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The Ohtani 50 50 ball -- lawsuit to stop Goldin Auction
Please delete if already posted. Plaintiff claims consignor stole the ball from him after he gained possession.
https://sports.yahoo.com/fan-claimin...195832628.html |
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"Belanski put his “arm in between his legs and wrangled the 50/50 Ball out "
He's just lucky Belanski got the right ball |
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This reminds me so much of the fictionalized Bobby Thomson home run ball arm wrestling scene under the seat in Dom Delillo's Underworld (Pafko at the Wall).
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Had the game been in LA, the Dodger staff probably would have locked the guy in a room with no food or bathroom until he traded the ball for an autographed photo.
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If someone did rip the ball out of an 18-year-olds hand, that's some crap
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Full evidentiary hearing October 10, which is before the auction ends. A settlement between Matus and Belanski would not surprise me, obviously there will be plenty of money to go around.
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I watched the film, and you can see the 18yo visibly upset losing the ball. I'm not sure what precedent there is, but I vaguely remember other lawsuits like this previously. Was it for a McGwire ball, or Bonds?
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Here no one caught the ball, it was loose on the ground and the parties were fighting to gain posssession of it. |
Won't there be somehing about
"possession being 9/10 of the law?" I've always thought that strong arm methods, beating up small kids, and martial tactics are just part of the game. And you have to be there in person to appreciate it. One game at Fenway years ago vs the Yankees in the seventies, my small son, about 10 years ago, upon exiting via a rooftop spied a ball near the edge, perhaps a foul ignored during the game. As he literally had it in his hand, a grown man pushed him over on his head and took it away from him. It was dangerous. The man disappeared, but I was furious and complained to management by mail. They mailed me two baseballs for which we were grateful. I also recall that Phil Rizutto was an onlooker and sympathized with my son which took all of the sting out of it. It wasn't an official exit, sort of player's exit.
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Three games to go, and he's at 53/56
Yeah , a super long shot, but I'm sort of rooting for him to get to 60/60 and complicate things a bit. |
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This thread reads like Cris Collinsworth calling the play by play on a fumble.
"When did the ball come out? Did the first guy have full possession with a knee on the ground?" |
If this is the only video evidence, I think it doesn't tell a conclusive story that Matus had possession of the ball for however long it takes to establish that Belanski actually took it away from him. The judge would also have to believe his testimony. This ball will sell for so much that the parties should compromise this and not risk walking away with nothing, IMO.
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I don’t know man. 18 year old looked like maybe the 3rd person in there. Certainly not conclusive. Can’t throw a winning lottery ticket into a crowd and expect people to be civil. |
I must admit that I don’t see the beauty of owning a baseball like this(it looks like any other baseball) but, that said, it is easier to see the appeal of an unbroken record ball, like Barry Bonds’ 73rd HR ball. This ball is the 50/50 ball. Isn’t the 51/50 ball or the 52/56 ball even better?
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I watched the video a couple of times and I believe the 18-year-old kid in the red Miami shirt had the ball in his hand, and the guy on the ground was holding his arm and applying enough force to wrench the ball from him.
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I couldn't tell what happened in the scrum. Perhaps they need to send the footage to New York for a review (frame by frame). At the end of the video, you would see the kid mouthing "fffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkk".
If that guy used physical force to rip it out of the kids hand, would that be battery? What would be even funnier is if the stadium security took the person with the ball to a location to provide "authentication of the ball" and then pull a switch and giving the person another game used ball. I wonder if Ohtani's ex-interpreter had a bet that he'd homer in that at bat? |
In the opening chapter of Underworld, there's a scrum under the seats for the Thomson ball, and it's the older (white) guy who gets to it first. Then the younger (black) kid gives his wrist an "Indian burn" and grabs it from him. The non-violent encounter between the two afterwards, which carries on to the edge of Harlem, is epic. And here we now have the scene, in real life.
