will drink my next beer to them.

cheers!! :)

Lol. I spit out my coffee on this one.

Oh, come now....
;)

Steve, do you mean the "Planet" didn't approve your registration either.....

Shocking..............

Not....

Steve, it wasn't Travis that didn't accept our registration over at the "Planet." It was probably Mueller.....

No, I did not apply. I was referring to you and someone else we know who applied and was rejected as well.

Apparently they want everyone singing from the same sheet. That's fine.. it's their web site and they can do anything they want with it. The hypocrisy is that it is the same thing Travis loudly criticizes Cyrkin for (which is a false claim in the first place.)

all i know is heritage likes to ban people. people trying to help them. but they dont want to hear it.

Can you explain what is bad about it? Doesn't pop out to me.

I am really loving this thread. I like that Travis says whatever he thinks and doesn't go ballistic when we ridicule him. Travis - hope to meet you at next year's National. You have started some very entertaining threads and as a boxing collector, I am grateful for your sharing of your boxing autograph knowledge.

while I agree with your ASSessment of Heritage, it sounds like you are a bigger, dumber and stupider than even Heritage. They ban you, you ban them, ban everybody...I wish they would ban you from this respected site, slant boy....as you garner about as much respect as Rodney Dangerfield....AND pretty much as humorous in a knumbest of skulls kinda way. Pretty much a confirmed jerk-off, IMHO

Chuck, next time, please tell us how you really feel................

I don't believe my question has been answered?

I have learned from reading these boards is Travis never answers direct questions.

xxxxx

......

. . . . . . . .

Thank you, and i have learned that if you want to say something, no need for others permission.

I see heritage has even ANOTHER operation bullpen Ali up on the its site right now, so two stinkers stinking it up over there.

Geez, Rich, I guess Travis & Nora Roste, Todd Mueller and Koschal must like you. I see they accepted you as a member of "The Planet."

These same pieces show up on ebay and they are pieces of carp. but on heritage, it's no big deal? why?

"Are you talking about me again, Travis?"

Attachment 110679

They're getting worse as they go.

"autographed with one of the most desirable variations of all"

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...No=45010#Photo
http://www.fighttoys.com/Ali,Muhamma...%205a%20SR.jpg

exactly, the john olson/chuck wepner variation, so desirable!

they truly embarrass themselves. they are not boxing aficionados at all. they don't care.

They put them up without knowing if its good or not.

there is no difference between this and someone on ebay just throwing something up not knowing if what they are selling is good or not. Most will get mad at the ebayer who doesnt know if an autograph is good and just slaps it up there, but they are okay with a major auction house doing it. they actually spent money on a photographer and caption writer who took their time to put this up on their website when all they had to do is take one look at it and throw it in the garbage and save everyone some $$$. Businesses pass these extra operationg costs onto the consumer. It's basic economics.

I am not okay with this.

Travis, it really doesn't seem like you are listening to your fellow forum members. The people buying this stuff want something that looks 'close enough' to impress their friends or fill a hole in their collection - the PSA or JSA letter makes it real enough, and buying from a major auction house makes it even more 'real'. It is a symbiotic relationship between the consumer, the TPAs and the customers - everyone involved is a winner, and YOU are not one of the players. It isn't your game.

Well Travis.....keep plugging away.....even if you are that one lone voice in the wilderness....personally, I commend what you do.

Regardless of what paper it comes with, what auction house sells it, or who buys it, a fake will always be a fake, and nothing will ever change that.

I thought this forum was to help stop the sale of forgeries, not condone this simply because one is tired of hearing about it over and over.

Dave, who are you rebutting? I've never seen anyone anywhere on this forum, condone the sale of forgeries.

No one has condoned the sale of fakes. It's just that not everyone is committed to waging a crusade against Heritage showing bad items in PREVIEW. The item in question is currently in preview and is scheduled to auction October 24 - 26.

