Change of Pace: 1962 Green Tints (scan heavy)
 

It's late and I was uploading my complete 1962 Topps Green Tint run to my bucket, so I figured I'd post them here for the heck of it. I can't recall ever seeing the entire thing posted together in one place. Hopefully, some of my variation loving brethren will enjoy this spectacle.

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps44455a18.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8d7e8b59.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...psd7b249af.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3fb15d1a.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...pse6b2dc3c.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2c423686.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps91679fa7.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3a26ffd0.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8ec67884.jpg
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7cd12ca5.jpg

I'm sure most of you already know this, but the beauty of the 'green tints' is the fact that each card's artwork is cropped differently than their regular counterpart. So, although the greenish (or dulled) hue is readily apparent in many/most of these cards, there remains a distinct disparity between the two versions of these cards apart from the color balance, making them true variations.

Notes:
1. Mack Jones (#186) is one of the toughest GT’s to recognize. His sky remains blue and the difference in cropping is so minimal, it’s almost imperceptible. If you look close enough, though, there does appear a slight greenish/yellowish aura around his hat that helps give it away.
2. Other than the 4 or 5 cards that have shockingly green backgrounds/fields, one of the easiest (funnest?) GT's to recognize instantly is the 'Greatest Sports Hero' card (#143). The girl's neon dress just jumps off the page at you!
3. Besides what's contained within the 'Babe Ruth Special' subset, there are only 2 GT HOFer's (Al Kaline and Ron Santo).
4. For my money, Gehrig And Ruth (#140) is the hardest GT to get at a decent price.
5. The Hal Reniff portrait version (#139) isn’t a true GT. It is really nothing more than a misnumbered card and it has neither the greenish hues nor any cropping differences when compared to its counterpart (#159). I certainly don’t believe it was printed at the same time as the other GT’s. However, it does remain a true and distinct variation, since it was later renumbered correctly to the aforementioned #159. Ergo, there is no GT numbered 159, as the ‘real’ Reniff GT shows him pitching (#139).
6. The checklist card (#192) is another curiosity. It, too, lacks the true indicators of a GT (hue or cropping), but remains a distinct variation as it differs from its common counterpart by having "Check List, 3" (comma) instead of "Check List 3" (no comma). I imagine (as was common with Topps checklists) it was printed at a different time than the GT cards.
7. A bit of stupidity that has always amused me. The 'Babe Hits 60' GT is often referred to as having the 'foul pole visible in the background.' Um, come on!! The pole they're referring to (behind The Babe to the far left in the scan) isn't the frickin' foul pole. It's part of the stadium structure and it's buried deep in the crowd, way out of play. Who in their right mind would ever call this a foul pole???????
8. There are two green Greens: Dallas (#111) and Pumpsie (#153).
9. I think I got everything correct here, but if I’m off on anything, LMK.
10. If anyone wants to know the secret to spotting the cropping differences between the two versions of a specific card, LMK.
11. Shameless plug: In looking at these scans, I noticed that many of these cards could use an upgrading, either based on general shape or the infamous Topps centering problems. If you have any of these guys in better shape than mine, I do have a whole bunch of GT doubles to trade (plus a ton of other stuff, too), so give me a shout.

I guess PSA has no clue what they're doing when it comes to green tints:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-Topps-1...item20dd1969c3

Look at the dirt in the home plate area around his feet. It's accurately 'dirt colored ' and thus the regular, non-GT version of card #139. Now look at my card (above). Green, green, green!! Man, did they get it wrong.

Greens
 

Great post Daren. I had a lot of fun putting this "set" together

I know a guy working on an article about why at least two versions exist for each Topps checklist from the 60s and early 70s, which would include your observation in note 6

I always found the DIck Hall card hard to tell if a Green Tint or not

Nice work Daren, I wouldn't have the patience. So many of the 62Ts have such different colors. I have the most trouble when there's a Cincy Red and a green ball field in the background. I'm guessing that the photographer was dealing with the sun and different film speed, although I am certainly no photographer. What's up with Wally Moon? I always assumed that the headshot was the green tint (both cards are #190)..

