"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>For discussion:<br /><br />In Defense of Quality Auctioneers<br /><br />Joe Orlando<br /><br />The industry is a small place in many respects and word can travel fast, especially something of a negative nature. With the popularity of message boards on the Internet, communication between people is easier than ever. When a disgruntled hobbyist decides to launch a verbal assault on someone, it can be done with a few strikes on a keyboard.<br /><br />One of the entities in our business that endures a great deal of abuse is the auction house. For the purpose of this article, I am talking about the high-end auction house. I am not including auction venues such as eBay, even though high-end items sell on sites such as this each day. These auction houses offer thousands of items each year, including many items in the $5,000 and higher category. We are talking about a segment of the industry that contains fewer than a dozen notable competitors yet they combine to generate nearly $100 million in revenue annually.<br /><br />Despite the sheer volume of items offered, some hobbyists are very quick to point out a mistake. Even if the mistake is only one in 1,000 lots, this type of person salivates at the chance to disparage an otherwise terrific sale. Maybe it’s personal or a result of character flaw in the offending party? Whatever the reason, it does nothing to help the hobby and it is often unfair to the target of such animosity.<br /><br />Believe me, as the leading 3rd party authenticator in the hobby, we know what it’s like to act as the punching bag for frustrated hobbyists. When you are often in the business of delivering bad news, you have to know how to absorb verbal punishment. For the betterment of the entire industry, all I would ask of these people is to focus on helping the hobby instead of hurting it. I would also ask that people keep honest mistakes in perspective.<br /><br />We are all human. Experts make mistakes. Collectors make mistakes. So do auction houses. How they handle mistakes is what separates a good auction house from a bad one. The fact that they make mistakes just means they are imperfect like the rest of us. Please keep in mind that I am, in no way, coming to the defense of auction houses that ignore evidence that an item is problematic or ones that treat their customers poorly.<br /><br />If you see a problem with an auction lot, don’t you think the company would want to know if there’s an issue? While some auction houses may ignore the new information, the ones who are interested in preserving their name would embrace it, especially when they can avoid controversy and bad press.<br /><br />Recently, I was looking over an ad for a notable auction company and noticed what appeared to be a problem with one of the items. I simply called one of my contacts at the company and let him know of the potential problem. After reviewing the item further, they pulled the piece from the sale and thanked me for alerting them of the issue. They were not offended at all but appreciative that someone took the time to alert them instead of concealing the information to only bash them publicly at a later time.<br /><br />If you care about the hobby, as I do, then you will do the same. Good companies care about their reputation and do not want to be associated with controversial items if they can avoid it. Communicating with auction houses is a good thing. None of us can know it all and all of us make mistakes. Make the hobby a better place by sharing information and avoid becoming a naysayer. It serves no purpose.<br /><br />Never get cheated,<br />Joe Orlando<br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Adam</b><p>Is there a specific Net 54 thread you think he had in mind when he wrote that?<br /><br />Edited to add: If so, which one(s)?

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Probably talking about his own board Adam. I don't think Joe spends much time over here these days.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Rick McQuillan</b><p>And everyone lived happily everafter.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>I wish he was more specific when he mentions the lot that he alerted the auction house to. I doubt the veracity of this without something more detailed. Was it a mistake made by another authenticator (oh, sorry, Joe doesn't personally authenticate anything), or a mispelling (misspelling) in a description?<br /><br />Certainly, it could not have been a mistake made by PSA, because if they ever have made a mistake, it was surely addressed smartly.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>how glad I am to know Joe is on the job. Surely he's the hobby's best detective. I am absolutley positively certain that there is no more to this story--that Joe acted purely out of altruism and love of the hobby (if he acted as stated at all).

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Joe is weak. And desperate. And his tagline of "never get cheated" is sadly ironic.<br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>David Davis</b><p>Does his editorial mean that PSA has an interest in the image that auction houses have? No wonder I see ads that indicate record prices of PSA cards by the auction house, and PSA showing the record prices the auction houses received for one of their graded cards.<br /><br />I thought that the average collector collectively was their biggest customer? Where's the editorial on improvements in customer service, or specials that are catered to vintage or high $ cards? Those are the cards you brag about; how about some appreciation to the people that make that happen, which is all of us.<br /><br />I think PSA is a positively second-rate alternative.<br /><br />Keeping auction houses honest insures good business for everyone. If the auction house in question would just address the issues with the people that raise them, in a public forum or not, it would improve their image.<br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p><br />Hmm. So apparently the "P" and the "A" in PSA stand for Passive-Aggressive. Does the "S" represent sanctimonious?

