I don't think there's any one thing that causes a pitcher to get hurt but there's lots of little things you can usually spot. Like with Syndergaard; who in their right mind thought it was a good idea for him to bulk up the way he did? How could he possibly preserve his arm and look like that? And how did it benefit him in any to be a pitcher that bulked up?

Lincecum was obviously a mechanics issue. Despite what he thought were "perfect mechanics" he was destroying his hip.

Same with Prior. A guy thought to have "perfect mechanics".

I just think the pitchers who tend to suffer injury after injury aren't as much pitchers as they are throwers. A guy like Maddux didn't get hurt. He wasn't out there throwing though. He knew how to pitch.

As I recall several of DeGrom's injuries were from batting not pitching. Just a delicate guy.

While not a direct one to one comparison, I feel like DeGrom is somewhat close to a modern day Sandy Koufax. An absurdly talented pitcher, that everyone wants on the mound in the big game, but that struggles with health problems. Granted Koufax was able to string together the final six seasons of his career, a magical six seasons!

I hope DeGrom can come back and have a respectable end of a career

I think that Degrom is more like Tim Lincecum that was Amazon start to his career (except he won 3 World Series) had a short career with highs being highs ie 2 Cy young’s and 3 NL strikeout leader awards and even pitched for Texas (and even started his Texas Career on the DL) but injuries and health issues (degenerative hip condition) ended his career to early

I think that is a fair comparison too. I don't think DeGrom's career is over just yet, Maybe a transition into a closer could be in order for him? Could perhaps the stress of a starting pitcher be too much on his elbow? Closing would allow him to go max effort, all the time for 2 innings a pop. Or Maybe utilize him how the old school, traditional closers were, and have him throw 3 innings? I'm just spitballing here.

I agree I do not think his career is over but as he battles injury and Father Time it makes it harder and as for relief pitching or closing games
that is doable and John Smoltz did it for a few years when he has injury issues and he was amazing at it (even was the NL Saves leader in 2002 )but was younger also when he did it and then came back and started some more

Pretty sobering career stats if you really look at the body of work, and now he's on ice for one plus years. We're only captivated by him because we know how untouchable he is capable of being. But in this life you have to deliver on your talent. I'm ready to stick a fork in his HOF chances.

Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Pitching - 12 (244th), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink
Pitching - 92 (310th), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor
Pitching - 51 (275th), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Pitching - 34 (118th), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Starting Pitcher (113th):
44.6 career WAR | 39.8 7yr-peak WAR | 42.2 JAWS | 42.2 S-JAWS | 7.0 WAR/162
Average HOF P (out of 66):
73.0 career WAR | 49.9 7yr-peak WAR | 61.4 JAWS | 56.8 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162

I haven't studied the stat lines, but he reminds me of Chris Sale, who is a really really good pitcher but can't seem to stay healthy.

deGrom isn't a HOF and now will probably never be. When all is said and done, his career isn't better than other multiple Cy Young winners who have no chance at the HOF, like Johan Santana or Bret Saberhagen

I didn't realize how bleak it looked, until you posted the numbers. Short of him pulling a Randy Johnson and winning a couple of more Cy Youngs in his late 30's, it's pretty much impossible for him to get to the Hall now. A damn shame, considering his talent. Put him up there in the "What if?" category with so many other talented ballplayers that succumbed to, too many injuries.

well said

Pleasure watching him when healthy but the best ability is availability and sadly like other potential greats he is not

Santana is a good analogy, he had a short peak where he was sublime.

Article on "The Ringer" about Degrom. Author makes an interesting point about Degrom continuing to push up his velocity numbers, even as his injury history is mounting.

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2023/6...gers-takeaways

I think that speaks to his mindset (or ego) as a pitcher. Instead of pacing himself and continuing to be available while giving up runs here and there, he treats every batter as if they're the last out in the bottom of the 9th of a 1 run game with the bases loaded.

That might be all hardcore and all, but there's a reason why Mariano Rivera, Aroldis Chapman, Dan Quissenberry and company, aren't starting pitchers. The human body is not made to pitch with that intensity for more then a couple innings at a time.

I say Degrom has no chance of making the HOF........unless.....a BIG unless...unless he comes back as a dominant stopper like an Eckersley, and has a long run in that role, well into his 40's.

BTW, if you put up Mariano Rivera's lifetime stats, next to Jacob DeGrom's lifetime stats up to this point, it's fascinating how similar they are, considering their completely different roles in the game.

Why do people continue to make assumptions about closers like Rivera? The reason Rivera became a closer is because he was elite.

You can't just become a closer because you didn't make an impact as a starter. There is a reason why there is only one Mariano Rivera and only two or three truly elite no doubt about it closers in the league at any given time. Even less with longevity.

What assumptions did I make about Rivera? I'm a Yanks fan and he's one of my all-time favorite players. :confused:

I was essentially saying, you can't pitch with the intensity of Degrom and stay healthy, unless you are doing it in the smaller sample sizes of a relief pitcher.

This thread features references to Rivera, Smoltz and other closers while discussing de Gromm and his struggles to stay healthy. They're all independent of each other, which is what I'm saying.

Rivera didn't become a closer because of stress on his body as a starter, for example. It's apples to oranges.

Some interesting observations and very dead on points.

Johan - 2,025 IP
DeGrom - 1,325 IP

DeGrom is about to turn 35 and needs 700 innings to catch Johan, whose career was considered too short by the vast majority. That’s how brief DeGrom’s career is. He has never been close to the Hall.

As others have mentioned Lincecum is a good comparison, 3 years of lights out ball and gone.

Out, out brief candle.

For DeGrom it is the same spike of greatness but a slow burning end with lots of ashes along the way with the occassional flame

He’s like that old Cubs pitcher in Rookie of the Year. You have to wait till he’s got it back in him for one more game.

Some how I missed this. From over a month ago

Sad news for Degrom.

He had surgery and is out until approx August 2024

https://www.mlb.com/news/jacob-degro..._article-share

Another 2 full seasons (this and next) wiped off the board

congrats degrom
 

Rangers got Degrom and now he wins a worlds series..exactly what they paid for


he and Scherzer 20 years from now will be signing autos at the National for the 2023 championship and kids will wonder how the rangers could lose any games that year with 2 stud pitchers like that plus all the other ones..

Regardless if he helped or not he is now has a Championship under his belt and on his resumee.
IT would help if he gets healthy to get enough Games under his belt to have a chance at the HOF but his clock is ticking

I don't think they paid that much for 6 starts. He has basically nothing to do with winning the series.

you are 100% correct. But he gets a ring and he gets credit for being a champion on his resumee. Just like Sherzer did more but still did minimal and he also gets a ring and a championship

and it could help if he stays healthy enough to get enough games to potentially get into the HOF. As discussed in this thread he has a great resume but he has not for long enough and kept getting hurt for the last several years

It would not surprise me if DeGrom finally comes back and is down again within a month. I'd give Trout a little longer but another season ending injury would not surprise me at all. Both seem cursed which is a shame because both are supreme talents.

I agree 100%

Sad when such talent is lost/wasted do to injuries.