National ramblings
 

It’s really odd this year reading all the giddy posts about the National. I’m not going mainly because of work scheduling.
I had a great time every time I went to the National, but hearing all the breathless posts here and on Twitter makes me realize that the whole fraud scandal enveloping corners of the hobby will pass over in like, I don’t know, a month. People are into collecting regardless of how much criminality and fraud permeates it. I feel like screaming at some people acting like little kids rushing to The Disneyland gates for the first time, “you realize the National is full of crooks and criminals and many many scammers of all stripes who will rip you off blind given half the chance, right?” But then I think how cool it is to see all that stuff and talk to the good people. Or who I think are the good people.
Oh well. Looking forward to next year and all the dire posts about no one will go to Atlantic City.

I'd rather just go to a Cubs game. The coolness of the stuff and the "good" people are overrated. I have 30 friends from High school and before. I don't need Salt of the Earth guys like Brent Mastro ramming an ass pounding down my throat. Not that fun, really.

It boils down that people in general are morons. It's why a guy like me with a 2.5 college GPA after 10 years, can make a killing out there. I have just 1/2 a brain and some integrity. It's so easy to shut cards off after this. If you don't stand for something in this life, shame on you.

Yes, it will blow over. As embarrassed as i am to admit this, it took me 40 years to realize people want to feel good and want to be sold the story and enjoy the story. They don’t want the truth. I have many theories why, but basically I believe the story and the myth allows them to escape and for whatever reason, if they are being scammed they would just rather not know.

I learned this in a class I took on sustainable businesses and farm to table restaurants which essentially dont exist. I sat there and listened to a restaurant owner spout off myth after myth and at the end a classmate says “I ate at your place and its the greatest fish I have ever had.” I almost interjected, but I am too tired to educate anymore. You think the baseball card industry is a fraud, the fish industry is a joke:

https://www.tampabay.com/projects/20...farm-to-fable/

But, people dont want to hear it. They want the story and to feel good about the experience. I have no idea why.....and it took 40 years for me to learn to just shut up and not educate, and l as much as I can, restrain myself.

Kinda like when my wife tells me I'm good looking. :D

I get why people want to resist the terribleness of bad actors pervading collecting. I'm one of them. I come here for an escape from all the other bullshit. But at the of the day I guess it's just the same bullshit in a different package.
There's a deep mythology around here as to who the bad guys are and who the saints are. It's almost like pro wrestling. If your a heel you are the worst. But say something about one of the saints . . .well, better have a hard hat on. REA runs a fantastic auction. But people talk about them and certain others like they are running Doctors Without Borders, Smile Train or Catholic Charities.

Gentlemen, all those people going to the National have no idea about this Slabgate scandal. Remember, like one percent of us collectors read the forums.

I texted like ten of my collector-friends about this scandal and they were shocked. These are guys who work like twelve-plus hours a day and then just pass out when they come home.

Oh, and I was also recently chatting on the phone with one of my good American friends (who got me hooked on baseball again). He is a member on this forum, but due to his new job, he hasn't read the posts on here for a while, and he was stunned when I told him what happened.

I’m not sure what you think should be the prevailing sentiment? Should everyone be depressed and boycott the entire hobby because there are some shady people doing shady stuff?

Of course I am pissed! That being said this is a hobby for me and most people here and it is essentially an escape from my stressful daily life. I always have and always will enjoy my cards, regardless of the fact that there are douche-bags in the world. Brent and others will not take my enjoyable hobby away from me as I would still collect if the cards had little to no value.

I think a lot of people are changing the way they collect because of this debacle and that is probably a good thing. Eventually this will “blow over” in some way but exactly what that means remains to be seen. Personally I would love for Brent and others to be persona non grata in the hobby and not be part of it but again time will tell.

For a lot of people the National Convention is their “going fishing with the guys” type of thing that has become a tradition and every year they go and do this and get to leave their cares behind. Why would they not go do their favorite thing because some people are a**holes?

As an elite card doctor was overheard saying at a show, I'm just making these guys what they want and couldn't otherwise have.

If you went to enough card shows before grading became popular, and looked at and handled enough raw cards, and saw the typical distribution of various conditions across various issues, you would wonder where the hell all these high end cards are coming from. Sure, some are legit. Many are legit. But a whole shitload are not.