The fact of the matter is these items are pulled before the auction goes live and they are not sold. So the only victim I see is Heritage's image.

Does Heritage have a bad process if they are throwing items in preview before they are properly screened? In my opinion - yes.

Will I spend more than 5 seconds thinking about it? Nope.

I'd rather focus my energy on entities that are actually selling bad items... not just showing them off before they are withdrawn prior to auction.

This is the first thing I read on the link provided in the OP:

Note: Heritage Auctions' preview items are posted for the enjoyment and convenience of our clients, as well as to seek feedback from experts before the descriptions and authentication are finalized. As such, these items may not have yet been properly described or vetted. Our auction previews let you watch our auction grow. We post individual lots in our previews as soon as they have a description or a picture, so you don't have to wait until the auction is posted to get a glimpse of the items you want. We are continuing to add and correct information as we approach the auction posting date, so check back here often and Contact us with any comments or suggestions.

I agree that this is not the most efficient business practice, but HA can do whatever they want. I don't see it as damaging to the hobby.

Please don't get in the way of Travis's crusade to nowhere. Go get 'em Travis, you houndog you!!

i suppose when we got heritage to stop putting "auction loa-jsa" on their lots leon, when jsa hadnt looked at them yet, that was an action to nowhere too?

thanks for helping with that by the way. go get em leon!

heritage the only auction house which puts up any old thing that comes in the door first and THEN vetting it later. it's unbelievable. We don't need leon's help to get heritage to do the right thing. we did it once already without his help, too high of a price to pay for some, we got our accounts banned, so please don't get up leon, you are fine where you are.

Kudos to Heritage! :D;)

We, we, we; The Group lives!

I get private messages, emails from people who tell me they agree but they can't say so publicly for fear of retaliation or retribution. A number of people.

Some are scared of being singled out or banned for having an opinion that differs from the so called established line that some of these big entities like heritage have set forth as what you must believe in order to be in good graces in the collecting community. IF you disagree you have to talk the gauntlet and be on the 'outs'.

I personally have not experienced any auction house that is more unreceptive to customer concerns and unwilling to change for the better of the hobby and the collecting experience like this auction house. We aren't asking them to change the color scheme of their website or something trivial, just asking to do a modicum of research beforehand to keep the fake autographs off of the auction website. They even let these fakes go live for internet auction bidding. Why?

Chris Ivy will you come on here. no he will not, if he does, what a mriacle. he can tell collectors why these hideous autographs go up on the website.

The problem with you Travis is that you don't listen. Had you read the Heritage statement above, that was posted, you wouldn't have commented about them and the autographs on their site. They want to do it the way they are doing it, vetting after the fact. I also think it might not be the most efficient way but that is the way they do it. For you to comment the way you did means everyone is correct about you, you fail to listen.

Now, if they let auctions go up for bid that aren't good, that's a different story, and they SHOULD be pointed out. And for the record, it takes a ton to get banned from Heritage. I know Chris Ivy quite well and I can safely say that if someone questions something, in a professional manner, then they will not get banned. I think there is a lot behind you being banned...and it's not just because you politely and professionally questioned items in their auctions. Most likely it's because you incessantly pestered their executives and also called Heritage fraudulent, which they aren't. Do they, and have they, made mistakes; absolutely. Do they commit fraud, no. It's all in the way you deliver your message Travis. Almost every single person on this board points out that the way you go about your crusade is wrong. But then, you don't listen so what's the use in pointing it out? Just like this post of mine, you won't listen. Here's a hint...when everyone else is wrong, take a long hard look in the mirror, because "everyone" else usually isn't wrong. It's quite the shame too, because I am sure you are good at your niche of autographs. But many hobbyists don't realize it, or can't get to the good part of your rants, because of the way your message comes across. There are a lot of bad guys in the hobby but Heritage isn't one of them.