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Again, very difficult to see exactly what happened, but the kid’s reaction certainly seemed like he believed he had possession of the ball and it was taken from him. |
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...said nobody, ever. |
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I believe Ohtani is one HR from 55/55. Certainly, that trumps 50/50 and would take a lot of the shine off that 50/50 ball.
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Yah, how they doing now? 🤣
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I wonder what that 70 ball is worth today
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Here is a view, once the green shirt guy misses it the second time, the first person in the frame on the ground is the 18 yo Matus.
https://youtube.com/shorts/C-QLPZ4DJ...JWkc3Wy1CU3xTb I don't see a striped shirt guy as the first or second guy in multiple videos. I wonder what video he is providing? the first video on Twitter I saw has not been posted on YouTube. Or it's been buried by influencer videos. Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk |
LOL WTF. This guy is full of it.
Video footage from the stands shows Davidov, wearing a blue-and-white striped shirt, smiling and shaking Belanski's hand after the latter man had secured the ball. Workman attributed that action to "the adrenaline, the historic moment." https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ESMoqp5_o00 |
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I think the kid gets a settlement. He has a good lawyer and video evidence supports his claims. |
Should the courts allow Goldin to run the auction to establish the value of the ball?
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I find it hard to understand why the auction would be allowed to proceed. If the 18 year old wins the suit and is awarded possession, it's not up to anyone but him as to whether or not he sells the ball.
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But would he need to be awarded damages if he's awarded possession of the ball? I just don't see how Goldin, who doesn't own the ball in any way, can decide unilaterally that it will sell a ball whose ownership is in question. How can the consignment agreement stand if the consignor is said not to own the ball?
If I put myself in the position of the 18 year old fighting for ownership, if I'm awarded the ball and am declared the ball's rightful owner because it was stolen from me, I don't know what it would take to rectify things with me from Goldin. Money wouldn't be the issue. It would feel like the ball was stolen from me twice and I never had any agency in a situation where I own something. |
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Entirely out of curiosity, and knowing the answer might not be out there.
How do lawyers take these cases? Paid? or contingency? Seems like it's very iffy all around. And of course, it's only worth much of anything as a milestone ball. The 12th hr by a guy likely to end up with 12 in his career isn't any big deal except to the person that catches it. |
I assume Matus' lawyer is on contingency. What's iffy about it?
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The reminded me of something like this I saw a few years back. Like most people would, I find an adult strong-arming a kid out of a ball beyond repugnant. I'm not a lawyer, but I think such an act would constitute battery. I was at a game in Baltimore sitting near first base, when this happened. Onlookers cussed the guy out but he didn't care. This was basically a mugging. The first base umpire, having caught the episode out of the corner of his eye, came over after the inning ended and handed a ball to the kid. It restored my faith in umpires. Well sorta. |
Ok, I guess I'm going to be the one a*@hole to say this.
18 year-olds were drafted to go to Vietnam and I have a cousin who signed up for the Marines and was sent to Afghanistan at that age. 18 year-olds are playing Division 1 College Sports all over this country, and many are competing on a high level. I've run into plenty of 18 year olds I would not want to get into a fist fight with because I would most assuredly lose. Not sure if the guy doing the strong-arming for the lottery ticket randomly thrown into the crowd was supposed to check birth certificates before diving under bleacher seats for a ball. I to have seen adults act like an ass at Minor League games chasing a worthless ball, although most will just turn around and hand it to the nearest kid anyways. You can bet though, if that ball had a bank account number on it, which unlocked a key to a 7 figure payday, those adults wouldn't be so quick to hand the ball over to the nearest doe eyed kid they could find. Maybe I was the only one thinking this throughout the course of this thread...or I'm the only one to admit it. :D:D |
I don't know how much age factors into other people's opinions on this behavior, but I tend to think if you have to rip something out of someone's hand to take possession of it, you didn't catch the baseball.
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I once caught the drumstick at a George Thorogood and the Destroyers concert and was in basically the same sort of scrum. I just went down and covered up like I had a fumble recovery and came away with the stick when the dust settled. I think I threw it away later, so there's that. Far more fun was being at the foot of the stage at the end of the show and getting to shake hands with the band.
