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-   -   CLCT going private (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=292608)

Peter_Spaeth 11-30-2020 07:48 AM

CLCT going private
 
https://seekingalpha.com/news/363996...m-buyout-offer

Aquarian Sports Cards 11-30-2020 07:56 AM

So any vestige of accountability just flew out the window. >sigh<

Republicaninmass 11-30-2020 07:56 AM

Buying at the top!

sportscardpete 11-30-2020 08:03 AM

Those are heavyweight investors. And I’m pretty sure they’re long-term valuation is double what they paid for (as shocking as it sounds).

Peter_Spaeth 11-30-2020 08:11 AM

It will be interesting to see if they retain management.

Rhotchkiss 11-30-2020 08:15 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Wow. I need to digest this. I hope management gets the boot. I also hope they change their f-ing motto

sando69 11-30-2020 08:19 AM

which motto is that, ryan-
"Never get [concerned about being] cheated"?

vintagewhitesox 11-30-2020 09:10 AM

Nat Turner is a very passionate collector and cares very much about the hobby. I think this is a possitive for the hobby. He's talked frequently about ideas to make PSA operate better.
He does like Orlando though, based on recent statements and this morning's press release.

I think this is a good day for the hobby. The Board of Directors did not care about our hobby, did not take stock options as payments, and let the company languish to the point that we are waiting 6-9 months for submissions.

iwantitiwinit 11-30-2020 09:16 AM

Cohen Private Ventures, assuming they are the same Cohen Private Ventures, LLC, they are owned by Steve Cohen owner of Point72 (formerly SAC Capital) and the New York Mets. It would be surprising to me if Mr. Cohen made an investment without performing a high level of due diligence and being satisfied with the results of that process.

Johnny630 11-30-2020 09:36 AM

Nat Turner is a very smart guy. I'm looking forward to his ownership of CLCT. I think this is going to be very good.

MattyC 11-30-2020 10:00 AM

Pretty big conflict of interest, with a collector able to print his own grades at will. I guess no different than it ever was in the TPG space from the history I’ve absorbed over the years.

MikeGarcia 11-30-2020 10:17 AM

Big No-N0
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC (Post 2040274)
Pretty big conflict of interest, with a collector able to print his own grades at will. I guess no different than it ever was in the TPG space from the history I’ve absorbed over the years.



...SEC forbids insider grading......

..

MattyC 11-30-2020 10:23 AM

Well played, Mike!

111gecko 11-30-2020 10:57 AM

You know they wouldn’t have spent that kind of money if they didn’t know they were in the clear for any type of accountability for the altered cards in their holders...are the bad guys going to walk as well??

irishdenny 11-30-2020 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2040232)

Bettar to Sell Cheap...
Than Enter a Cell Broke!

Johnny630 11-30-2020 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 111gecko (Post 2040300)
You know they wouldn’t have spent that kind of money if they didn’t know they were in the clear for any type of accountability for the altered cards in their holders...are the bad guys going to walk as well??


Yes

samosa4u 11-30-2020 11:18 AM

Can somebody tell me how I can reach out to Nat Turner? He needs to get PSA to start grading Star Co. basketball cards again! PSA has blacklisted these cards for way too long and everybody is sick of it! Come on, Nat, do the right thing!

CobbSpikedMe 11-30-2020 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samosa4u (Post 2040309)
Can somebody tell me how I can reach out to Nat Turner?


nat.turner@ gmail.com? :rolleyes::D



.

Lorewalker 11-30-2020 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC (Post 2040274)
Pretty big conflict of interest, with a collector able to print his own grades at will. I guess no different than it ever was in the TPG space from the history I’ve absorbed over the years.


I think ya meant observed but absorbed is more fitting. The whole collecting community has absorbed it big time. Millions of bad slabs. Never gonna change.

Rich Klein 11-30-2020 01:58 PM

We're discussing the world today; I will also say, I'm more fascinated by what 2023 will bring because I believe about 2 years in will be when some major personnel changes may just occur. That is just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

steve B 11-30-2020 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC (Post 2040274)
Pretty big conflict of interest, with a collector able to print his own grades at will. I guess no different than it ever was in the TPG space from the history I’ve absorbed over the years.

But there's the odd catch 22 in all this.

Everyone wants the cards graded by people who know about the cards..
But not by anyone that collects them..

That really shrinks the pool of potential graders.

rats60 11-30-2020 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 2040349)
But there's the odd catch 22 in all this.

Everyone wants the cards graded by people who know about the cards..
But not by anyone that collects them..

That really shrinks the pool of potential graders.

Why would we want a collector to grade our cards? We would never be able to get our reprint Cracker Jacks graded as authentic.

Nat Turner is well know collector of modern basketball cards. He has been trying to buy PSA for a while with the intention of improving the grading industry. Shouldn't we give him a chance before implying that he is unethical without any evidence?

slightlyrounded 11-30-2020 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60 (Post 2040361)
Why would we want a collector to grade our cards? We would never be able to get our reprint Cracker Jacks graded as authentic.

Nat Turner is well know collector of modern basketball cards. He has been trying to buy PSA for a while with the intention of improving the grading industry. Shouldn't we give him a chance before implying that he is unethical without any evidence?

This.

I can't think of a more promising turn for PSA than having Nat Turner involved: A young, passionate, tech-savvy collector with an equal respect for modern and vintage sides of the hobby. Also someone who has been vocal about PSA's shortcomings over the years.

