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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p><br />14:55 17Jul2007 MKW- UPDATE: Nation's Largest Cockfighting Bust -- 81 Defendants to Be Arraigned Tomorrow in Crawford County, Arkansas<br /><br /> VAN BUREN, AR, Jul 17 (MARKET WIRE) --<br /> 81 people will be federally charged tomorrow in Crawford County Circuit Court<br />in<br />connection with the nation's largest cockfighting raid. On May 19th, with<br />information provided by Last Chance for Animals Special Investigations Unit, 150<br />law enforcement personnel from federal, state and local law enforcement<br />agencies raided a crowded and popular cockfighting arena near Van Buren,<br />Arkansas.<br /> Charges will include operating a gambling house, criminal use of property or<br />laundering criminal proceeds, misdemeanor cruelty to animals and engaging in<br />a continuing criminal gang, organization or enterprise.<br /> Hayden Hise, head referee and author of the book, "Modern Day Cockfighting<br />Rules," and<br />the four property owners -- Kenneth Stanley Donelson, Cecelia Donelson, Michael<br />Ray Donelson and Andrea Donelson -- are among those to be charged. Kenneth<br />Donelson and Michael Ray Donelson are targets of a federal civil lawsuit that<br />seeks to seize 120 acres linked to the alleged illegal cockfighting ring.<br />LCA COCKFIGHTING PRESS CONFERENCE<br />Where: In Front Of The Crawford County Circuit Court - Division II<br /> 8 So 6th Street<br /> Van Buren, AR 72956<br />When: 9:30 AM, Wednesday, July 18th<br />Who: Midwest Representative, Special Investigations Unit,<br /> Last Chance for Animals<br />LCA would like to thank the Arkansas State Police, the Crawford County<br />Sheriffs department and the Crawford County District Attorney's office, as<br />well as the Arkansas State Drug Task Force, the U.S. Marshall, U.S. Customs,<br />The Office of Inspector General and the FBI.<br /> Last Chance for Animals (LCA), a national non-profit animal rights<br />organization<br />based in Los Angeles, has been active for almost 25 years. Founded and led by<br />animal expert, author and actor, Chris DeRose, LCA fights for the rights of<br />animals by conducting investigations that expose animal cruelty, launching<br />public awareness campaigns, pushing animal friendly legislation and helping<br />prosecute animal abusers. For more information, visit www.LCAnimal.org.<br /><br /><br /><br />Contact:<br />Lisa Beal<br />Campaigns Director<br />LCA (818) 681-3672<br />lisa@lcanimal.org<br /><br />Copyright 2007, Market Wire, All rights reserved.<br /><br />-0-<br />For Related News, Double Click on one of these codes:<br />[CNR] [MKW] [US] [LEN] <br /> <br />Tuesday, 17 July 2007 14:55:26<br />MKW [nMKW79152a] {EN}<br />ENDS

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Come on Jay, you can't tell me this is only slightly O/T. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter

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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>My family lines run deep in Van Buren. An outsider insulted a member of my family there, they formed a posse and ushered him out of town. Gotta love Arkansas <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Just what we need on a predominately male board, a thread about cock fighting <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>Wonder if they all had Falcon's jerseys on?

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Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>I wonder if Ron Mexico was there.

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Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>I wonder if Little Jerry was there.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Little Jerry had poor egg production! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>www.ronmexico.com

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Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p><i>"Little Jerry ran from here to Newman's in under 30 seconds."</i><br /><br />"Is that good?"<br /><br /><i>(shrugs)"I don't know."</i>

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Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>"I couldn't get there in time to stop it, but you should have seen Little Jerry, Jerry! Flappin' his wings and struttin' his stuff! He was peckin' and weavin' and bobbin' and talkin' trash! He didn't even have to touch him! The other rooster ran out of the ring. The whole fight lasted two seconds."

