PWCC Bid History
 

This has probably been beaten to death and I realize it could be a consignor and not the seller, but when I see these kind of stats, I will not bid again on this item.

I win stuff once in awhile from Brent but I check the bid history always first and I do not do that with all sellers. I missed out on a couple rare Ruth cards a few months ago from him because of this sadly.

Bidder: 0***d( 413Feedback score is 100 to 499)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description:
Item Title:
1909 E92 Croft's Cocoa Johnny Siegle PSA 1(mc) PR (PWCC)
Bids on this item: 16

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 63
Items bid on: 4
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 95%

Bids
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards 23 Seller 1 6d 2h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards 21 Seller 1 6d 6h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards 16 Seller 1 6d 5h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball Cards 3 Seller 2 <1h

If the guy has no retractions it doesn't really bother me too much. Some people bid exclusively on Brent's stuff on ebay because of his reputation and the fear of the unknown in buying from another source.

i agree, there is too much over thinking on this.

there are many ebay sellers out there, when i have 'won' an item all of the sudden the seller lost the item or it got lost in the mail. I have also been contacted after auctions with the seller admitting he shilled the auction or the high bidder didnt pay (in like 5 mins) and offered the card to me direct

As long as consignors are eating the sellers fee with pwcc then who cares if they win the card. Plus like its been said before, some people rather just bid with pwcc and they also get the benefit of better postage because they are buying several cards from many genres..

If you are worried about high bidders with no bid retractions on pwcc auctions then i would worry about every single ebay auction and get off ebay...

Some of the stuff I need is not that common and shows up on PWCC more than other sites. Wouldn't be surprised if my bidding looks like that too.

No issue with the number of bids....
 

I have no issue with how many bids someone places. I have a huge issue with the number of retractions a bidder does. Anymore than about 2 and they shouldn't be permitted to bid, imo.

He bid on 4 items in 30 days. I fail to see the issue here. He's just hitting the bid again button instead of inputting a higher bid manually. :confused:

60 of his 63 bids with one seller?

I guess it is just me

thanks for all of the input guys

I think you are correct, it's a little much.

Do you guys pay attention to the dearth of decent pre-war stuff on Ebay via auctions though? Apart from PWCC, and maybe Probstein, there isn't always a whole lot of good items to bid on at any one point in time. The concentration of bids may be more linked to that than anything else.

BobC

correct as well regarding prewar-. Lots of sellers have real high BINS but are willing to risk a 99 cent auction with PWCC instead of their own

also for all of those sleuths out there looking at the percentage of biddings...it really not that hard to bid .99 on many auctions with other sellers knowing you will get outbid to lower the percentage of bids with pwcc....

any person that is trying to cheat someone isnt going to have a hard time to mask the bidding percentage if they wanted too....really not worth over thinking the percentage of bids with pwcc......the bid retractions arent easy to mask though with the same id..

Do not under estimate the average person's stupidity. I recall a time when a guy running a printing press stole his bosses check and tried to cash it at the bank where he does business. Needless to say the guys fingerprints were clearly printed on it from the blank ink he was printing that day as if it were done by the local police department, besides the fact that the teller knew the business owner well.

Ebay reaches a ton of people. I'm sure there are collectors out there who have better things to do with their time than to be consistently searching ebay and staying up all night to wait for major AH auctions to close.

PWCC offers monthly auctions. You know when each item will close. They have everything from 19th century through pre-war through modern for all sports. They will combine your invoice throughout the length of the 2+ week auction and allow you to pay at the very end. They have very reasonable combined shipping costs, package everything up professionally, and ship out quickly with tracking number. For those reasons, I can totally understand if there are ebay users who have most of their bidding with PWCC.

Yes, I agree there is a serious issue with retractions, shilling, etc. and the recent discussion/posts about PWCC texting a bidder. The texting thing is obviously their fault. But some of that other stuff is ebay's fault.