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Joe is basically blaming the victim here.<br /><br />Since everything is so hunky-dory in the auction house world -- and it is "disgruntled" hobbyists that are whacking the auction houses around, I would propose a wager with Joe Orlando: I'll put 100K up against Joe's 100K that if the principals of the auction house he is referring to undergo polygraph examinations and are asked one question -- "are you aware of any employee or representative of your auction house who has engaged in shill bidding or efforts to run up any of your bidders in any of your auctions?" -- at least one of them will be determined to have known of such conduct. If I'm right, Joe pays me 100K; if I'm wrong he gets my money. <br /><br />Instead of "never gets cheated", perhaps Joe can use "never cheat" in the future.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>David Davis</b><p>With apologies to Rod Serling<br /><br />You're traveling through another criticism, a criticism not only of right and wrong but of having a spine. A journey into a wondrous thread whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's the signpost up ahead - your next stop, the Chris Morales thread.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Dennis W.</b><p>I don't post often even though I've been a member for 4-5 years, but I found it impossible to ignore this thread. Why would PSA even care about the auction industry? Why is Mr. Orlando coming to the defense of an auction house(s) out of the blue? Why should we believe that auction houses get no grading preference over us ordinary Joe's when he makes such a statement?<br /><br />(I post as Dennis W. to distinguish myself from the other Dennis's on the board. My name is Dennis Wilson and my email address is posted to satisfy Leon's requirement for identification in cases where statements may be construed as being critical of others)

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>"Joe is basically blaming the victim here.<br /><br />Since everything is so hunky-dory in the auction house world -- and it is "disgruntled" hobbyists that are whacking the auction houses around, I would propose a wager with Joe Orlando: I'll put 100K up against Joe's 100K that if the principals of the auction house he is referring to undergo polygraph examinations and are asked one question -- "are you aware of any employee or representative of your auction house who has engaged in shill bidding or efforts to run up any of your bidders in any of your auctions?" -- at least one of them will be determined to have known of such conduct. If I'm right, Joe pays me 100K; if I'm wrong he gets my money. <br /><br />Instead of "never gets cheated", perhaps Joe can use "never cheat" in the future."<br /><br />I will throw in $5K for the Memory Lane/PSA gang to undergo a polygraph. Have you ever researched VCP for Memory Lane relized prices vs. REA/Mastro/eBay etc. Many, many common cards realizing multiples of the others, outright outlandish. It isn't better marketing or mailing lists my friends. <br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>A good and fair rule is to report a legitimate problem to the auction house first before posting it a public board like this. Gives the auction house the chance to address/correct an error first. This should be a common courtesy offered to all (excluding obvious scam artists). If the auctioneer doesn't respond or correct the legitimate error, then the poster could feel free to address it publicly.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>Nodgrass