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>where Little Jerry Seinfeld can fight legally! The only two states left where cockfighting is legal are LA and VA.<br /><br />BTW - I always thought it was hypocritical of the Humane Society and these other animal rights activists to raid cockfighting arenas, b/c the first thing they do is gather up all the roosters and gas them to death (which takes five minutes and they are all thrown in a tank together and fight until the gas kills them). What a lot of people also don't realize is that it is a natural instinct for these game roosters to fight (they usually have to be seperated when they are only a couple months old to keep from killing one another). Also, if cockfighting is made illegal in every state, these beautiful birds will no longer exist, as it is too expensive to raise them seperately if one cannot fight them. I would say cockfighting is much more humane than a slaughter house. Who here has not eaten chicken? Well, chickens raised for food don't live to see their first birthday. At least chickens raised for cockfighting live until they are at least two years old, are taken great care for, and have the final say in their own demise. I would much rather have a chance fighting to death than certain death in a slaughter house! Cockfighting has been done by Presidents and derbies of cockfighting have even been held in the basement of the White House. This is simply an act of people who are ignorant to the sport condemning it and trying to tell others what they can or cannot do. PETA and other groups need to get a life and quit trying to ruin everyone else's.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Scott- that is an interesting take on it that I never thought of. Perhaps most humane of all is to keep a rooster as a house pet, and not kill it at all. However, you don't see that too often, especially for someone who lives in an apartment (I think my lease says something about no roosters allowed). <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />And Rob, that was a funny line from an otherwise weak episode.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I understand your points and we have talked about it. I can't get past the pictures of bloody birds killing each other. I have never brought this up publicly as I doubt anyone is perfect. I just can't condone it even after your argument for it.....And yes, I do eat chicken, beef and anything else that tastes good to me. SO I guess I am a money grubbing wh*** and hypocritical.....have a good one...

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Interesting the way you tied that last sentence into your post!

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Barry,<br /> I know you don't like the BIG red light, but I know you love the chicken.<br /><br /> Don't go Kenny... Don't Go.... Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS The FRIED chicken at my house is amazing....

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"At least chickens raised for cockfighting live until they are at least two years old, are taken great care for, and have the final say in their own demise."<br /><br />This is a joke, right? Is there a Candid Camera somewhere here? Saying that chickens who are forced to fight to the death have a 'final say in their own demise' is akin to saying that the 14 year olds that the Islamic fascists strap bombs onto also have a final say in how they die.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I love the scene where Newman eats broccoli: "Vile weed!"<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> That's not good for anybody.....

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Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />When I first heard that line about Little Jerry, I laughed so hard I cried. Just a few years before I had taken my dachshund to a local high school football field and was playing with him. I had my wife time him and me running a 50-yard dash. I think he did it in like 14 or 15 seconds, I don't remember exactly.<br /><br />The next day at work I was proudly telling a friend about Sam's time, and my friend repeated George's question. And, like Jerry, I shrugged and said I had no idea.<br /><br />To see that very scenario play out a few years later on TV's most popular program, I just about croaked.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>That's funny. And it's a typical Seinfeld observation. There are so many bits of information that are bandied about in daily life, and nobody really has any idea how to quantify them.

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Posted By: <b>anthony</b><p>O/T but along the same lines...<br /><br />Michael Vick was indicted today for raising pitbulls (or some other dog) for dog fighting

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Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>Ah, and that's our Ron Mexico.....

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Leon--I'de like to withdraw the post. I didn't know cockfighting involved chickens.

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Posted By: <b>anthony</b><p>eric, that shows how much i follow football...or is it soccer?? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>Mark,<br /><br />The reason it sticks in my head is that I remember the craze for Falcons jerseys with MEXICO across the back a couple years ago when Vick was accused of giving a woman an STD. <br /><br />He just can't seem to stay out of the spotlight.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>I was not joking. And, the chickens are NOT made to fight. If you read my post, you would know that one has to seperate these chickens when they are only a couple of months old. If not, they will kill each other. Actually, it is more humane to fight the chickens with steel spurs or a razor than to let them kill each other naturally - it is much quicker with the steel spurs, b/c they will fight all day if one gets loose and attacks another without them - that is when it gets bloody. <br /><br />Actually, Leon, there is not as much blood during a cockfight as you think - there is more blood in boxing, wrestling and the UFC than I have ever seen at a cockfight. Again, if cockfighting is not your cup of tea, that should be your right to choose in this supposed free country. I have probably told this before, but Abraham Lincoln was an avid cockfighter, as well as Thomas Jefferson. In fact, Abe got his nickname "Honest Abe" for being an honest referee at the cockfights - some of which were held in the basement of the White House!

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Some of you may not understand Scott's message but I am proud to say that it rings true for me. How many of us go through life living in undesireable conditions, working for scratch, waiting only for that final moment when we will be tossed into the final deep fryer to be remembered only as a breast, a neck and maybe a thigh or two? Not me. I'de rather live a life of excitement, one of danger, one where I am the master of my own fate. Risk, I live for it. Danger, I spit at it. Challenge me in an Ebay auction--I dare you!

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Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>Scott....that's a very interesting factoid about Lincoln. I never knew that.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Scott, here's a thought: keep the chickens separated! Or how about this thought: a spectacle in which people bet and make money on chickens killing each other is not a sport. There's a reason why cockfighting is outlawed: it's barbaric and inhuman.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Maybe the question to be asked here is, what does it say about a person who derives pleasure from watching animals rip each other apart?