However, for me personally, I just don't care. And I know that rubs some people the wrong way. My opinion is that if you choose to buy stuff on ebay, you're going to experience those issues as they allow it to happen. For that reason, I never check the bidding history for anything on ebay. When I see something I want, I move it to my watch list, and 5 seconds before the auction ends I enter in my max bid and that's it. If I win it awesome, if not oh well. I prefer to live a stress free life when it comes to collecting.

All that being said, I do understand Dan's concern along with everybody else who pays attention to bidding history and stuff like that and can see why they choose not to do business with certain sellers.

My bidding history on ebay is certainly the exact opposite of this bidder's, but some people want to eat the same food, go to the same vacation spot, sit in the same seat at the theater, etc. It definitely could be an indication of something funky going on, but it is just as likely to be a bidder who feels more secure in the familiar.

Brian

Bid History
 

For me, as a stand-alone I don't have much of an issue in bids with one seller - especially PWCC. I know of a few who seem to ratchet-up and prioritize his auctions, much like someone may do with their favorite AH's.

I do, however (and as noted previously) have an issue with the bid retractions - that to me is the big red-flag stay away. I can see a mistake once, but when you run across someone who has multiple - I can't quite grasp that. Especially if you couple that with the bid activity with one seller, low feedback, private auctions (names/details withheld) and or the minimum increment nibble-up bidding to see what high bid is.

Here's a good example link below ...

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2047675.l2565

"l***a(106) - no retractions, but clearly trying to find a ceiling. And the 3 just under-bidders all have several bid retractions - - one with 9! That should be justification for suspension, but eBay won't do that bcse they're active and a source to their revenue stream (just as Battlefield is).

To me, this auction has enough issues/red-flags to drop-out.:mad:

I am with you
 

Dan, I am with you. This outfit has earned it's reputation. Any hint of nonsense and I won't bid based upon their track record. The 63 bids is just another data point for me.

I agree Ed. When you're bidding $XXX.99, you aren't trying to win the item. Especially when there is a string of bids at $169.99, $174,99, $179.99 - all the way up to $199.99.

Cheers,
patrick

I disagree with that assertion. I have bid in small increments trying to see what the high bidder is without trying to outbid the high bidder (as they would get a 'youve been outbid alert')

Only begs the question,

"does Brent own the card?"

++this. I have no idea what my percentage is with PWCC, probably pretty high. Also have no idea what my ebay "score" is either. I bid what I can afford, if I win, then I pay; that simple. The whole percentage with certain buyers means nothing to me.

It's about retractions. Those guys can go to hell.

I don't understand the logic behind this. Aren't you trying to win the card? If you bid the high bidder up to his max, but don't have any intention to overtake it, isn't this shilling?

Thanks, I was just about to ask the same thing.

Not sure why anyone would bid on ebay before the last possible second.

Especially if the seller is a big name who won't end the auction early.

There is a reason for the seller's motto of "bid early and often!". It drives up the price.

+1

I believe he is trying to figure out, as close as he can without the current high bidder being notified, what the current winning could be. That way, he can put in a snipe at the end and win it for the minimum amount he can. Even though I feel that practice is ridiculous, ebay allows it to happen so what can you do. That is why I pay no attention to the bid history of an item and just place my max bid during the last few seconds. I know people are playing these silly bidding games (because ebay allows it) and I choose not to let it drive me nuts by inspecting the bid history.

I think sometimes people like to dream that they will get that $7,000 Ruth card for $1550 because the whole world will fall asleep and it will somehow fall through the cracks. Other people maybe just want to feel like they are in the game for a 52 Mantle realizing full well they won't get the card for $20,000. Can be a lot of innocuous reasons. Maybe they are just bored and bidding is something to do and they don't expect to win. Not all nefarious.

Gents this is an excellent discussion! I truly want to thank all of you for participating.

I just looked at 2 Dockman cards I needed from Probstein ending tonight, high bidder with rating of 52 bids 92% with probstein.... Once again I am not bidding.

I need the Shean and the Bridwell for my set.

I will sit these 2 out tonight.

Dan

And of course I could be way off base with all of this as some of you have suggested but it is just my instinct kicking in from 48 years of collecting.

