New guy here...1952 Mantle...is it legit?
I have what i believe may be a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle 311B card.... A little history...I picked up this card at a old garage sale in a very small town. The guy running the garage sale had many old items such as authentic WWII officer uniforms, watches, tools, etc....I found this card in with the watches and asked him what he wanted for it....his reply was...hmm Mickey Mantle, i think he was pretty good right...idk....like $25? This guy had no other cards at all...just this one and def did not know what he may have had.
Here is the link to the pics of the card. https://www.flickr.com/photos/148960835@N08/? Initially i was very skeptical whether this is the real deal or not...but it passes every single specific attribute of being a real card.... The following is from: http://bbcemporium.com/1952-topps-mi...terfeit-guide/ -There is a missing blue pixel -There is only a partial black border around the Yankee logo -The top border overlaps the two side borders -The border around Mantle’s name is not as smooth an even as the Type I card -The stitches on the baseball are pointed to the right -The “t” in Right and the “s” in DiMaggio’s are nearly perfectly aligned. It passes all of these...which i've looked through hundreds of counterfeits and they always fail on one of the above. I really need some expert opinion here....No disrespect but if you were unaware of the above list please don't comment. I only want expert opinions as I need to make a decision on whether to send this to PSA or not. Please give me specifics on why you came to your decision. Thanks The New Guy:):):):) |
Do you own any other 1952 Topps? Can you compare the card stock to them? Buy some commons for $10 each and feel the front, back, sides, and smell them. Then see if the Mantle sets off any flags for you.
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If you purchased that card for only $25 bucks and it passed your inspection, based on what you mentioned, I see no reason why you wouldn't send it in to get graded.
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Swarmee has a great idea. It would be worth it to buy one/some cheaply from E-Bay or someone on here (if available?) then compare. Good luck whatever you do. |
No red flags when looking at it here, but I'm far from an expert and would need to see it in hand to judge. How does it smell? Old?
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Now I could be wrong but it looks as real as a $3 bill to me. For the condition the front is way too white. The entire back looks like it was printed with an inkjet printer. Could just be bad fuzzy pictures, I don't know.
I do not know if PSA charges if a card is rejected but I really hope they do. Otherwise why not send in as many fake cards as possible with no recourse. |
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If it is a fake, I can't imagine it being anymore than $20 or less? |
I find it hard to believe its real...but yeah if you send to psa they will charge you less than 100 bucks if its fake.....you can give them a call and ask as well
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Is the front surface scuffed or only discolored? I would think 3-4 but with elite front centering. It looks authentic to me.
PSA will charge you the $800 if you value it at $20,000 raw whether it is fake or real. That's the authentication that you're paying them for, and they're paying the insurance that they're not wrong and in case of damage during the grading process. I've got some 1952s I will send you and you can check them out. It's hard to fake glossiness, card stock, paper grain, and printing techniques. |
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I don't have any opinion about whether it's real or not
____________________________________________ Didn't think of that. Is general card-authentication procedure kosher to post? |
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More than a few come on here looking for info on cards but until they have proven to be legit members/collectors, most don't like to divulge info to them, which would only help them become better forgers/scammers. This guy, although it is only my opinion, struck me as someone like that. 4 posts then never heard from again? :confused: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=243499 |
I have both versions of the Mantle. One was graded when I bought it, the other not. Before finalizing the purchase of the ungraded card I sent it to Levi Bleam at 707 Spotscards. I would actually trust his opinion over any grader at any service when it comes to 52 cards in general and Mantle specifically. Plus, despite his reputation for high prices, he is completely trustworthy and honest. He did not charge me for his review ( it turned out to be good), but I have been a long time customer. You can contact him through his 707 web site. Not sure if he would do a review for someone he did not have experience with.
Don"t know where you live but he does attend some shows. His schedule may be on his web site |
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Swarmee, (John) is likely right as he has a ton of experience.
This may help also but like Ben just stated, give them a call. https://www.psacard.com/fees/preview |
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It would def rank as my #1 card story and possibly any other story of my life...other than my son being born. |
He means I'm probably right about PSA taking $800 no matter what. ;-)
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I believe the card is fake. It overall doesn't look " right " to me. Also, the bat has the white area above his hands- seen on sophisticated fakes.
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Nothing is really screaming at me that this is a fake other than the near perfect centering and the yellow around the Yankees logo looks a bit brighter compared to a known legit copy (this could be from the photo, though). Another odd factor is the unnatural perfectly rounded bottom corners. I own cards with rounded corners, so it's not uncommon, but the color and wear on the white borders doesn't really match the wear of the corners, as if the card may have been artificially aged. Lack of creasing is also strange. I'm 50/50 on it.
Thanks for providing such good pictures to study, and please, even if the card is determined to be a fake, come back here to let us all know the result. That would be a nice score if it turns out to be real, so good luck! BTW, I will mention that with the rounded corners, the surface scuffing, and the stain in the upper right corner area, you would be likely to get a 2 or maybe a 3 from PSA, although most collectors would pay a big premium for the centering, so it's still a $20K card, give or take, if it's real. Also, if you submit to PSA you can choose to have it graded with no qualifiers, as it would likely get an ST qualifier for the stain. Keep in mind this would also knock the grade down a grade or two. For example, if you go with qualifiers, the card may grade as a 3 ST. If you request no qualifiers, PSA may give it a straight 2 or even a 1. Most collectors would prefer a card without a qualifier, and if you do more research with the search function you can probably find some prior discussions on qualifiers to help with your decision. |
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Not an expert but if we're taking a poll, I'd vote fake. Front centering is almost too good. The yellow of the box doesn't seem to match the yellow of the bat. There seems to be more of an orange-ish tint to the box. Also considering the scruffiness of the surface, I'd expect more wear elsewhere, e.g. the corners.