I think you nailed it right here. You can't let a few bad people ruin the entire hobby for everyone. If you enjoy collecting, collect. Just have to do it with a little more scrutiny. Of course this scandal doesn't affect EVERY single area of the collecting world either. If this scandal bothers you that much that it makes you want to quit.... great. I'll stand behind you 100%. But if someone chooses to continue collecting despite the scandal, I think that is great too. What is confusing to me is members that claim they are no longer going to collect cards but continue to come to this forum and spew hatred for the hobby. If you aren't collecting cards anymore, I would think coming here would be a waste of time unless you are more interested in the drama than the actual cards themselves?

I'm not going for a number of reasons but card doctoring is not one of them. If I was going this year, it would be sad to think that some people I'd like to meet would not be there because of this card doctoring issue. Hopefully everyone relearns how to collect without a grading company telling you how to grade. And hopefully I see everyone next year in Atlantic City.

Extremely well said, Rhett! Your "glass-is-half-full" approach is most refreshing! Having retired almost 12 years ago, card collecting no longer serves as the escape from work pressures it once did. But, now days, card collecting is just as beneficial to me, as it keeps me much more mentally active than mindlessly vegetating in front of the TV would.

I began my working career as an auditor way back in 1965, and I quickly learned the importance of the adage, "trust, but verify," which I have attempted ever since to incorporate into all aspects of my life. While it's impossible or very difficult to verify many things, I am sure this approach has saved me from being scammed many times.

I strongly believe that our hobby will not only survive this scandal, but end up eventually being better because it happened. Hopefully, the bad guys will "get what's coming to them," and the good guys will have even greater success. I refuse to take the alternative, "glass-is-half-empty" approach!

LOL, They exist in reality better than those silly roof gardens. I have been to a few seminars on the fish also. All I can say is if it wasn't for all the government subsidies they are on the industry would not exist. Unless someone needed a business that lost insane amounts of cash.

I like how they show you multi million dollars worth of equipment that is needed so you can sell your product for tens of dollars.:D

I still say the card industry is way shadier even though the end consumers are seriously lied to in all 3 industries.

Well said Tim. And a few others. Still waiting for an email from you bnorth!

I had a tremendously great time at the National. I bought nothing today and was there for 12 hours enjoying catching up with friends and walking around and learning about all kinds of things. The hobby is what you make it. Today was awesome. And it would have been awesome had I bought some things. Despite all the doom and gloom there are a load of really good people in the hobby. If all you want is doom and gloom then that is all you will find. There is still a lot of good out there but if you aren’t looking for it I promise you won’t find it.

keep the updates a comin!

These days everything is a scam...

Sitting on the runway in Seattle headed to my first National after collecting for almost 50 years. I'm looking forward to it despite all of this drama and larceny. I hope to pick up some unusual items for my very narrow focus on the 71 Pirates. I am probably one of the only people who thinks a 1971 Pirates Wives cookbook is cool. Mazeroski's squirrel recipe looks tempting. With my odd taste and limited budget I'm fairly sure I wont fall prey to any nefarious characters. I do hope to meet a few other fellows who are strange as my family professes me to be. Im looking forward to this show perhaps I'm a fool and a lemming but I have been called worse.

Does it matter what others do? I know as far as for me I am free from feeling of 'missing out' on nice graded cards.

Not all of that stuff is a scam.
One vacation a few years ago, my family went to a seafood place that was on an inlet. Pretty cool even though I don't care much for fish. Watched a guy fishing from the parking lot catch a small shark.
The next table over ordered a certain fish, and was told they didn't have .. cue loud air horn and waiter saying "wait just a minute" and going out back. A fishing boat had just pulled in to the docklike thing they had out back. Waiter returns.. "we just got some in"

The U-Conn experimental farm also runs a dairy, and an ice cream shop.

Millions of dollars to sell a product for tens?
Ever seen the price of a really big printing press like the card companies use?

as the OP often does, a number of his points are based on assumptions made without fact. interesting that REA is mentioned. for those of you at the National, I recommend you stop at the three major auction house’s booths — REA, Heritage and Hunt.

ask them what they are doing and what they have done since this scandal and the one involving fake T206s came to light. ask for specifics, don’t ask how they “feel” about fraud in the hobby. ask what they are doing and what they have done. that’s what I did Wednesday. the contrast of the answers I received was eye opening.

my suggestion to the OP is to pick up a phone next week, call REA and ask to speak to Brian. find out what his role in helping to counteract fraud in the hobby. then maybe you will understand why REA is respected by many knowledgeable people who do more than just post “ramblings” on a chat board.