Now that is an impressive Unibrow!!!

Attachment 127061

I refer to Dick Hall as 'ole shirty.' His GT is hazy, unfocused and the sky is very dark and not the light blue of his regular card. But to quickly spot his GT, look no further than his shirt front. If you can't see the entire top portion of his undershirt that runs across the opening in his jersey, then you're looking at his GT.

Moon is definitely an anomaly. Each of the player pose variation cards--Lee Walls (#129), Billy Hoeft (#134), Bill Kunkel (#147), Carl Willey (#174), Eddie Yost (#176) and Wally Moon (#190)--have distinct GT attributes such as a green sky or a hazy, blurred look, except for Moon and Willey. The shots on their cards are definitely not examples of crisp photography or anything, but they are in no way 'overly greened.' However, the overall darkness of the shots coupled with the unbalanced redness of some of the skintones allows them entry into the GT canon.

Yes, you could land a 767 on them. Being a Cards fan you know that he played for them before becoming a Dodger. Won the '54 ROY over Aaron and Banks:eek:

Hey...cool stuff on the 62s and thanks for the info. I haven't spent a lot of time on that year and didn't even realize there were two pose card variations. Those are super cool, much like the 1969 Topps Clay Dalrymple. I don't collect variations unless I accidentally acquire them, but when I tackle the 62s I will want both poses to those variations. COOL.

I honestly don't understand the Green Tint cards and have no idea if I have any. Still very interesting...

Moon n Mack
 

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1388506281
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1388420237

Happy New Year
 

I love learning the history of baseball cards.

Attachment 127221

I guess I should've been more specific in my original post. When I'm talking about determining whether or not a card is a Green Tint, I am specifically talking about looking at just a single card. If you have both the GT and the regular card side by side, it is incredibly easy to see the differences in the two. But if you're looking at a single card and are trying to determine if it's a GT, it can be very tough at times. Some tips are definitely useful.

With Mack Jones, for instance, the giveaway is the appearance of that blue line in the background at left. If it's there, you have a GT.

Great stuff, I've always liked the green tints for some reason. I have a few, but haven't really worked at getting all of them. Maybe that's a good project for the new year.

Looks like a bunch of them are less obvious. I'll have to take another look at my 62s.:)

Steve B

Could someone post the Roger Craig GT and regular side by side?

Attachment 127305

The Roger Craig GT is all about the sky. If it looks normal and blue in any sort of fashion, it's the regular version. The GT features a dark, murkfest in the heavens.

But Roger's tell is that little, whitish piece of his uniform that appears on the right side of the card above the decorative paper curl. If it is visible there, you have the GT.

Can anyone tell me if this is a Green Tint or not? Are Green Tints worth more, and if so by about what %?

Thanks for any help on this one.

That Babe is the regular version. 100% sure.
I've decided to do the definitive guide to green tints, showing the tells of each card, so keep an eye out for that. The photoshop work alone is going to be a nightmare, but ultimately it will be a very helpful tool for GT collectors.

greenies
 

Might be helpful to check out this OBC article.
Go to www.oldbaseball.com
Click on directory and scroll down to find
•1962 GREEN TINT VARIATIONS, by Tom Housley

When I click on the directory, it just shows the member names and under Housley, I can't find the article you mentioned. I also did a search for "1962 GREEN TINT VARIATIONS" on the site and found nothing pertinent.

OK, did a web search and found it.
Both versions of each card are shown, so it's nice to see, but what I'm putting together gives you the green tint 'tells.' In other words, if you are looking at a lone example of a card, I'm going to give you specific things to look for to determine whether or not said card is a GT.

Very helpful Richard, thanks for posting.

Darren, go to "Library" then "All about the cards" there you will find "62 Green tint variations". Very helpful to see them side by side, even with that view some are tough. The White Sox team card and Babe's Farewll are two where I can't really see any cropping difference. Any help??