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I had no idea that cock fighting was legal in some states. That's unbelievable to me. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>I know several on here who play poker, bet on Football and other sports, etc. As far as what does participating in cockfighting say for me, well, not much, as it is LEGAL in Virginia! Before you throw stones at me, there are others here who participate in ILLEGAL activities and have been arrested, found guilty and served time. You can check my criminal record - a traffic ticket or two is all you will find!<br /><br />For the record Jeff, I do keep the chickens seperated. That is where the expense comes in, along with all the vitamins and other things needed to care for the chickens. This is why people fight them and gamble on the chickens - to help recoup some of the money spent! If there was no financial incentive as in a cockfight, nobody would even care to raise these chickens, as they would be too hard to care for as a pet and they would probably become extinct due to this.<br /><br />Again, these are chickens - NOT people. Nobody is getting hurt. I know several of you came to Leon's defense stating his serving time for selling drugs was a "victimless crime". I know several who would beg to differ on that one, as they feel there are several victims when one sells drugs. In fact, SEVERAL people die each year from drug use. I have yet to see one person die from watching two roosters fight!<br /><br />BTW - in reference to the Mike Vick mention above, I don't condone dog fighting (and have never seen a dog fight). As far as I know, the dogs are actually forced to fight, where it is natural for game chickens to fight - God simply made them that way. Also, there are some rather famous people who attend the cockfights and fight chickens - including famous boxer Roy Jones Jr., whom I met in LA at a cockfight (he raises and fights his own chickens btw).<br /><br />Dan - Prostitution is legal in some states as well - that amazes me more than cockfighting being legal in some states. Also, cockfighting is the National Pastime in the Phillipines - I was just keeping on topic with that statement, since Basbeball is the National Pastime in America.<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I didn't bring up your personal life on the board. You did. I would appreciate it if you would leave my drug conviction from about 25 yrs ago out of it. I did something wrong and paid the price. Since then I have never raised birds to kill each other and have done a whole lot of good for society....Raising birds to kill each other....just not my cup of tea.....btw, bringing up my personal life is against Net54 rules too. I brought up my personal life a while ago and that is not against the rules. (I don't care if someone talks about themself)...You can do what you want to on your board but not on this one.. Once again kindly leave my personal life out of it......thanks again...

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Ahh..I see. Let's equate the fun of watching two chickens ripping each other apart with betting on football games. <br /><br />And since animals have no rights we can do whatever we want to them. Have sex with them? Torture them? Why not? They're not humans. How about black people? Remember when slavery was legal? Blacks were not thought of as human by plenty of people. Does that mean that it was morally right to enslave others? Scott, there's a reason that cockfighting is illegal across the country except, incredibly, in two states: it's amoral. And uncivilized. There's no good argument for it. And at least with Leon's crime people who buy drugs usually have a brain and the willpower to say no. Chickens tossed in a ring to slice each other to ribbons don't usually have the ability to Just Say No. <br /><br />And finally, why would you want to watch helpless animals kill each other? What joy could you possibly derive from such a thing?

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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>"Again, these are chickens - NOT people."<br /><br />Statement of the year. I agree with the person who said the "sport" is MUCH more telling about people derive money and enjoyment out of it than those so-called "natural instincts".

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Posted By: <b>anthony</b><p>scott, outside of the "low-blow", i'd agree with your statement although its not my cup of tea. in most of nevada prostitution is legal, florida, dog racing, horse racing, etc...its not for everyone but as usual on this board, everyone speaks their opinion...if its legal where you live or visit, i dont see a problem with it<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Randy Trierweiler</b><p>That was a low-blow Scott. I'm glad you don't know about mistakes I may have made 25-30 years ago.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Interesting that you would make the claims that cockfighting is "LEGAL" in Virginia and that without the financial incentive of gambling, people would not fight these birds.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1175339/" target="_new" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1175339/</a" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1175339/</a</a>><br /><br />The relevant line in the above story being:<br /><br /> "It is a misdemeanor in Virginia, and only then, if it is associated with gambling, authorities said."<br /><br />Ergo, gambling on cockfights in Virginia is ILLEGAL.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>or a vivid imagination with some of the things you just brought up! How did we go from cockfighting to beastiality and talking about African Americans (BTW - there are many African Americans who fight chickens - is that why you have issues with cockfighting Jeff?).<br /><br />And, again Jeff, you seem to insinuate that the chickens are made to fight - they are NOT. It is natural. Animals are NOT people. I don't recall anywhere in the Constitution where it is stated that animals have rights. People who die from drugs do have rights. It is amazing you can argue that someone selling drugs is not a bad person, however, someone who participates in cockfighting is! Maybe if you ever run into Roy Jones Jr. you can tell him how bad of a person he is for participating in cockfighting? Maybe you can tell the mother of someone who overdosed that the person who sold their child drugs was NOT immoral? Maybe you are the one with issues, and not myself? At least I am open and honest about what I do. Maybe you simply have some skeletons in your closet you don't want out? Usually the person who throws the first stone to judge someone is the one with some real issues!