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Joe Orlando speaks...<br /><br />A few mistakes are made by auction houses and "disgruntled" hobbyists want to go on the attack.<br /><br />Hey Joe, what about all the disgruntled hobbyists that go on the attack about PSA. Are they being unfair? Why doesn't Joe just say PSA makes their share of mistakes? Why not let people know what PSA will do to rectify the problems they create? Maybe I took the "article" out of context but when Joe said that people should just inform the auction house of problems did he mean problems associated with PSA grading or just vintage material in general? <br /><br /><br />Edited to add the following...<br /><br />Oh yeah, <font size = +4>PSA sucks! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14></font><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>John</b><p>“One of the entities in our business that endures a great deal of abuse is the auction house. For the purpose of this article, I am talking about the high-end auction house. I am not including auction venues such as eBay, even though high-end items sell on sites such as this each day. These auction houses offer thousands of items each year, including many items in the $5,000 and higher category. We are talking about a segment of the industry that contains fewer than a dozen notable competitors yet they combine to generate nearly $100 million in revenue annually. Despite the sheer volume of items offered, some hobbyists are very quick to point out a mistake. Even if the mistake is only one in 1,000 lots, this type of person salivates at the chance to disparage an otherwise terrific sale. Maybe it’s personal or a result of character flaw in the offending party? Whatever the reason, it does nothing to help the hobby and it is often unfair to the target of such animosity.”<br /><br />Right couldn’t agree more Mr. Orlando so why even take a chance with any questionable lot in the first place seems a shame to throw away such a reputation for a chance to make a few bucks…Why even take the chance to add disclaimers to any lot, if you need to add a disclaimer perhaps you shouldn’t auction the item to begin with.<br /><br />"this type of person salivates at the chance to disparage an otherwise terrific sale."<br /><br />Not sure the Nodgrass would have been a terrific sale...do you Mr. Orlando?<br /><br />“If you see a problem with an auction lot, don’t you think the company would want to know if there’s an issue? While some auction houses may ignore the new information, the ones who are interested in preserving their name would embrace it, especially when they can avoid controversy and bad press.”<br /><br />Great point again Mr. Orlando so where are we with this? Now’s a great time to bring some positive publicity to an unfortunate situation…one that you have been made aware of several times now for the record....<br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/58uewb" target="_new">http://tinyurl.com/58uewb</a><br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/large/funny.jpg"><br /><br /><br />Sound words of advice...thanks PSA!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>"If you care about the hobby, as I do..." was the proof to me that this letter was nothing more than Joe trying to quiet down PSA critics. Since when has Joe demonstrated he cares about the hobby? When PSA decided to go with half grades and guarantee that upon review your card would either come back unchanged or in a higher holder sending back into circulation cards which were over graded or altered? Or maybe it was when he behind the scenes helped his friend and PSA's number one advertiser to recert cards from a previous auction so they appeared as different cards in the advertiser's next auction months later? Of course one of my favorites were Joe showed he cared about the hobby as much as the rest of us do is when he did as little as possible to alert collectors about the wide spread fraud that was perpetrated by When It Was A Game. How many cards have I personally submitted to Joe for the graders' review which I knew were altered and each time came back with the explanation the cards were graded correctly? Ah yes, Joe's interest in the well being of this hobby is endless. If Joe ever was behind anything that was in the best interest of the hobby I must have blinked and missed it.<br /><br />Greg<br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jeff what size are you for our next dinner in NY?<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/websize/tshirt_barcode_full%20copy.jpg">

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Greg Sonk</b><p>I'm both shocked and appalled that you guys would think that was anything but the heartfelt plea of a bastion of light in the lifeless void of our hobby. Of course Joe has the best interests of the hobby in mind.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1176682851/last-1176853896/Memory+Lane+Redux" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1176682851/last-1176853896/Memory+Lane+Redux</a>-<br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1177137458/Re-+THE+MEMORY+LANE+FULL+STORY" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1177137458/Re-+THE+MEMORY+LANE+FULL+STORY</a><br /><br />If they delete all mention from their message board, it clearly never happened. Right?<br /><br />I haven't bought a PSA card since the day that thread was posted.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Ted Sherman</b><p>I love the shirt! I think wrote it so his MAJOR contributors would keep sending him their business. MAMMARY lane, Andy MAdec, and all these other auctions house that fill about 95% of the SMR each month. BTW I am a PSA memeber and I haven't opened the SMR in a year...anyone want and mint fresh unopened copies <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Larry P.</b><p>I would assume that many major auction houses de facto shill bid. In fact, several state in the auction rules that their own employees and representatives can bid on items in the auction. <br /><br />In my mind this is tantamount to allowing shill bidding. Many other types of auction houses allow this as well, so it is a common practice throughout the auction industry. As a bidder, I don't like it one bit, but is it cheating, if the rules allow it? Or is it even unethical?<br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'm not sure I would equate allowing an employee to bid with shill bidding. While it is not a widely accepted practice, auction employees do have personal collections. So I believe there is a distinction between bidding on something for one's collection and running up a ceiling bid for the sake of a higher price.<br /><br />That said, it is preferable employess do not bid. Likewise, it's not clear that the right precautions are in place to make sure the bidding is done properly.<br /><br />I've said this before but when I worked for Sotheby's I was allowed to bid on Halper material and was even given a form to fill out called an employee bid sheet.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I agree with Barry. I am waiting for the day, as an addicted collector AND auctioneer, that we take in a consignment for our auction that I HAVE to have for my collection. Scott and I have a written rule against bidding in our auction so it will be a dark day for me <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>.....

