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-   -   ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=84599)

Archive 02-27-2007 10:46 PM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Zach S.</b><p><br /><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2781059" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2781059</a>

Archive 02-27-2007 11:03 PM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Damian Anderson</b><p>I posted a thread about what this card would go for if auctioned months ago. I think I said 5M or 2M but can't remember. I think I am biased now that it sold in the 2M range, but I think I said 5M. Can't find my post in when I do a search I can't find it, help!! I hope I said 2M and not 5M. Either way not long before it will be a 5M card IMOHP.<br /><br />Damian

Archive 02-27-2007 11:11 PM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Zach S.</b><p>I agree. It certainly doesn't show any trend in decreasing that's for sure.

Archive 02-27-2007 11:18 PM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Zach S.</b><p>Damian,<br /><br />I found the thread you were talking about.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1169093324/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1169093324/</a><br /><br />Zach S.

Archive 02-27-2007 11:24 PM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Glenn</b><p>Any chance the new owner will cross it over for an AUTH grade from SGC?

Archive 02-27-2007 11:34 PM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>If that were to happen, would PSA be on the hook for the $2.35 million purchase price??

Archive 02-27-2007 11:43 PM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>"This particular one was preserved in spectacular condition," said the PSA President.<br /><br />An interesting choice of double meaning word in my opinion, as the word 'preserved' conjures in my mind things in altered states like pickles, jams and embalmed bodies. Dracula preserved (and entombed, interestingly enough) his victims.

Archive 02-27-2007 11:54 PM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Damian Anderson</b><p>Thanks Zach for the leg work. I was pretty sure I predicted 5M and didn't want to admit. This thread is going to go miles and miles. Here we go!! Leon, try and make sure the parachute works!!! It's gonna be a dozzie!!<br /><br />Best Regards,<br />Damian

Archive 02-28-2007 03:53 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Come on...<br /><br />surely SOMEONE on here can tell us WHO BOUGHT IT???

Archive 02-28-2007 03:53 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>anthony</b><p>there go my chances at owning a psa 1...just bumped the price from 200k to 400k

Archive 02-28-2007 03:54 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>You mean it wasn't you? I was ready to offer congrats this morning. LOL<br /><br />Dave

Archive 02-28-2007 04:32 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Didn't the article state that SCP Auctions bought a piece of it? If true, it may be so that in the future Sotheby's would get a shot at reselling it.

Archive 02-28-2007 04:56 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Damian Anderson</b><p>Maybe it will be cut up into a hundred pieces and put into cards as an insert buy "Stupid Deck". They could also cut up the case and flip and put it into cards. Good idea!!<br /><br />Damian

Archive 02-28-2007 05:04 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>Since "alot" of folks believe this card to be trimmed...IF it were sent to SGC to crossover, would SGC slab it nrmt as well....or give it an authentic label? Would the prestige of the card be too overbearing to allow SGC to just stick it as authentic?

Archive 02-28-2007 05:05 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Marty Ogelvie</b><p>scary synopsis but probably not far from the truth with Upper Deck.<br><br>martyOgelvie<br />nyyankeecards.com

Archive 02-28-2007 05:12 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>Have no fear, the buyer is not about to crack the plastic on this card<br /> and re-submit to another Grading Co.<br /><br />It would be quite interesting if this occured; but, it never will.<br /><br />Unless, all the members of Net54 pool their $$$$ and buy this card.<br />Then, do you guys think all of us would arrive at a consensus to crack<br /> it and submit it to SGC ?

Archive 02-28-2007 05:39 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>If we pool our money, buy it, and cross it over to SGC, we better be prepared for the worst!

Archive 02-28-2007 05:41 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>I truely don't believe that SGC would have the ***** to do anything other than pretty much a direct crossover from what PSA has the card at. There is no way that "the card" of the hobby...the most famed individual speciman of "the card" would ever go into a SGC Authentic slab....no way.<br /><br /><br />Obviously I know nobody is going to try crossing it to begin with.

Archive 02-28-2007 05:48 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think SGC would return it to the owner as is, and tell him you probably don't want to go there. They have to treat it like any submission, and make an objective decision.

Archive 02-28-2007 05:54 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>And I believe....SGC would welcome the attention it would receive having the Wagner in a SGC 88 holder...

Archive 02-28-2007 05:56 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>This is a very provocative discussion, and I wonder which way they would go if they had any reservations whatsoever.<br /><br />Edited to add SGC has a strict buyback policy, and if they make an error by slabbing an altered card, and they missed the alteration, they agree to refund to the buyer the purchase price. Any further thoughts in light of this?