Should there be some concern that newbies could be using these fakes they see on Heritage to self authenticate fakes on ebay, craigslist, etc? After all, it is Heritage one of the largest sports auctions in the world. I personally think they bring great items to market and do a good job overall, but I think them posting fakes on their site at all can reflect badly on them. I will not however lose much sleep over it and will still bid on card lots that I can use.

James, my thought is that having an exemplar (good or bad) is not enough if you don't know 'enough' about autographs to do accurate comparisons.

There are at least four levels of autograph-recognition skills: 1) expert on the autograph; 2) can tell good from bad (most of the time) if given exemplars; 3) think they can tell good from bad if given exemplars, but really can't; 4) admittedly have to have someone else do everything for them.

There is no protecting those in category #3.

I am probably a 4 trying to climb the ladder and hope to skip rung number three if I can keep my balance.

#3 is a bad place to be. My best learning experiences have been when I was certain something was bad and it turned out to be a strange variation - I don't mind those experiences or the small amount of embarrassment they cause.

I think having a great outlet like this has been helpful for myself all the squabbling aside I learn a lot on here.

From first-hand experience I can tell you that statement is far from the truth. After being involved in a lawsuit concerning the autograph of multiple boxing champion Robert Fitzsimmons...

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit.htm

... I had the audacity and balls to point out a fake autograph of the subject to the "executives" at Heritage.

http://www.fighttoys.com/Fitzsimmons...itage%20SR.jpg

No incessant pestering or name calling, just indubitable evidence supporting my findings. Sometime afterwards I made a web page with the evidence I presented to Heritage in an effort to explain to my customers why I do not honor or respect the opinions of any self proclaimed third party authenticators...

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit%20Fitz%20wife.htm

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit%20Fitz%20wifeb.htm

... One day I try to log on to Heritage and it states my account has been suspended and I need to contact their credit department. I call the number given thinking my credit card needed updating and was told I need to call another number and talk to a Chris Ivey. I call and there is no answer, I call a second time and again, no answer. I call the original number and the person on the line tells me that my account needs to remain suspended. No reason or explanation given.

Was my account suspended because of a credit issue as stated on the Heritage site or was my account suspended because of the posts I made on my web site?

Heritage, is my account suspension just or is it your child-like behavior simply trying to make an opposing opinion go away? Other than my opposing opinions please come on here and post all the evidence you can revealing any frauds, scams, or lies I've committed in this hobby thus far.

Mark O.
Schenectady, NY

can heritage answer that.

i am the one who email the executive, namely steve ivy, the boss. and i didnt pester him, i sent one email explaining how the sports dept. was failing in doing a good job, especially in boxing.

you can post the email if you want to. i didnt even name anyones name, never mentioned chris ivy in the email, as to not give the impression i am picking on someones kid. I just mentioned 'sports dept"

what they dont realize is that we tried over and over and over and over again to help heritage the nice way, and they fixed nothing, kept doing the same junk over and over again. basically tells you to get lost and keep walking pal.

they put up a wife signed fitzsimmons that psa certs, now psa has that same autograph on their psaautographfacts page, and i emailed orlando and grad as well as posted here and elsewhere that its bogus, and I show proof.

And it is still up on the autograph facts page as a genuine fitzsimmons autograph. This is what you get from these organizations when they they just dont care and are deaf to the hobby.

They still have the marciano signed letter as an exemplar on autograph facts also. they know its no good, but they arent going to admit they made a mistake.

Also recently Heritage sold an Spinks/Ali scorecard from their first fight, and Heritage said that Spinks gave up his championship belt in order to fight Ali.

Of course not doing their full homework, this is incorrect, Spinks only surrendered the WBC belt, not the WBA belt, which Ali subsequently won in their second matchup in order to be the first 3 time world heavyweight champion.