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'll bid, and then we can do a trade.<br /><br />Now while I said that tongue in cheek, would that be considered ethical? It would all be done in good faith.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>That is a good question for debate. Lets don't get too far off track of Joe's plea to be nice to auction houses.... This question could almost be a good new thread? I don't know the answer but my initial thought is "No" I couldn't have you do it and still be "at arms length" from the auction...which is most likely the wrong term used but you know what I mean....

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I admire your high ethical standards, but frankly I don't see what would be wrong and who would get hurt by it. Not suggesting we form a pact, just don't see what the problem is (although there may be one).

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>I really expect Auction Houses to have collectors or former collectors as employees. I want their staff to know something about the industry, and the logical way to hire people with industry knowledge is to hire people like some on this board. So it has never bothered me that employees bid in the auctions.<br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Well Barry, in a perfect world there wouldn't be an issue of having you bid for me BUT I can see bidders (as the auctioneer) that other bidders (yourself) can't see. To me that is an unfair advantage. If everyone could see everyone elses bids then it would be ok.....I am far from perfect but do try to go overboard about being ethical in the hobby..hence the written rules in our auction.....I am not commenting on any other auction houses only my own....

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Yes, but the fact that you can see things is irrelevant, because if you didn't share that information with me I would be on the same playing field as everyone else.<br /><br />On the other hand, if you told me two whales were bidding against me then we've crossed an ethical line.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Denny Walsh</b><p>I was curious to see what ebay's take on "Shill Bidding" was. Not to say that I agree with any of ebay's views or rules, ebay - on paper anyway - run a real tight ship when it comes to who can't bid on items.<br /><br />ebay's policy on Shill bidding is as follows:<br /><br /> Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller–even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. Family members, roommates or employees may purchase items from a seller without violating this policy simply by using purchase options–such as Buy It Now–which do not involve bidding.<br /><br />eBay strongly encourages sellers with employees to ensure that their employees are aware of this policy and the possible consequences of violation.<br /><br />Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:<br /><br />Listing cancellation<br /><br />Limits on account privileges<br /><br />Account suspension<br /><br />Forfeit of eBay fees on canceled listings <br /><br />Loss of PowerSeller status<br /><br />Referral to Law Enforcement <br /><br />Spend a few minutes taking eBay's tutorial on shill bidding.<br /><br />Their tutorial has me convinced that ebay believes everyone is Shill bidding <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14> ... So, I guess ebays view on auction houses that allow in house bidding could potentially be a criminal!? <br /><br />Food for thought... But if I ran an auction house, being above reproach would be the goal. <br /><br />Life's Grand,<br />Denny Walsh

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Denny- one thing I find interesting is ebay doesn't want employees or relatives bidding because they would have some inside information regarding the bids, but when I sell on ebay I know absolutely nothing about who is about to bid or how high his ceiling may be. I couldn't tip off an employee (I'm a sole proprietorship, so no real employees) even if I wanted to.<br /><br />And there shouldn't be any secret information about the lot; that should all be revealed in the description.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Denny Walsh</b><p>Barry, <br /><br />For the most part, the employees that ebay is talking about are the employees of the ebay id running the auction.<br /><br />Example: If your sellin a card, Your brother can't bid on it. Or his wife, or your landscaper, etc....<br /> <br />Might be a bit out of hand, imho.<br /><br />Life's Grand,<br />Denny Walsh

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'm banning my landscaper!

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>My landscaper is Don Loucious. I'm totally screwed.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>davidcyleback</b><p>Don't worry, I think it's okay for your landscaper to bid in your auctions. <br />(Duly note that your son mowing your lawn doesn't count as your landscaper.)<br /><br />For full disclosure, I live in a second floor condo with five potted plants, <br />and don't employ the services a landscaper. I do have a large green watering <br />can, but it's ethical (Doesn't water on the Saturday).