Hunt is one of the 3 major auction houses?

Ronnie - obviously reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Nothing in either of my messages said anything about REA being connected with fraud. I've spoken with Brian prob a dozen times and he seems like a honorable guy. Connecting random comments from posts and tying them together is pretty silly. My comment about REA is just that I'm not a cult member of them or anyone else. (As opposed to you.) From my vantage point they appear to be running a for profit business. I'm not lining up to worship them or anyone else selling stuff in the hobby. I don't get a hard on smelling their catalog and I certainly don't think they or any other AH are in this because of benevolence. Business people last time I checked. But if you want to create a little altar in your house to worship them go for it. Sounds kind of charming.

yes. I’m the one with the reading comprehension problem.

AHs such as REA, it seems to me, could definitely play a key role identifying who purchased cards out of their auction that were subsequently altered, as well as who consigned altered cards. Brent clearly bought much more than the WWG DiMaggio out of REA, for example. It's good to hear and not surprising that REA is helping in some capacity.

There are 3-4 Booths at the Natty with some killer 1970s Pirates stuff. Came very close to dropping $1,400 on a beautiful Richie Hebner G/U pullover knit jersey. But the seller wouldn’t budge, and I exercised some restraint in passing it over.

Of everything said in this thread, I agree with one thing the most... there are far more good people in the hobby than bad. Yes, the prices are high, but reconnecting with collector friends more than makes up for it.

Eating pizza and drinking beer with Mark right now, he's right, lots of great people here.

We just got seated at Giordano s :)

I love that place. One of my favorite spots to eat when I go back home. I heard they opened one in Vegas. I've been tempted to make the drive just to check it out.

The evening and the National have not disappointed. Totally agree about good people and will reiterate my earlier post. The hobby is what you make it. I really enjoy it and plan to continue to enjoy it.

It is a piece of cardboard. They is big money $$ at stake.

Spoon out a crease on the back and your psa 4 goes to a 7
how can they resist ? I do not understand HOW you people
do not understand this card restoration thing has been
going on since psa started grading cards! Funny how it took
until 2019 for old deals from 2016 to be found by the exposers!

Wake Up !!

Of course cards have been and always will be restored. And y'all
will still eat up the psa slabs Gobble Gobble I am a registry star!

PSA has done nothing wrong just shut up and keep collecting :>

Long before that Ace, now at least there is a chance a few cards might not pass

+1

Thanks for the lead. I spent 6 hours looking yesterday and walked away empty handed. I'll go find those booths today.

When in doubt hole punch it out..

Just got back to NYC. Spent all day Wednesday and Thursday at the national.

Crowds were huge, largest I’ve ever seen for the convention (first time I’ve been to Rosemont though). I didn’t bring enough cash, I had to go to the ATM once and PayPal people twice. I ran into two different dealers who only accepted cash. A ton of great deals for those willing to dig a bit.

Everyone seemed in high spirits, not a word about the recent scandal at the convention (though heard someone talk about it on the plane in).

I was very impressed with the Rosemont convention center complex. There were elevated tunnels connecting the center to all the hotels and parking garages.

Ten out of ten. Looking forward to next year.

Nice job passing on the $15.00 Hebner Fake Jersey

I think Shepeople are finally starting to figure the scam out. Unfortunately, Shepeople are just too stupid to look for and learn about it. Many many dopes out in this world that haven't finished high school. They are too stupid to seek out the info that has now finally been presented. Even I didn't want to believe it, but it is very true. I have never seen anyone so stupid over that registry. What a knee slapper.

I agree


Its completely BEYOND ME(AT)

When will the industry Crash ?? Heck will it ever crash ???

People don’t wanna believe it.......all logic says the boom will crash but logic and integrity have always been limited in this industry....
We shall see....

Wish I could have gone, just not this year.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I was there both days, as well. The Thursday crowd definitely seemed larger to me than past years and the aisles were very busy all day. I don't remember the National ever using the far back section of floor where the dealers were set up on red carpet. Maybe there were more dealers this year? Or maybe they just put down the red carpet, not sure. I don't remember it from 2 years ago.

The most noticeable 'flaw' I saw in those two days was the terrible lighting. There are some areas where dealers have very minimal overhead lighting, especially along the 1st aisle to the right after entering on the way over to the PSA pavilion. Other areas were ok, but the lights in the ceiling appear to be very old and dim. From memory, Cleveland's IX center was much brighter ( I think they might have had skylights, too).