Once again I would like to thank everyone who has participated here.

Dan

+1; You're asking to be shilled with early bids. IMO, not sniping is also asking to be shilled. My purchases at AH's is almost nil, and I've purchased 1000's of cards. It's just my personal preference, but if I can't snipe or see the bidders, I stay away. Makes collecting so much more enjoyable.

probstein is dead to me!

+1 For many years. He was a complete A-hole to me once. So I quit bidding on his stuff way before I learned about all the shady stuff in his auctions.

+3

No i do have an intention of overtaking it but dont want to alert him that he was outbid......works well on low value cards like 10 dollars....i wait till the end to put in my bid and assuming the high bidder doesnt have a snipe, maybe i win the card easier versus alerting the bidder earlier that he was outbid. The 1 dollar can make a difference... If doing my early bids i can see he is already well beyond what i would be willing to bid i dont bother checking out the end of that auction. How many times in other AHs do you bid again when you get an email that you were 'outbid' but if you didnt get that email you dont bid.

When bid increments are $1.00 for example and you can see you are outbid by .02 cents, you know your next bid will be top bidder. Id rather not make that top bid until at the end of the auction instead of alerting the high bidder a few days ahead of time. Since its not a big card, he may not be checking often. I have lost cards by 12 cents before that if i was of bid earlier i would of been a dollar more so it goes both ways.

Obviously this all assumes there are no other bids until end of the auction. The point is there are more things going on than shilling when you see many small bids..

+1 there.

Regards,

Larry

Huh? If I want to win a card, I figure out what I want to pay, put in a snipe, and forget about it. If I really want it and it looks like it's going higher by the end of the auction, I might adjust the snipe. Bidding it up as I go along to try to figure out where the high bidder is? Makes no sense. For one thing, it well could backfire by making the high bidder, and other bidders, realize someone else is hot and heavy for the card and may make them go higher. You're overthinking this.

I'm right in line with that bidding strategy.

Hi, Pete.

Best,

Larry

I don't understand this comment. There are numerous reputable sellers on ebay who provide the same level of customer service as PWCC.

I didn't say I ascribe to the theory, but I know it exists. Frankly I think I provide ebay services equal or superior to every seller in the business as evidenced by my perfect feedback AND perfect star rating.

It is laughable that some of you are saying this is just regular old bidding and not shilling. Especially when it was pointed out that some auctions are making bids a penny under a $5 or $25 number. BRENT CLAIMED HE HAD PULL WITH EBAY ABOUT CHANGING THEIR MODEL TO ROOT OUT FRAUD. HOWEVER, IF EBAY WILL NOT GO BACK TO SHOWING FULL USERNAMES OF EVERY BID, ADDING REGISTERED ZIP CODES OF THE ACCOUNTS, THEY CONTINUE TO PROVE THEY DON'T CARE. I don't know if I ever made bids on PWCC or Probstein auctions, but I probably never will in the future. I prefer buying from smaller sellers at discount prices.

So simple for me... I know what I am looking for.
If I find it I will bid. If it's bid up to a crazy price I'll go back to Facebook.
Otherwise PWCC has stuff I never see. Otherwise ill never find it.
Like the Mays 9.... joke

I dont understand why people think this is so rare. I bid almost exclusively with Brent. Mostly it's just laziness, because I am looking for specific years, and I know EXACTLY when those items are going to go up with pwcc. I don't have time to search eBay all the time for auctions, so I wait for Brent to mass drop a bunch, pick out what I'm interested in, and set up my snipes. I'm sure I'm at 90%+ bidding with pwcc.

Lmao
 

Batpig..your statement doesn't make any sense to me. It's like someone put you up to saying this to make PWCC look better. Laziness cause you don't wanna search for items from other buyers, yet you wait just for Brent and only Brent to post. It's all a game and anyone who denies it is apprently incahoots with PWCC.

i dont use snipe software, my strategy may be not what you do but to each their own. If it backfires it backfires. You are the one overthinking this

Didn't they make a big deal a few months ago about new policies they were going to implement and prohibiting string bidding was one of them?