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Denny Walsh</b><p>It'd a good thing I don't have apaper route anymore <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />David... I blew a snot bubble when I read your Rod Sterling Take.... 'My Stomach still hurts from laughing.'<br /><br />Life's Grand,<br />Denny Walsh<br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Guys, I'm not suggesting that the auction houses are in the wrong if they simply follow their stated rules about employees bidding on items. I'm talking about principles or reps of the auction houses running up a bid up to the known-to-them ceiilng bid. Or using other individuals' accounts to shill bid without the individuals previously giving authority or making the bids themselves. That's the sort of fraud I'm talking about. I'm sure Never Get Cheated and the auction house he refers to will jump on my proffered wager as soon as possible. Or not.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>"I do have a large green watering can, but it's ethical (Doesn't water on the Saturday)."<br /><br />I believe what you have is a religious watering can - not to be confused with an ethical one.<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>CoreyRS.hanus</b><p>"With apologies to Rod Serling"<br /><br />That statment by David Davis couldn't have better summed up my feelings as I was reading Mr. Orlando's post. It truly does belong in the twilight zone.<br /><br />If I was making a short list of people who have no business telling others what they should or shouldn't do, or what is good for this hobby, Joe Orlando would be on it. How many times have well-intentioned people raised legitimate questions about PSA's actions? How many times has Joe Orlando refused to return serious phone inquiries or ever post responses on this board? For a person who runs what he describes as the leading 3rd party authenticator in the hobby, his actions have over time lead me to reasonably question whether PSA is motivated by anything other than its bottom line.<br /><br />I'm sorry Mr. Orlando, but I just cannot take your post seriously.<br><br>

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Joe's post is comical. Very vague as usual. What event specifically caused his post? We can guess but I would venture to say that there are several, more than we care to imagine, events that could have caused his political statement. If we knew specifically what he was referring to, we could address it with facts.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />We concur with Corey Shanus' comments<br /><br />We wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Orlando wrote his memoirs.<br /><br />He could call the book "Making The Grade"<br /><br />Chapter One: How to raise your average<br /><br />Chapter Two : Honest Hobbyists Really Grade On Me<br /><br />Chapter Three: Is It Certifiable?<br /><br />Chapter Four: Walking Down Memory Lane<br /><br />Chapter Five; The Big Shill<br /><br />Chapter Six: Plastics my boy, Plastics<br /><br />Chapter Seven: You can fool some of the people some of the time<br /><br />Chapter Eight Our special Heritage<br /><br />Chapter Nine: Truth or Consequences<br /><br /><br /><br />Anyone else have additional thoughts for other chapters. Hopefully, Mr. Orlando and friends<br />will avoid having to write Chapters 11 and 13<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List<br /><br /><br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I like Chapter 4 <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Richard Simon</b><p>Chapter Ten: The Evolving Dramatic Story of the Auction House Autograph COA<br />==<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Bruce I LOVE Chapter 4! That was funny!!

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>"Be Chill to Your Shill"<br /><br />Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah<br /><br />JO's missives have about as much street cred in the Hobby as Bush's pronouncements about progress in Iraq. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>If Joe would take some of this writing energy and write the victom of the Nodgrass card a refund, I think he would be better served.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>How many times has Joe Orlando refused to return serious phone inquiries or ever post responses on this board?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Corey would you post here if you were him? Like he would be treated fairly here?<br /><br />If he posted here it would be like vultures on a carcass.<br /><br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p> But Leon has had several calls into Joe and he has posted that he never recieved a response. <br /><br /> I'm sure Leon would love to hear from Joe when these issues come up.<br /><br /> Regards<br /> Rich

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I have previously left Joe O 2 v-mails with no return call from him. I guess I don't blame him but it's not like I am going to be unprofessional or bite his head off. I do agree that if he posted on this board he would take some flak....however, with that being said there are also ways to post on this board and not get slammed too badly. It's really pretty easy. You post once, state your opinion and say it will be your only post. Any other questions can be emailed or telephoned.....It works well....

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>CoreyRS.hanus</b><p>Steve,<br /><br />To answer your question, yes, if I have nothing to hide, I would post here. If I'm running the leading 3rd party authenticator in the hobby, I would recognize that as head of that company I have a responsibility to forthrightly address legitimate concerns expressed on the leading chat board in the hobby. In doing so, yes, I know there will be those who will attack me no matter what I say. But I think that if I come across as responsive to those concerns, I will gain the respect of the vast majority of board members. And in the process I will only brighten my company's business outlook.<br /><br />And I would always return telephone calls.<br /><br />So why then doesn't he post? Perhaps because he knows he will not be able to persuade well-intentioned reasonable people that his company's actions are motivated by anything other than its bottom line. So in such instance he will reasonably conclude that his best strategy will be to confine his remarks to a friendly forum that he controls where he can stifle all dissent.<br><br>