I still had fun, either way.

Does Levi of 707 have a new, silly hat this year?

+1. Well said, Rhett
 

Btw, we missed you and your cards this week.

Tim

Not sure if it was new but certainly silly. Certainly not the worst hat in the room.

Hit up the national yesterday, pretty fun experience. Best part was being able to hold a E107 Matty and T206 Cobb Back. The guy selling the Matty had a bunch of E107's just stacked on each other like it was no big deal. Lots of crazy high prices on stuff you could find on ebay though. I can assure you that the PSA lines were not hindered from the trimming scandals at all.

Here is a little annoying detail of the National this year. I always get a NSCC pin at each National I go to. This being the 40th convention I thought it would be a pretty cool design. Come to find out the collectors pins sadly didn’t make it to the age of 40.

Huh?

That jersey was perfect. Just overpriced, IMO

I attended Wednesday night, all day Thursday and until about 3 p.m. on Friday.

I'm not really a high dollar purchaser - I've only spent more than $300 on two cards. Most of my higher value cards were acquired in the early 1980's. My 1950's Mantles, Mays and Aarons that I've had graded are generally in the PSA 3 or 4 range. A good chunk of my baseball want list is down to cards that I'm going to have to spend more than that on - 63 Rose, 54B Williams, 52T Mays along with a handful of first series 1950 Bowman stars and semi-stars that won't run that high but are still more than $20 cards. I looked at those cards at the show, but my heart (and mind) were never in to spending that kind of coin.

My show consisted primarily of $5 to $10 cards, mostly filling in holes in 1950's and 1960's football. Did a lot of $1 - $3 Post baseball and filled in some upgrades on 1954 through 1956 Topps commons. I'm in the process of moving my cards out of 40 year old plastic sheets in to new sheets and noting several cards I would like to upgrade and most of that was accomplished for $5 or less per card. Also picked up a handful of War Bulletin cards for my set and enjoyed flipping through the various non-sports cards at the show.

My 'big" purchases were a 52T Pafko in PSA 2.5 in a combo trade/cash deal with my local card shop, Indy Card Exchange. I spent $50 on a 1964 Kahns Arlen Bockhorn in a PSA 5.5 to finish off that sent and a little less than that on a 1954 Bowman George Blanda rookie raw to finish off that set (I acquired the last 23 cards at the show). Other than that, I don't think I spent more than $20 on a card. I managed to finish off the 1971 Topps coins set as well. Bought some supplies, including several used binders that will replace my 1970's recycled binders.

I enjoyed catching up with old friends JD and Stacy Heckathorn, hung out with the Indy Card Exchange guys. Had a nice conversation with Kevin Savage and the guys at this booth on Wednesday night about Kahn's basketball cards. Had a great conversation with another collector in line Friday morning. The social aspect was great.

I exhausted my mid three figures budget by the end of the day Thursday and made a ATM run Friday night to get a bit more out. I didn't spend that much more on Friday morning and by after lunch I noticed I was aimlessly wandering the floor. I figured my time would be better served getting an early start home. Drive took too long due to a crash related detour on I-65, followed by me deciding to explore the old road most of the way back to Indy.

I think they did a great job queueing people up on Thursday and Friday morning to keep the lobby open. Taking tickets instead of scanning them on Wednesday night speeded things up. Everything seemed to be focused on getting people in quickly - which is a huge plus. Concession were what should be expected at a convention - mediocre and overpriced. I ended up at the coffee shop in the Hyatt for a late lunch Thursday and bought a sandwich at Trader Joe's near my hotel for Friday.

As someone else noted, the corporate area in the middle of the floor made it hard to try to orderly walk and see each tables. The rows on the tables in the back on the red carpet were offset from the rest. I think I saw every table at least once, but I probably missed a few.

As always, tables that had nothing priced got a drive by from me, although I did stop to admire some of the stuff.

Just about every dealer that I spent $20 or more on gave me a discount of some kind without prompting. Whether it was down to the nearest $5 level or sometimes more.

No real negative experiences from me - other than my aching back and neck from the concrete and the backpack (that I often carried like a briefcase).

I won't make it to Atlantic City, but looking forward to the upcoming shows in Chicago and Cleveland.

Great report, sounds exciting! Thanks.