Richard
 

...is one of my heroes in the world of variants. We could all take lessons.

The '62 White Sox card-I think with the regular version, 2nd row on the far left, his elbow is quite a ways from the left edge. The tint (IMO) is the one where his elbow almost touches the border. This one is also a little out of focus on my card. Ruth's Farewell has slight cropping differences, and the color is washed out, some more than others.

Bill,
These 2 pages from my treatise on GT's should explain everything for you. The resolution isn't too great, unfortunately, but you should still be able to see what I'm pointing out without too much difficulty.

Just look towards the red circles...

Attachment 127948

Attachment 127949

So what is the explanation as to why there are cropping differences between the regular and green tint cards?

1962
 

For one thing there were 2 separate printers used...different companies

Grant - Darren, thank you. Darren, nice work.

Al I had heard that there was a second printing plate made for a second printer to help with larger than ususal production needs in the 2nd series. After the second series this was stopped - perhaps due to the color being botched by the second printer. Have you heard/read similar?

Still seems odd that the cropping would be different, despite the second print plate being made. Doesnt seem like it woudl be too difficult to match them perfectly given techniques in the '60's.

Due to the second printer being discussed here before, I was aware of a second printer helping to print this series...but what I did not understand is why this other printer used a separate (unique due to the cropping differences) printing plate from what Topps used?

A second printing plate being made in order for Topps to sub out some of the printing to a second printer in order for Topps to fulfill the stronger than expected demand does make sense. However, in my experience with the 62s there appears to be no shortage of 1st series cards (unlike some previous issues) when compared to the second series of 62s. So, if Topps was able to handle the printing expectations for the 1st series of 62s, why were they not able to handle the second series also?

Also, based on my collecting of this set over the past 10+ years, my experience has been that for every 5-6 regular issue 2nd ser cards there is one GT. Is it known more precisely what the actual print rates are for the regular cards as compared to the GT cards?

1962
 

I think it was Dave Hornish who was the source of what I heard about a second printer. I 'll ask him to visit this thread. Great thread Daren

Braves Team Card?
 

Darren,
Do you have the specifics on the differences in the 1962 Braves team card for the GT? My eyes have crossed trying to find differences without any luck (although maybe I just have not found a GT yet to note the differences).
Dave

Braves
 

Guy on the left, front row, in a black suit.....one version is cropped and cuts off his right shoulder......other version you see more of his shoulder, almost all of it.

Braves
 

Daren---can you put up scans from post 25 again

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1389117360

Wondering if the cad on the right is a green tint.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...ps81975505.jpg

Hey Brent, your Kaline is the regular version.
Here are the assessments of both cards brought up today...

Attachment 128193

Thanks. Mine is a GT. Yay! Can I retire on the sales proceeds?

Scans Gone
 

Daren---do you know why your scans keep dropping out ? I'm too slow

edited---never mind---just my ineptitude

Great thread. Thank you Darren.

Two r's , Al, two r's. "Darren."

Great thread guys! I've owned my GT Dodgers for a while now but until I read this thread I was unaware that there were cropping "tells" as well, very interesting. I immediately went back and looked at all my GT Dodgers and easily found the areas to look for in the future.

Going through them made me wonder, are there any non-green tint cards in the 62 Topps set with cropping variations? There's gotta be, right? If so, any Dodgers?

Croppings
 

There are cropping and other differences in every 1960s Topps checklist, including 62

Just updated the original scans after upgrading about 15 or so of my cards. If anyone else is looking to trade any GT's (or other cards), give me a shout.

Bump. I posted a thread in the B/S/T section looking for people trading green tints. I showed scans of a slew of GT's I have to trade, so check it out.

'62 Green tints
 

Hi everyone,
The subject line caught my eye - and here is the direct link to the my photos of the '62 green tints:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/obctom/...7602774575697/

I scanned all of the greenies side-by-side next to their non-greenie brothers one day when I was recovering from foot surgery & was confined to a chair.
Enjoy!