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>#1) Bruce - LOVED your post - very funny stuff!<br /><br />#2) I just got my SMR yesterday and I have to say that I was astounded at the ridiculous lack of reading material. It's getting worse. Not to mention the fact that the coverboy (MJ) was not even pictured in the article about the basketball set in question. weird choice. <br />Read the blurb from Joey O. and I have to say that he didn't seem to say much. Just a whine to stop picking on his friends. not sure why he thought it needed him to say it. That's what I don't understand. It just doesn't seem like a good business idea to pick on your client base (hobbyists).<br /><br />really weird stuff.<br /><br />I wonder how PSA is going to handle the recession.<br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>Do you think he's a lurker on this board ?

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Brad Larson</b><p>This thread really proved Joe's point about internet message boards and the ease of bashing a company in a public forum. I guess the guy should just abandon the editorials that he does, because all it provides is fuel for neato message board guys to bash a company that they could just as easily avoid doing business with in a silent manner instead of feeling the need to use the anonymous power of the internet to "make a difference."

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>"I would recognize that as head of that company I have a responsibility to forthrightly address legitimate concerns expressed on the leading chat board in the hobby".<br /><br />Corey, that is totally true. And Joe does address it on the leading chat board in the hobby; the PSA CU board. <br /><br />I believe that he does do this. Deleting threads, ignoring phone calls, pretending criticism is misplaced, etc., all address concerns. Unfortunately for everyone, they are Joe's concerns.<br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Yeah, Joe addresses it on a chatboard where he can remove anything he doesn't like.....And you are partially wrong about the best chatboard on the internet. Yes, the PSA one is best at shiny new stuff.....but it can't hold a candle to this one for pre-war....not even remotely close, in my biased opinion. Half of their posters wouldn't have a clue what a t206 is....nor do they care...which is fine too....I think if Corey would have said "The best pre-war card chatboard on the internet" it would have been more correct. I am sure their boards get more traffic....not better, but more......

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p> I'm sure Leon would love to hear from Joe when these issues come up.<br /><br /><br /><br />lol I'm just as sure too.<br /><br /><br />Steve

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p> I'd go the Beckett message boards; and while it is moderated; very few if any threads are deleted from those boards --<br /><br /> I would probably use PSA for good information on 1957-1990 cards.<br /><br /> Regards<br /> Rich

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>Leon,<br />You know I love this board. My comment on the best board was tongue-in-cheek.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Brad</b><p>"Yes, the PSA one is best at shiny new stuff.....but it can't hold a candle to this one for pre-war....not even remotely close, in my biased opinion".<br /><br />I agree 100% on that statement. And I would take away the "biased" and replace with "fact based" LOL. <br /><br />The knowledge of pre-war on these boards is unbelievable and leagues ahead of anywhere else I've visited. However, the amount of biased opinions of grading companies and constant bashing of one particular grading company is also more frequent than anywhere I visit. I guess you trade one for the other, lol.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I agree the PSA bashing does get tiresome. Hey, at least they aren't bashing me (today-...yet).... <br /><br />Also, no way do I think PSA switches out cards. I think they have probably made mistakes on reholdering cards to have new submission numbers on the flips but I don't think they would switch out cards...That sounds too crazy....<br /><br />One last thing...I agree with King. We don't want to hear about "what if" and "maybe" concerning PSA or any company. Give us some facts.....

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>JO can write what he wants in "his" magazine. If what he writes is wrong, silly, ridiculous, self-serving, disingenuous or any other species of spin or BS in the view of collectors here, he will get called out for it, same as any other person in the Hobby who mouths off about the Hobby. As far as bias goes, many of the regular posters here have had unsatisfactory encounters with JO in the past, but there are very few people here who are inherently unfair in their responses to things posted here. Not because they are all such great people (didn't think I would get all "up with people", did you? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ) but because they would get flamed as badly or worse for launching an unfair attack. There have been a few instances of posters here with axes to grind and the general community gets sick of it after a while and calls out those people. <br /><br />Jim Rome summed it up best: "Have a take and don't suck." <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>Leon, <br />I had assumed JO's comment about the leading messaage board in the hobby was him talking about his own PSA CU board. He doesn't even acknowledge this one, does he?<br />Why would he care about pre-war? he's trying to pump volumes of plastic through the system<br /><br />Adam,<br />I will be launching an unfair attack shortly. Please stay tuned.<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Joe said..to paraphrase "With the popularity of message boards on the Internet"......I am sure he is referring to his own as well as others. I am also sure he is at least aware of Net54 as some of my friends are friendly with him and they told me they have talked about Net54 with him....I would guess he lurks a little bit but don't know that for sure....