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Scott, yeah, that's it: I hate blacks and therefore I hate cockfighting. Oh and that's it too: I have skeletons in my closet and that's why I hate cockfighting. You're pinned into a corner because you condone such a depraved 'sport' and your response is that I must have some serious issues to want to defend helpless creatures. Scott, with all respect, you haven't seen the ball since the kickoff on this one.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>What I did was wrong and I got punished for it. I don't do it anymore. Can you get over my past please? You are your own worst enemy.

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>I cannot fathom that human beings would allow animals to be hurt or kill each other for entertainment. Not sport. Entertainment. Worse yet to actually raise them to that end. I read the Michael Vick indictment in class tonight and about cried. It's horrible. And not just because it's dogs. Chickens, roosters - any animal. Same thing.<br /><br />The worst one to me - the worst - is the people that bowl with frozen turkeys at Thanksgiving. A living being died so these morons could use it as a bowling ball and drink beer and think it's all a great ol' time.<br /><br />Where's the humanity in that?<br /><br />And boxing/UFL etc are different. Those are adult human beings that are fully capable of reasoning and choice and have made one. Animals are different and "natural instincts" don't have a single thing to do with it. It's still exploitation of the misery and demise - mostly misery - of a sentinent being for our fleeting entertainment.<br /><br />We are humans. We have the capability to think and reason and respond accordingly. The food chain is one thing. Entertainment - akin to watching TV or playing volleyball in the back yard - is different. <br /><br />We should be better than that. Advanced society. Pffft.<br /><br />It makes me both sick and incredibly sad to think about it.<br /><br />Joann

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Leon, he can't get over your past because he requires it to punish you for disagreeing with his noble position on cockfighting. If he hadn't needed it he wouldn't have raised it. Very brave of him. Remember: it takes a brave man to hoot and holler while chickens slice each other to ribbons.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"I don't recall anywhere in the Constitution where it is stated that animals have rights."<br /><br />No, perhaps you should read the criminal codes of 49 states: animals have rights.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>I know exactly what went on here. The people from NC were found guilty, the people from VA were not prosecuted, b/c cockfighting is legal in VA. I think the article said something about it is NOT legal if associated with gambling. My best friend, who is an attorney, let me go through some of his VA law books. According to the VA code, cockfighting itself IS legal. Then you are referred to some other sections. It is illegal to charge an admission by the arena to see a cockfighting event - THAT is what is illegal. This article is simply wrong. I received a copy of the ruling from the VA Gamebird Breeders Association after this trial. The only persons actually charged with anything and found guilty were the people who owned the arena and charged admission and the people from NC who were participating. All the attorneys on here should be able to tell you that simply because a newspaper states someone was arrested for something doesn't mean they were found guilty. In fact, I have an article where one of the participants sued the Humane Society for $30k for killing his roosters after one of these raids.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Through some convoluted logic you determine that Jeff is a racist and Leon is a "bad person" and those are arguments defensive of cock fighting? The argument is lost when one engages in personal attacks. Despicable ones, at that.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>You kind of swayed around my contention that gambling on cockfights in Virginia is illegal.<br />Here's chapter and verse:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusva3_1_796_125.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusva3_1_796_125.htm</a><br /><br />If you gamble on cockfights in Virginia, you are committing a crime.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>Didn't you notice the ? following my statements in regards to Jeff. Jeff is the one who started talking race in his previous post. Also, if a lot of you don't condone cockfighting, that is fine. I happen to like it - that is my choice. If you want to judge me b/c I like cockfighting, that is fine as well. If you want to say I have no right to judge Leon b/c he sold drugs, yet judge me b/c I fight roosters, that shows your own hypocrosy. The people doing that would be their own worst enemies - not me. Again, even in the most states where cockfighting is illegal, it is a misdemeanor and only a felony in a handful of states. The last I checked, selling drugs is a felony in every state. So, while a lot of you think I am bad and people who sell drugs are not, it seems the law does not agree with you at least.<br /><br />The reason I posted at first in this thread was in my defense. I admit I was stupid and fell for the lure that was cast my way. However, most people here knew I participated in cockfighting anyway, as I have mentioned it several times. I should have known this WAAAAAAAAAAAY OT post was simply put here to get my response, then have people attack me for it!

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I think the zoo keeper should put the lions in with the tigers and let them fight.....after all it comes naturally to them.