Tom Housley

My side-by-side photos of the greenies
 

Here is the direct link to the my photos of the '62 green tints:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/obctom/...7602774575697/

In the side-by-side photos, the green tint is always on the left & the corrected, non-green version is one the right.

Click around on the options; you should be able to see the original-sized photos rather than the smaller thumbnails.

Enjoy!


Tom Housley
OBC member

That's really cool. I had more than I thought.

Steve B

Nice work Tom, I've used that quite a bit while working on my GT's.

Glad to help. I know those things are tricky - I ended up squinting at eBay listings a LOT trying to determine cropping differences etc - so I thought I'd make a small contribution to help my fellow variation-afflicted collectors. :)

greens
 

Thanks for chipping in, Tom

I received a message asking for the tells of a few cards, so here they are:

Attachment 130785
Attachment 130786

I've really been helped by this thread and appreciate everyone's tips and scans. I am wondering if anyone has any tips on Stuart, Sturdivant and Covington? Those are the three I am struggling with in picking out the GTs. Thanks.

Here ya go…
Attachment 156924

Thanks Darren. Could I ask you about two more and then I promise, that's it:
Post and Skinner. It looks like the GT Post has orangish sleeves compared to the red sleeves on the regular card (like Demeter's orange cap as opposed to his red cap in the regular card) but is there any other tip?
Also I know the Reniff GT is the pitching pose but someone mentioned to me that there could be a GT of the portrait pose. Is that correct?
Thanks again for the help. I'm busy looking for the slightly bigger PA speaker in the centerfield wall on the Dallas Green card, but otherwise I know what to look for and it's really helped because I have run across some dealers who advertise GT cards when they are not...
tbob

Who the heck is Don??

I'll post the pair of cards you asked about in a moment. I have never seen a Reniff portrait GT and am positively certain it does not exist. The green tints with card #139 are the pitching pose you mentioned as well as the Babe Ruth card. It seems to me card #159 wasn't printed at all during the GT phase (only the misnumbered #139) and was only found to be misnumbered 'later' on.

Skinner…
Attachment 156941

Post…
Attachment 156942

Thanks Darren.

Darren.....Do you have all these posted somewhere out there? Or have a pamphlet for sale or something.....would love to have all of them in a single place to look at. Thanks.....

One of the toughest for me to find was the green tint variation of Fred Hutchinson, I just can't seem to find the "tell" which indicates it is the green tint. Any ideas?

Hey Tom. I just have my proprietary version here on my computer.

Hutchinson greenie
 

On the Hutchinson, the easiest tell is in the cropping. On the "non-green" version, a portion of his right red sleeve can be seen. In the green version, only the smallest sliver can be seen.

Check out all of the greenies side-by-side with their non-greenie brothers on my Flickr page:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/obctom...7602774575697/

Tom

All greenies side-by-side their non-greenie counterpart
 

I love the scans with the "tell" - nicely done!

I have a Flickr page with the regular & green tint versions side-by-side for comparison. Everyone is welcome to view it, & some of my fellow OBC members have even printed it off & taken it to shows to help with the hunt:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/obctom...7602774575697/

For the harder ones, look closely at the cropping differences. They are sometimes very subtle, but they are there.

Tom

Thank you Tom for the link to your page....as with Darren's work, your page is also most helpful. For me, several of the Ruth Special cards are the toughest to determine if they are GT or not and I find I almost always have to use the cropping differences as the determining factor. Your link makes it easy to do so.

Thank you Tom, your and Darren's answers have been extremely helpful as I wrap up the 1962 GT subset.
tbob

I forgot the thread we had going a long while back, but it featured a ton of cards that PSA, et al, had misidentified as green tints. Well, I ran into this blatantly wrong one tonight on ebay (and I don't even bother telling the sellers they have a mislabeled card anymore, because the sellers always ignore the facts and just leave the cards up)…
Attachment 160517
Yowza!!! Not even close. I think the folks at PSA could use my comprehensive GT guide. If anyone has any connections over there, PLMK.