Archive 02-28-2007 07:22 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Glyn Parson</b><p>I had a discussion with Dave Forman, whom I have known for about 16-17 years, about this very card. He told me that their is not a grading company out there that would not slab this card. This leads me to believe SGC would be happy to grade the card.<br /><br />Edited to add: This was before Dave purchased SGC.<br />Also added: They said collector was from LA area, did Don Louchious buy it?

Archive 02-28-2007 07:40 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i had information a few months back that the card sold for over $2M to someone "outside of the hobby"...meaning NOT one of the big well known collectors...

Archive 02-28-2007 08:02 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>Why does there seem to be the assumption that the card would receive an "AUTH" from SGC?

Archive 02-28-2007 08:31 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>It wasn't me.<br /><br />(thats one less person on the list of possibles).<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Archive 02-28-2007 08:35 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>There are many people...as well as quite a few on this board that believe the card is trimmed...thats why I asked the hypothetical question about crossing it over for the SGC guys

Archive 02-28-2007 08:40 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>steve</b><p>My jeez ! 2.3+ Million for the best card in about a total population of about 60 known examples !!! Just goes to show that Demand, not supply, rules the card world. I have a couple Wagner's that are highest ever graded (Colgan's regular PSA 8 & Tin Top SGC 60), if auctioned maybe on a lucky day hit 2 Thousand, not 2 Million. Overall real good for the T206 market - keep your nice HOF'ers tucked away.

Archive 02-28-2007 08:43 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>Dave,<br />Thanks.<br /><br />So it's really just speculation?

Archive 02-28-2007 08:43 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>guys- we all know that NO ONE is ever going to crack this out of the PSA slab...<br /><br />i can't stand this "trimmed" debate...i have owned several very high-end, unaltered PSA T206 cards, that measure smaller than this wagner...this ongoing discussion is annoying.

Archive 02-28-2007 08:45 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>a fool and his money....will soon part.<br /><br />m.

Archive 02-28-2007 08:48 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I personally don't think it's trimmed....the rest of the card is in such great shape it's hard for me to believe that the corners of the card were rounded enough that someone decided to trim the card.

Archive 02-28-2007 08:54 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Colt McClelland</b><p>What strikes me is that, assuming Brian Seigel owned the card for approximately 7 years and paid $1.265M, he had an annualized return of about 13% by my calculation. That's obviously not bad. However, considering the risk and liquidity issues associated with this collectible, I don't think it can really be viewed as a home run from an investment perspective. I guess another way to look at it is to say that maybe the new owner is getting a very good buy at this price.<br /><br />I know that no one is really trying to say this was a home run investment here, but I just thought it was interesting to point out the actual return on investment. A gain of over $1M sounds great at first blush, and in reality it's not bad. However, there are certainly a lot of other investments that would have done much better over the last 7 years and probably with much less risk.<br /><br />Also, I didn't have time to go back and do all of the calculations, but my guess is that this 7 year period of ownership is among the lowest yielding periods of ownership for this card in terms of annualized return on investment.<br /><br />I'm not trying to start a debate of investing vs. collecting or anything like that. I just thought this was interesting to point out.<br /><br />

Archive 02-28-2007 09:08 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Leon</b><p>I believe the sentiment, from very long time hobby veterans close to this card, is that it was cut from a sheet much later than the mfg date. My personal opinion is that SGC would be reluctant to put a numerical grade on it...due to their guarantee. I could be wrong as this is only a guess. best regards

Archive 02-28-2007 09:17 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Colt,<br /><br />The scary aspect of all this is that it may actually lead to a slowdown in the market for T-206s. During the 7 years there were many T-206s that doubled in price, now that we find out that the Gretzky Wagner didn't even double, this should lead to slowing of appreciation for other T-206s.<br /><br />Peter

Archive 02-28-2007 09:19 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>This card was originally found on an intact "uncut" sheet in a FL flea market. There was also a Plank on the sheet - it is now in a PSA 8 holder as well. <br /><br />To make a long story short, these cards were cut from this sheet then ended up in Bill Mastro's hands (who bartered the price down b/c of the "wavy top border" of the Wagner), then Bill sold the Wagner and Plank to Copeland and the rest is history.

Archive 02-28-2007 09:19 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>While the yearly return may have only been 13%, I know the owner got tons of joy and publicity owning it, and that is worth something too. He was generous with his time, and took it to schools and shows and everywhere else to display it. If you had a bond that paid 13% a year (not a bad bond at that) you would stick it in the vault and never look at it again.