What is Facebook?

It's an incredible waste of time.

My favorite Facebook story concerns a buddy of mine who died 3 year ago. Last year on his birthday he got a string of fond birthdays wishes from his Facebook "Friends" who were telling him to go out, enjoy the day, have a beer, etc., all oblivious to the fact that he checked out a couple of years prior. Yep, those Facebook friends are the best kind of real friends.

As time goes on there will be millions and millions of literally dead profiles.

There are already millions. People create them for people that die as a memory to them.

No offense, but this makes no sense to me. That is like me saying "I will only buy my gas from Shell gas stations". I may be about to run out of gas, but I'm gonna zip by them to find me a Shell station. There are other sellers on Ebay that has cards. PWCC & Probstein don't have the monopoly on them.

If I am looking for a higher end rare card, the chances are I will find it with PWCC or Probstein. That's the (disappointing) reality. Maybe add yepbg and 707. There are a lot of cool sellers out there with neat stuff, but on eBay the high end stuff tends to end up largely in a few places. As but one example off the top of my head, a Goudey Ruth in a grade above 4. Good luck finding that on ebay and not with one of these sellers. If there are 30 such Ruths sold a year on ebay PWCC probably sells 25 of them.

And the oddball sellers who have one for sale, the winning bidders turn around and consign the card with PWCC as soon as it gets in their hands. To me, that is a problem, and helps intensify the PWCC/Probstein phenomenon. No one wants to sell the cards themselves, because they feel like they are leaving money on the table. If some of these bidders would supports sellers other than those two guys.......I guess that's a pipe dream though.

This is a solid point....

Why doesn't it make sense? I am typically looking for a specific year and in high grade, and I don't have time to search for those items every night. I know that on a specific date, PWCC will put a large number of those items up so I can get the biggest bang for my time rather than constantly slogging through misleading listings and other wastes of time. To be clear, this is only how I do it on eBay. When the other large auction houses put things up outside of eBay, I go through those too. It's just my eBay bidding that is heavily slanted to PWCC. Just because YOU don't personally agree with how I spend my search time on eBay, doesn't mean there aren't a lot of other people like me.

I just set up automatic searches and let ebay do the work.

Ditto....in all honestly, I cringe a little bit when I see them sell something I want. I doubt I'm getting a deal is the major reason. It's never customer service issues.

Remember the old days where you could search another eBay bidders current bids. All you had to do was follow other bidders and let them do all the research.

What I miss is not being able to track certain (alleged) card doctors' purchases. All those 5s and 6s that would magically reappear as 8s and 9s.

My answer to that is very simple . . . if you have a nice card to sell, give it to a great auction house that will market it and take no seller's commission. There are a bunch of great auction houses that get kudos here all the time. LOTG. Brokleman. Others. Don't sell on eBay. Negotiate with someone who actually does some work on your behalf.

.. or all those 2's and 3 MK's that magically reappear as PHENOMINAL!, BREATH-TAKING! and STUPENDOUS! photoshopped raw cards on Battlefield0516's auctions

A pattern
 

Seems like a pattern .

Or even more devious. Those SGC "A" cards that appear near mint!! That is like hitting the jackpot for battlefield!!

She just sold that trimmed Cobb Green for $4,000. :eek:

She only got $3,000 for it back in January. The market for trimmed Cobb greens is exploding. ;)

.

Here's a few rules I live by happily in my collecting life. To each their own:

SNIPING. If you are buying on ebay without using sniping software you are only helping the seller make more money. Raising the bids before the end only drives interest in the auction and causes eventual snipers to place higher snipes. If sniping was making ebay money they would offer the service.


SHILLING. If you are bidding in a blind auction (like ebay) you should assume you are always being "shilled." And real "shillers" in ebay don't bid things up in increments. They place "shill" snipes. Why would you shill in increments when you will be noticed by potential buyers (and potentially outed on Net54)?

Before you bid you should determine how much you want to pay for the item and then "set it and forget it." Shilling is an occupational hobby hazard. If you want to play in the auction house setting you'll be much happier paying what you want for an item without worrying that you could've had it cheaper but for some phantom shiller.