The court will sort it out, but if it emerges that the guy pinned down the other guy's arm and pried the ball out of his hand, well, where I was born, we called that "getting mugged." I give the 18 y.o. credit for self-restraint. I know me at 18 would probably have ended up in cuffs for assault; I did once get into a fight in the street with a would-be mugger. 92nd Street between West End and Riverside in NYC. I was a kid. I got so mad when the bigger kid who was mugging me insisted that I turn out my pockets that I threw punches instead. I got the worst of it in the end, but I kept my money. Today, the old fart me would have been too busy ducking to avoid getting hit by the ball and the pouncing people to even get into the scrum. Young me, not so much. How long will it be until two or three guys square up and really punch it out over a ball? And while I am spewing random thoughts on this, a reason why 50 is better than 55 may be round number bias. It's the 50/50 club, not the 55/56 club. |
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Either two men come out of that scrum, one hand firmly planted on each side of the baseball, singing kumbaya, and pledging to split the proceeds of the windfall, while setting 10% aside to start a non-profit cat rescue...or one of them "rips" it out of the others hand, and claims singular ownership of the ball. Don't see how else that plays out. Now, that said, my feeling is, they'll have to sell, and split the proceeds (with their lawyers) when it comes down to it. The other guy who filed suit, is out of luck unless video surfaces that shows exactly what he claims happened, actually happened. |
I agree. I think the most likely outcome is split ownership and split proceeds.
The NFL says a man who goes down in possession of the ball is in possession of the ball regardless of who stands up with it. |
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Assuming they can actually tell who's in possession of it. Many a football has changed "ownership" at the bottom of a pile. |
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Second fan files lawsuit claiming ownership of Shohei Ohtani’s 50-50 baseball
https://apnews.com/article/shohei-oh...8d7efb87319ad0 |
Seems like with three individuals all claiming ownership of the baseball and no clear way to determine who actually possessed it first, the judge should ask for the ball to be tendered to the bailiff whereupon it will be cut into three equal pieces and 1/3rd distributed to each plaintiff. Or, better yet, have the bailiff throw the three pieces on the ground and they can reenact the wrestling match.
As an aside, I must be getting old, because watching the video of the kid with one hand uselessly gripping his phone while a $4 million ball is supposedly in his other hand is beyond stupid. Did you learn nothing in little league? When fielding a ball, ALWAYS use two hands! In addition, if I was 18 and a grown man was at my waste trying to wrestle my ball away, my "free" elbow is plowing into his nose. I can't think the medical bills plus pain and suffering would be more than the value of the ball, even if my defense of property and self failed in court. |
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I think any historic ball, puck, etc ... like this should go back to the player to be auctioned off with the proceeds going to the charity of his/her choice and it would avoid all of this nonsense.
In the second video in Peters original post it clearly shows that although the 18 year old was the first person to run towards the ball the ball rolled away from him. You can see it rolling off the table diagonally towards the lower left hand corner in the video. |
IMO, the video proves nothing.
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im guessing if original posessor of this ball agreed to terms with the dodgers and made a trade...these 2 other claimants would've never come forward...additionally...if original posessor of the ball didn't bring it to market so soon with such a high price tag...these 2 claimants would've never come forward.
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Truth! It's all about the money. So it's ultimately the fans/collectors/people who are willing to pay the nosebleed prices for such memorabilia who are to "blame" for these legal brouhahas. Plus the lawyers of course.
And no, I won't be among the bidders in any auction for this ball. :( |
By agreement, the preliminary injunction hearing is canceled, and the auction will continue. I infer that means the proceeds will be kept in escrow and barring a settlement, the court will later conduct a trial to determine entitlement. So much for any romantic notion the kid really wanted the ball, I guess.
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Once it sells for some absurd amount, I bet these guys reach an allocation rather than rolling the dice.
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2.1 million current bid, ends tonight.
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