Now it's funny because I told Heritage of their clumsy error, but I didn't email Chris Ivy of the mistake, I emailed Steve Ivy, the boss and Heritage corrected the description. Now if I am banned, and Steve Ivy was so mad that I emailed him the first time letting him know how the sports dept. leaves much to be desired, why wasn't my email address in his delete/junk file, and why didn't he delete my email as soon as he saw it. He didn't, he read it and go the description changed. This is hardly pestering or abusing senior executives. If helping them out like this and correcting a description due to their lack of knowledge of boxing history is pestering, I am guilty.

Heritage doesn't know what to say. They say what they think you will believe. If you buy their line, then that's thier official line they are going to go with.

http://www.psaautographfacts.com/Aut...ob-fitzsimmons

http://www.psaautographfacts.com/Aut...rocky-marciano

Still up on autograph facts website, or is it autograph fiction? NOt only that, they say that joe frazier didnt change his autograph from the 1960's onward, (incorrect), and that Robert Fitzsimmons sometimes signed as Robt. Fitzsimmons, (incorrect).
Who is in charge over there, I let orlando and grad know and they don't do anything, so they must not be in charge.

No promises but I will see what I can find out.

A few points to update.

Travis- I don't believe your suspension has to do with authentication at all. I think you did something Chris asked you not to do. Since I wasn't there I am not going into it anymore.

Mark- Auction houses can say who they do and don't want bidding in their auctions. Their issue has nothing to do with any specific authentication. I can't really go into it publicly though, since it's a delicate area. It's nothing too egregious, imo, but suffice it to say they don't want you bidding in their auctions. I would imagine if you email Chris he will at least respond, unless he has told you before. And btw, the one piece you are talking about, according to them, got pulled...even though it had a PSA/DNA LOA....and I understand you were thanked for your help with it.

LL

Name another auction house that does it this way? none. they told me it is the way big auction houses run auctions. (telling people it is jsa auction loa when they hadn't looked at it yet?) they must be the only big auction house then.

leon, they are clueless at boxing in my opinion. but putting up the fakes ahead of time applies to every genre, not just boxing, but since i know boxing, it really sticks out like a sore thumb. i have contacted many different auction houses over the years, this is the only one that treats people like this. i would get an email from someone and i would say "they treated you like that too, me too!" it was uncanny how they take your suggestion or correction, then condescend and no other auction house does that. they all say thank you, then make the correction, not tell you how big auction houses do business and essentially you can go take a hike, thanks but no thanks, dont call us we'll call you. That's the feeling you get when you try to help this auction house. You feel like you are talking to someone who takes it personally and thinks he is being exposed as not being a big boxing guy when I could care less, I just want it right for the consumers sake so he tries to make you feel small. they sell 800 million $$$ a year in collectibles and can't run it through someone first who knows autographs and boxing history so they can write accurate descriptions and make sure the bad stuff stays off the site? This is exactly why people are mad at ebay, when any piece of carp shows up and they try to contact ebay about it but it can't get taken down.

Those two Muhammad Ali Operation bullpen autographs are still up at the auction house and they know about them. why?

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...lotIdNo=111002

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...&lotIdNo=45010

A few points to update.

Travis- I don't believe your suspension has to do with authentication at all. I think you did something Chris asked you not to do. Since I wasn't there I am not going into it anymore.

Mark- Auction houses can say who they do and don't want bidding in their auctions. Their issue has nothing to do with any specific authentication. I can't really go into it publicly though, since it's a delicate area. It's nothing too egregious, imo, but suffice it to say they don't want you bidding in their auctions. I would imagine if you email Chris he will at least respond, unless he has told you before. And btw, the one piece you are talking about, according to them, got pulled...even though it had a PSA/DNA LOA....and I understand you were thanked for your help with it.

LL



Leon, you know nothing about it, okay, that's for sure.