Archive 02-28-2007 09:24 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>An uncut sheet? sounds kinda cool. Any photos of this uncut sheet? Or any uncut t206s sheets in general?<br /><br />"many hobby veterans?" Who is considered a "hobby veteran?" Seems like an arbitrary title. Sounds like "Government Official X." Without any evidence of someone who actually saw it, such statements seem like speculation, which is ok. Don't get me wrong, not ripping, just wanted to understand why some people said what they said. And I have. Thank you <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <br />In the end, it doesn't matter much, because I will not be plunking down a million bucks for a baseball card.<br />Perhaps the Dorskind Group bought the card? We don't know how many members make up said group, they could have pooled their money! LOL.<br />

Archive 02-28-2007 09:24 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Scott, I would love to hear the florida flea market story....there has to be a story right? Who found it there? What did they pay for it? Why did they cut it up?

Archive 02-28-2007 09:30 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>Hell, I was banned from bidding in Mastro auctions for a while for talking about this! When I quit collecting, I cleaned out my filing cabinet and threw out the folders of info. I had on this card. I had all the names of people involved going back to the "find" at the flea market.<br /><br />I do know a couple of people who have probably as much, if not more, info. than I had on the card now. One is well known here - he contacted me to see what info. I had left a year or so ago. I also know that there is at least one individual, whom has been in contact with me over the past few years, who is doing a book on the card - should be interesting as he has done his homework (in fact, the other person who posts on here has done his homework as well and has a TON of info.). I will not post their names - they can if they want to.<br /><br />I am done with this subject!!!!

Archive 02-28-2007 09:31 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>I have ever heard such a detailed and confidently spoken accounting of this card's history........any reason Scott that such a complete picture is just now being offered, we've all dined on such meagre morsels in the dark for so many years?<br /><br />Daniel

Archive 02-28-2007 09:31 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>OK, so here is another couple of question; which would you rather have, the uncut sheet with Wagner and Plank or the cut cards? Which would be worth more, the sheet or the individual cards?<br /><br />Personally, I think an uncut sheet with both Wagner and Plank would be sooo cool if mounted properly and displayed on a wall but that is just me.<br /><br /><br />David

Archive 02-28-2007 09:32 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />On the bright side of all this is that the Gretzky Wagner card has reclaimed it's position as the most valuable piece of Baseball Memorabilia in existence. Surely, it is more valuable than the 3 million that McFarland paid for McGwire's home run ball.<br /><br />Peter

Archive 02-28-2007 09:42 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>peter- <br /><br />what are you talking about? the wagner almost exactly doubled...this is very good news for T206 collectors...

Archive 02-28-2007 09:48 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>MVSYNC,<br /><br />The Gretzky Wagner went up $1.1 million which is lots of money, but it did not double. However, go through your T-206 Hall of Famers in your collection, try to recall what the prices were back in the year 2000. My guess is that at least half of the HOFs doubled during that period of time. So there were lots of cards in the set that did better than the Wagner as an investment during the 7 years.<br /><br />Peter

Archive 02-28-2007 10:17 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p>I think with the card going for 2.35 million...while maybe not doubling is a huge jump. Obviously with the current market value for it, the Wagner can't keep doubling everytime it is sold...lord it would be selling for $20 million by 2015. Have to keep in perspective the amount of money we are talking about that it would take to "double" this card.

Archive 02-28-2007 10:17 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>peter- <br /><br />1.25 to 2.35 is close enough to "doubling" in my book...<br /><br />over the last 15 years it has gone up by a factor of 5!<br /><br />$451K ---&gt; $2.35M<br />

Archive 02-28-2007 10:24 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Anyone want to hazard a guess for the difference in value between this slabbed Honus and an uncut sheet with the Honus on it? Just curious...

Archive 02-28-2007 10:25 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Lordy!!! Now I'll never be able to sleep until I know the details of this Florida flea market deal.

Archive 02-28-2007 10:32 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Dan,<br /><br />Your a true historian, that's great. The rest of us are thinking about the bucks involved and your more interested in the historical route that the Gretzky Wagner traveled. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter

Archive 02-28-2007 10:34 AM

ESPN: Famous Honus Wagner card sells for record $2.35M
 
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i am torn about whether or not the uncut sheet would fetch more or less than the two seperate cards graded PSA 8 (wagner & plank)...?<br /><br />the uncut proof sheet from Halper only sold for $75,000, which i think was the deal of the century...BUT that says to me that peopel really prefer to have the actual card, not an uncut sheet...<br /><br />how much do the uncut lajoie goudey sheets fetch?


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