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Call him and ask him Leon, if he doesn't answer, leave a message, he will be sure to get back to you.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think just about everybody lurks, but not everybody is willing to admit it.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>At last years National, one of the registry guys was showing me a PSA-1 card & was thinking that it might be a PSA-2 so he called Joe's cell phone & Joe told him to stop over to the PSA booth.<br /><img src="http://vbbc.forumotion.com/users/17/23/61/smiles/136179.gif"><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>"Go **** yourself?"<br /><br />Or "come by on Monday when we're open"<br /><br />Hah, that would be GAI.<br /><br />Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>"I think just about everybody lurks, but not everybody is willing to admit it."<br /><br />Barry, I disagree. I think people on this board, and any message board for that matter, think more people read it than really do. They may know about the board, no doubt Orlando knows about N54, but may simply not have the time or energy to read even once in a while. I know if I was working full-time, I'd spend less than 10% of the time I spend now goofing off with forums, etc.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Unfortunately the statistics prove you wrong on this one.....even if every single person has THREE computers....there still seem to be a lot of different eyes on this board per month....Here are Unique IP addresses that have hit the front page of this forum, per month, this year......<br /><br /><br />January..... 10,160 <br />February..... 11,014 <br />March..... 11,286 <br />April..... 10,889 <br />May..... 11,592 <br /><br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>Leon, great numbers, congrats. You should be proud of it, as it is clear you are.<br /><br />But proof...humbug, those numbers aren't proof of anything. It proves a decent nubmer of people read this board, and that's great. But it doesn't prove anything as far as the percentage or "majority" of pre-war collectors or people in the hobby. Just to be specific, I was referring to Barry's quote of : "I think just about everybody lurks, but not everybody is willing to admit it." Now, I didn't take him literally when he used "everybody", but I did take him to mean "most people". I disagree with that...your numbers don't prove me wrong nor you right.<br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I agree with you that I don't think "most" vintage collectors read this board. I do still think this is the best and most popular vintage baseball card site on the internet though (of course I am biased).....besides maybe ebay....and the numbers somewhat show that.....but technically we are in agreement <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.....

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Don't mess with King when it comes to numbers! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />JimB<br /><br />P.S. Who knows what the percentage is, but I think it is fair to say that a sizable chunk of the active vintage card collecting community reads this board on at least a semi-regular basis.<br /><br />edited to add: I would be shocked if Joe Orlando does not pop in here for a peek, at least on occassion. I would really be shocked if he is not notified when he or PSA is the subject of discussion.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>"Unfortunately the statistics prove you wrong on this one.....even if every single person has THREE computers....there still seem to be a lot of different eyes on this board per month....Here are Unique IP addresses that have hit the front page of this forum, per month, this year......"<br /><br />The numbers are definitely up there, but keep in mind Searchbots and spyders count toward those totals too. There's a lot of stuff that goes on "behind the scenes" that isn't done by a human. All those hits count too.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>"but technically we are in agreement ....."<br /><br />Excellent!

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>We had a long conversation no so long ago and Net54 came up. He lurks more than you would think.<br /><br />Kevin<br><br>------------------------------<br /><br /><a href="http://www.AlteredCards.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">www.AlteredCards.com</a> - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples<br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>King- there are many people who do not read the board regularly, but when they are getting bashed on a thread they will get contacted by a board regular who alerts them. But as Leon pointed out, there are many more people reading than posting.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I think our board members would be shocked by the identities of some of the people who read -- but do not post -- here.

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Sean BH</b><p>Jeff,<br />Are you talking about Puff Daddy?<br /><br />I guess I should be on my best behavior.<br /><br />

"Auctioneer Bashing" by Joe Orlando
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>If one was an industry figure, it would be almost negligent not to read this board. There is no other venue that I am aware of that has has such a high concentration of expert collectors discussing major hobby issues on a daily basis.