Jonathon told this board a few months ago that it was my email to steve ivy that did it. well, post the email for everyone to see. i got nothing to hide. so now it is something else? chris never told me not to email his dad. i emailed the higher ups because the lower downs didnt care at all, and i never said the words "chris ivy" to the dad, because i didnt want it to be personal, i only said sports dept. so is it the email or not? you don't know, they keep switching their story every month. it's a guessing game. Why did jonathon say one thing, now leon is saying something else, because he heard it from ? and ? and chris won't even come on here, he's too busy with whatever. Come on here chris, post the email, give your side, lets go!

Nice to know you are telling us why we got banned when you even say you dont know for sure, and wont go into it any further, when WE weren't even told by heritage directly why, but we know why, we dont need to hear rumors from you.

thanks for telling mark why he got banned, oh thats right, you didnt. you dont know anything about it. if you know, let's hear specfiics. what a joke. are you their spokesman? now go confer with heritage before you give you next non-answer.

Settle down Travis. Are you foaming at the mouth? You are writing that way. It is very unbecoming of you.

First of all it doesnt have anything to do with you. now you're condescending towards me when no one carbon copied you on any email concerning any of this.

how were you ever in the loop? you weren't.

now trying to shame me because you want others to think i am writing this in an unbecoming way. it's ridiculous. Me and others have valid concerns that go unaddressed by them and we are the bad guys. nice. if that's what you need to believe to go on with your day, fine. Just what does it have to do with you anyway? why don't you start an I love heritage thread? who is stopping you?

On the contrary, Leon, I think it's quite becoming of Travis, but, of course, I could be full of carp......

Attachment 110806

Very odd situation we have: on the one hand you have JSA and PSA, and the mutually beneficial ($$$) relationship they have with the major auction houses, which requires very little actual autograph expertise. On the other hand you have the real autograph experts right here on Net 54, who have no relationship with the major auction houses, or in some cases, bad relationships.

Then you have the customers, relying for the most part on the auction houses to supply them with autographs. The ones who don't hang out here are basically screwed, or at least have a greater than 50/50 chance of getting screwed each time they make a purchase. The others are either getting screwed knowingly and are happy with it, or are relying on their own expertise and that of the Net 54 experts, to not get screwed.

There has to be a better way.

What makes me upset leon is that jonathan comes on here says one thing, then now you say another, and people dont know the truth. can you two guys get your story straght?

Why is it Mr. huggins can come on here, Doug Allen can, Mr. Goldin, but not Mr Ivy? Are you his surrogate, you dont even know any sides of the story. You certainly don't know what was said to me. did you know when Chris Ivy said that Heritage took care of the jsa auction loa premature listings, he said that they were responding to collectors concerns and were proactive, etc. etc. what he didnt say is that I alerted him to the problem 8 months prior and was given the cold shoulder. Why is that?

That wasn't the truth. It just got big enough and enough of a story that they had to do something about it, not because they "cared". They could have "cared" 8 months prior when it was brought up and an article even written about it. but since the article didnt get wide exposure, they felt they didnt have to address it. Then when they felt they had to, all of the sudden they are an auction house who wants to do everything they can to help the customer. you just have to give me a break leon. you know what i write is true. quit taking the blame for them. it's not worth it.

Travis- Chris doesn't post on message boards. That's his call.

I am relaying what was told to me. He told you not to email any executive. You did. You are banned for that. It had nothing to do with the content of the email. It is the fact you emailed at all. How can you possibly not be able to interpret what I just said?

To be clear, yes you only sent one email. Chris said he made it very clear to you that your account would be suspended if you emailed an exec. You did and your account was suspended.

Huggins and Scott had several autos up in their last preview that were redacted after PSA looked at them. I can post a link to the thread on these boards discussing it. I think it makes them look sloppy and wish they wouldn't do it, but I do not view it as egregious or fraudulent in any way.

Your link does not discuss the outcome of the lawsuit. Why?

It certainly does. The court found for the defendant, and against PSA.

Ah, I had to go back and I now see the link within the link that says as much.