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I spoke to PSA and they told me they would only charge me the minimum if it was not a legit 52 Mantle. They would call me and let me know it was real and give me the opportunity to pay the fee. They told me to just mark it as a 52 Mantle but put the declared value at like $5 when sending it in.
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Wow, that's interesting. Glad to hear they're making it easier to validate cards that are possibly authentic.
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Looks real to me.
I always look to see if you can see the dot pattern on it. That is unique to it being printed by four color process. This has it. Generally, if this was printed another way or copied from another card, it would not have the same clarity of pattern or the pattern would be more random. |
I looked at your pics and compared it to mine. Well- I am on the side of 'not good'.
I agree the orangy color is a major throw-off for starts. next is the skin tone/color is way glossy or vibrant in some areas. Then I noticed a slight difference in the bibb rim at/under, looks darker? Then, I see the bat is whitened or scuffed all up, looks odd? I also thought some spots were a bit too white as well. Kinda resembles those late East Coast reprints??? Those have the orangy tint. Those are some I see, but you do have a lot of positives to prove other-wise. |
with all of these varied opinions....we can all agree the value of PSA and third party graders.
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I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU to all of you who have commented. I'm definitly sending it in to PSA.
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If you handed these pictures only to every grader at PSA you would likely get the same varied opinions, or no opinion at all without card in hand.
But given what the OP paid for the card, if it is real and he ever intends to sell it, he should get it graded, no question |
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Those look to me to be your words Jake
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I am going on board here to say-- that if I had something that's possible worth 10K++ and not know if its real or not??
Hell yeah, I am going to get that looked at You already took the 1st step by asking members here, some say yes, some no. As you probably already decided, send it in. |
I am skeptical due to absolute 50/50 centering.....Not sure I ever remember when I have seen absolute dead on centering like that. Maybe once or twice out of a thousand cards?
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My initial response was if the original poster went back to the yard sale an hour later and a different 52 Mantle was in the same box, it would likely be a fake... :)
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Not personal, just business...
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Just wanted to add to the OP that there is a card show in Redford Michigan this Sunday from 9am to 2pm. https://www.facebook.com/RedfordCardShow/
I'm sure you could get an opinion there or at least actually see and feel an ungraded '52 common to compare with yours. Lots of older gentlemen selling 50's Topps cards set up shop at the show....like every other card show in America. |
So like other Mantles on net54....we never get to see the results of a PSA submission... gone with the wind
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When someone comes on the board with less than 20 posts and asks about a 52 Mantle, why do I always wonder if it's someone asking "how good does this fake look?" And then we tell them how to make the fake better. Just me being cynical I guess
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cynicism-free zone
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What a cynical group :)
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You guys are probably right and if so think how maddening it must be for a guy to get all this advice about his card and what he should do with it when all he wants is an offer :)
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100% Fake
Just peeked at the photos and no way is this card real. The scanner did a good job to capture the pattern of ink rosettes used in 4C printing. Among thest I;ve ever seen.
But, the corners are obviously hand-scraped on sandpaper or a file to round them. You can tell because the paper is curling on the rounded corners. Sure sign it's artificial wear created very quickly. Real wear would result in those paper fibers slowly wearing away leaving a diminished thickness of the stock on the worn corners. Luckily there is no counterfeit substitute for card wear that occurs over time. Total 100% fake. |
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I didn't disappear guys.....i should be hearing back from PSA any day now...It's supposed to take 7 days after they receive it and I'm on day 10.....growing impatient.....i'm really hoping that the extra time may be because it's legit.
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well if the card ends up being 'psa legit' then all of the people posting that its 100% fake etc will be looking pretty bad..
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I called PSA and although they have not completed my submission yet (UGH!!!! Day 14 of estimated 7day) I was told the Mantle was found to be a counterfeit....even though it has the honeycomb printing....disappointing for sure but it was a $25 lottery ticket so i'm not that upset.
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Actually the grades just posted on their site.....The 52 Mantle was graded "N4 Questionable Authenticity".....my question to all of you....what does that even mean?
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It could be a very good fake or a very poor genuine. Glad to read it was only $25 bucks for you. |
It means fake, but it also means their lawyers won't let them call it "FAKE" for the 0.001% chance that the card is real.
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mant...cAAOSwHNxaQd6S |
Not surprised at all for the identifying reason I noted in my post
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Thanks for coming back to fill us in with the results, tech.
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At least you will save a lot in grading fees versus if the mantle turned out to be real. You saved a lot there at least.
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Would have been a nice story if it was real, but 1) '52 Mantle's have been reprinted/faked for 40 years and 2) I'm always suspicious when the ONE card someone "finds in their attic" is a high dollar card. Where are the other '52's in the stash? No wrappers? No other years? Seems ridiculous to me.
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A friend of mine asked if I could check out his collection before he gave it to a family member. Just a quick "oh yeah, can you check out my collection" just before we headed out drinking. That was a surprise, since I didn't think he even had a collection at all. I was nearly right - 4 cards, between 71 and 73 including a Schmidt rookie. I've also come across antique dealers with one card of a star from the 50's. It's less common, but for a while some dealers would buy only a card or two from a collection, or just a single from a random seller. I got my Baker silk at a coin show that way, it was the only baseball card the dealer had. |
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