Just my 2 cents...

Now that the bidding is over, I will admit to being the person who put in all those bids on the Siegle. I was not the consigner of this card, but wanted if for my personal collection. I have also never retracted a bid. For those that do not know me, I'm a bit obsessed with the e92 set (5 red crofts, 40 different nadja, a few blues, 2 menageries, a prizefighter, a blank back, etc). So figured this card would fit nicely into my collection. As for the other cards I was bidding on, the e93 Cobb is the last card I need for my set. The 3rd card ends tonight so I don't want to divulge it until after it ends, but would be happy to do so at that point.

So why did I bid like this? Quite frankly, to make people hesitant to bid given PWCC reputation for shill bidding. Had this been any other seller, I likely would have just put in a snipe and waited for the outcome. Does bidding like this work? Hard to say for sure, as it only takes one other person putting in a snipe to be outbid. I had a price in mind that I was willing to pay up to and set my final snipe to that amount. In this case, whoever won the card obviously still wanted it just a little more than me. However, as a few people such as Dan have mentioned, it put them off from the auction, so it did have at least some influence on some potential bidders.

DJ

I have a feeling more and more are playing some pseudo-games with PWCC and Probstein auctions hoping to scare others away. If I wanted something I would just bid what I want, as a snipe, and not think about it. Alas, no great looking T205 Cobby so I am safe....

"Mic drop"

It looks like the seigle might have been to the right of Crawford.
Attachment 265720Attachment 265723

Pat, I believe you are right, at least for cocoa backs. I'll see if I have a chance to start a new thread later tonight with several other miscuts.

DJ

+1 The aggravated buyers on this forum could learn a lot from this. Find a value that you think is fair, set a snipe, then walk away.

Like others have said, assume you will be shilled on any platform, more so if you can't see the bidders and snipping is not allowed.

There are also people like me who bid differently every time motivated solely by my desire to land the card. Depending on the card, I DO like to find out where the topside is and then double it for my last second bid. So I'll one click up until I find the original bidders top. I'll click it up and then if I think the guys initial top bid is too high for me, I'll give up having only cost that guy more money especially if I was the only other serious bidder. In the end, that guy may pay much closer to his top side bid because of me.

Warm glass of milk and I still sleep fine. I also have never retracted a bid. Ever. I pay literally instantly and have been actually scolded for paying before invoice.

Now, I'll ask since I never really considered it - am I a jerk ebay bidder?

I really don't mean to be. I don't work for the auction house and am small time, nickel and dime.

I often will make a placeholder bid, usually well into the auction (sometimes the final day). This is for far less than what I would be willing to pay but enough to win at the time, so that in the unlikely event my snipe does not fire off, I still have a shot--I actually have failed to do this and watched an item or two go for less than what I would have initially bid. Two bids. Max. I also watch those items so that I receive outbid and "about to close" e-mails, just for reminder purposes.

Just clicked on over a dozen PWCC auctions bid history ending tonight....

84%, 90% a few 100%

Sorry.... I ain't buying it!!!!

Just complete BULLSHIT to me!

I won't bid on any with stats like that, I guarantee there is shilling involved.

Painthistorian runs tons of auctions of coll stuff and doesn't have those numbers.

I just ain't buying it!!!!

How can one tell on eBay how many bids a bidder has retracted (in general and in a specific auction) and how many times a bidder has bid? When I hit bid history, all I see is a string of single bids with f**s (1896) etc. Thanks!

Click on the hyperlink for each of those bidder IDs.

Hey Dan
Tell us how ya really feel? :)

LL

Just as a follow up, I won the third card I was bidding on for a bit less than my max bid. The card was the W554 Gehrig.

DJ

I was high bidder on the exhibit lot with yellowhorse and Ruth etc... from 5 seconds to 4 seconds. Then I wasn't high bidder anymore. :D

Mark

Possibly the most egregious shameless plug I've ever seen on net54.

you must not read the board much :D