Very glad to see that. The court should very well have found what they did. However, I do feel the need to point out that they did not find anything against PSA. The court merely and rightfully stated that PSA is rendering an opinion, nothing more or less, which is not enough to show that the defendant acted fraudulently.

You are correct, Wayne. I shouldn't have phrased it as I did.

psa didnt show up in court to help bolster the plaintiffs case, they werent required to, but they didnt break their legs trying to get to the courthouse either, if you know what i mean.

all the defendant had to do is show the multitude of prior errors by the authentication company. He showed the court that the opinion of the company, with no reasoning or proof to back up their opinion other than vague terms that mean nothing, was backed by nothing meaningful and their so called expertise should be thrown out, which it was.

but it was not a good day for the validity of psa rejection letters as far as a court is concerned, and if psa would have went there to testify on behalf of the plaintiff, then you really would have seen a show for better or for worse. I would love to question them as to their processes and procedures.

But see, this is just it: PSA is the first to say that their opinion SHOULD NOT hold up in a court of law. The dumbass who tried to sue your boy wasted his money twice.

It would do a lot of people in this hobby good to read about that joke of a civil lawsuit.

I assume that person will not be wasting his money on those pretty sorry authenticaters again.

Was that a small claims case? The pleadings look like small claims but I don't know that jurisdictions forms.

Leon, two conflicting statements from you? I take it you now realize it doesn't take a ton to get banned from Heritage. A representative from Heritage has posted their nonsensical reasons on this board in the past why at least two other people have had their accounts suspended so why not come back on here and explain why mine has. Yes, it's a delicate area because Heritage would have to fabricate or make something up to justify their child-like behavior in suspending my account.

Heritage rep, come on here and explain. Be honest, be real, you have my permission to post any and all evidence to support your decision. Leon stop band-aiding their asses and let them speak for themselves. Let’s get to know their company a learn a little about their character. I’m open and willing to answer any questions they might have for me.

Yes, small claims and the amount was $4,500

Taking what I said out of context is weak Mark. In general I think it probably takes a lot to get banned.

Then after that statement, I saw why Chris said YOU are banned, and I didn't think that was too egregious. That doesn't change the way I feel overall.

Maybe you would like to share what that was, Leon. Let others be the judge.
Otherwise it's all baloney.

Personally, I think the question is "why should heritage allow Travis and Mark to bid" rather than why not. All you do is criticize and try and hurt their business(which doesnt work). You know what their process is(nothing to deceive people) yet you bring up and post pre-auction items over and over again. It is a free country(good or you)but they can also chose who they sell to. I would ban you and not give you the time of day either. I really do not see why they need to give any explanation based on your actions here. AT ALL.

It's all baloney Travis. I am sure Mark knows why, ask him. If not, he can email Chris and find out.
I have already been taken out of context and I am done with this thread.

he already asked heritage, they didnt answer him.

no need to quit, it didnt have anything to do with you from the beginning and heritage should not be sharing confidential information about their account holders with you or anyone.

That's fine but that is not the reason they are giving for the banning. they specifically said it was not regarding authentication. They won't tell us the real reason but they tell Leon. nice. Leon, can we cut the baloney and give the reason mark was banned already? He said he didnt know and he called them up and they wouldnt tell him.

the dumb thing is that banning only fanned the fire.

Don't call them pre-auction item as many of those auction items with the jsa auction loa designation were OPEN for internet bidding and had bids on them, and jsa hadnt looked at the items, but they had a jsa auction loa description to the item.

You fell for their line and couldn't get it right either, that is exactly why we continue to bring this up. so the truth can get out about these items. there were bids on these items with the premature auction loa tags.

why does the sports dept. do this? I don;t know. the fine art dept. has it too, a disclaimer that items may not be properly vetted, but i bet you any amount of money that if a picasso or renoir came in, it wouldnt go up unless they were sure it was legit. All it would take is a couple of ridiculous art pieces for the art dept. to look like fools too.

Those Ali signed photos are STILL up and heritage knows they are no good.