Scd
 

In the current issue of SCD ( October 3), in his "Leading Off" column, Tim Bartsch, the SCD editor and gateway to getting variations listed in their catalog, writes generically about variations and variation collectors. He mentions that in an upcoming issue they will be looking "in depth" at the 62 green tints.

Darren---you may already be plugged into that effort. If not you may want to get in touch with him...tom.bartsch@fwmedia.com

Hey Al.
I contacted Tom a few weeks ago and we exchanged an e-mail or two regarding my comprehensive 1962 Green Tints Guide, but I haven't heard anything in a while, so it doesn't look like I'll be involved in that issue. Too bad.

1962
 

If this turns out to be another generic article about the green tints that would be a shame. Did you send him a copy of your guide ? Or maybe a sample

I am going through my 1962 Topps cards and am trying to determine if I have any green tints. This thread has been an amazing resource, as has the flickr account with all of them side by side. Darren, I would pay for a copy of the guide you developed if you ever decide to distribute it.

Can anyone explain the difference on Chuck Hiller 188? Checking the flickr account, it looks like the green tint as a less pronounced green field in the background, and that the pole is almost red in color as opposed to the regular version with a dark green field and a black colored pole. Is this accurate?

Also, what are the tells for Bob Nieman 182? I could not discern any from the flickr page. How about the Hot Corner Guardians 163? Bob Duliba 149? Alou 133? Woodling 125? Murphy 119? I am sorry for all of the questions but looking at the cards side by side on the flickr page I could not tell the difference between these six.

Thanks in advance,
Alan

The last ones I could not determine are 116 Herb Score, 161 Frank Baumann, and 180 Bob Allison. Can anyone please provide the green tint tells for these cards? Again, thank you so much to both Darren and Tom for all of their hard work on identifying these and helping fellow collectors.

Alan

allison
 

On Bobby Allison, look at the bottom button on the uniform. Full button is GT

1962 topps 163
 

I see a bit more of the red label on Boyer's glove on the regular tint version.

When you have both versions next to each other (IE on the flickr site or in hand), scan the edges of the card's image closest to the outside border. The differences are easy to see due to the variations in the image's cropping. For example, on the Hiller card, along the top border, you can see that the flag in the background is cropped differently....there is more flag showing on the GT version. On card 182 the on deck circle is larger on the Gt version, on 163 you can see less of Boyer's glove on the GT. You can do this with each card in question.

188 Hiller
 

I see a difference in the cloud at the upper left of the card. The cloud is fuller in the GT version.

Thanks guys! I can cross off 180, 182, and 188 from my mystery list as your comments helped me determine that mine are not green tints.

I still cannot seem to see differences in the hot corner card (163). Can anyone please post clearer pictures on that one? I do not see any difference as to how much the glove shows but I also am not very good at picking out such distinctions. I also still cannot see any differences on 161 (Baumann), 149 (Duliba), 133 (Alou), 125 (Woodling), 119 (Murphy), and 116 (Score). On the Score, is it the orange flare thing on the left side of the card? I can post my examples if that is easier.

I also really appreciate all of the help. Please know that I have spent a large amount of time studying the flickr website and this thread as I never want to waste board members' time when I can do the research on my own. I just do not see any differences on 116, 119, 125, 133, 149, and 161. Thanks again for any help you can provide.

Alan

1962 topps 161
 

Look at the top right corner . GT has black object

As mentioned with the 163 card, due to the cropping differences, the regular version (bottom card) has more of Boyer's glove showing.....see the two cards with the red circles around the spot in question.

Thanks again guys! The red circle does help, and I believe mine is a green tint. I also appreciate the help on the Baumann as I now see what you are referring to. I have two and now I know they are the regular versions. Just down to trying to figure out 149, 133, 125, 119, and 116. Thank you again!

Alan