Unfortunately, there's are a lot of legacy issues that the new owners will be forced to navigate and hopefully they'll stay accountable to the community while doing so - It's all we can ask for.

Bobbycee 11-30-2020 04:19 PM

HEY!! Another Nat Turner rebellion...

hcv123 11-30-2020 04:42 PM

Well said
 
While I believe "things can always get worse", I believe there is a lot more space to improve than to get worse! A passionate collector - a successful entrepreneurial investment team! I REALLY like the start of this! So much potential with the right changes! If done right - they will be light years ahead of the other grading companies!

Rich Klein 11-30-2020 06:36 PM

According to Darren Rovell's story: The average age of the current board is 73. Nat Truner is 34. I suspect the younger people who will be joining the board will be more amenable to whatever technological changes will occur.

https://www.actionnetwork.com/news/p...n=DarrenRovell

Rich

Aquarian Sports Cards 11-30-2020 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Klein (Post 2040443)
According to Darren Rovell's story: The average age of the current board is 73. Nat Truner is 34. I suspect the younger people who will be joining the board will be more amenable to whatever technological changes will occur.

https://www.actionnetwork.com/news/p...n=DarrenRovell

Rich

If the company is going private there need be no board.

jbsports33 11-30-2020 07:28 PM

I wish him the best and PSA, there is some conflict of interest with this. Hoping he will make the hobby better anyways, time will tell how this will go. At least this is interesting news for the hobby and something to talk about. We all know we need a little cardboard talk right now.

Jimmy

Peter_Spaeth 11-30-2020 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slightlyrounded (Post 2040381)
This.

I can't think of a more promising turn for PSA than having Nat Turner involved: A young, passionate, tech-savvy collector with an equal respect for modern and vintage sides of the hobby. Also someone who has been vocal about PSA's shortcomings over the years.

Unfortunately, there's are a lot of legacy issues that the new owners will be forced to navigate and hopefully they'll stay accountable to the community while doing so - It's all we can ask for.

Where was he vocal about PSA's shortcomings and what did he say?

BRoberts 11-30-2020 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards (Post 2040456)
If the company is going private there need be no board.

Lol. Many, many private companies have boards of directors. Especially ones with the value of a PSA.

Rich Klein 11-30-2020 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards (Post 2040456)
If the company is going private there need be no board.

Sometimes private companies do have advisory boards, so I bet there will be more help on this.

todeen 11-30-2020 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobbycee (Post 2040392)
HEY!! Another Nat Turner rebellion...

+1. Nice historical joke

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

AGuinness 11-30-2020 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 111gecko (Post 2040300)
You know they wouldn’t have spent that kind of money if they didn’t know they were in the clear for any type of accountability for the altered cards in their holders...are the bad guys going to walk as well??

Haven't they done so already? Again and again and again... for every Mastro, how many other shady people never get brought to justice? I'd guess a lot.

joshuanip 11-30-2020 10:05 PM

At first blush, their steady cash flow business and upside to market share reversion makes it a great candidate to stuff with mezzanine debt...sell off the higher tranches and retain the equity for a reipo down the road.

Financial engineering cookbook to meet hurdles and get that carry...

steve B 11-30-2020 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60 (Post 2040361)
Why would we want a collector to grade our cards? We would never be able to get our reprint Cracker Jacks graded as authentic.

Nat Turner is well know collector of modern basketball cards. He has been trying to buy PSA for a while with the intention of improving the grading industry. Shouldn't we give him a chance before implying that he is unethical without any evidence?

I was more replying to Mattys post.

I think it would be an additional challenge to have people totally unfamiliar with cards do the grading. A lot of the mainstream cards could be taught, but if you get outside the very common stuff you need an expert.

I see many people say that's a conflict, but it's pretty much unavoidable. In my other hobbies, the expertisers are almost always collectors or dealers. And they all get items certified if not graded. (Not much point grading a unique item) The companies generally just make sure the submitter isn't the one looking at it.
It can be difficult in some small niches. I have one thing that I haven't had expertised, and the best experts in that very narrow area already know of it and whose it is from the article about it.

BuzzD 12-01-2020 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2040471)
Where was he vocal about PSA's shortcomings and what did he say?

It would be no surprise if a significant dollar amount of the sale price was set aside in escrow to fund future liabilities and then released over time, say 5-10 yrs.

Aquarian Sports Cards 12-01-2020 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRoberts (Post 2040479)
Lol. Many, many private companies have boards of directors. Especially ones with the value of a PSA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Klein (Post 2040480)
Sometimes private companies do have advisory boards, so I bet there will be more help on this.

Not seeing how any of this contradicts what I said. A private company is not required to have a board. Yes many do have one, but it is not a legal requirement.

Peter_Spaeth 12-01-2020 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuzzD (Post 2040533)
It would be no surprise if a significant dollar amount of the sale price was set aside in escrow to fund future liabilities and then released over time, say 5-10 yrs.

In the purchase of a publicly held company? I doubt it.

swarmee 12-01-2020 09:12 AM

So, what happens to the Grade Guarantee? Still in force? Will it still apply to cards graded before the buyout?

Rich Klein 12-01-2020 09:24 AM

Dr. Beckett who kind of, sort of, has experience in running and then selling a company had some thoughts on his podcast this AM. Interesting perspective from someone who had been there. Plus about a week ago he ran a podcast with the person who was Beckett's CEO after he sold the company. I'd suggest listening to both. Not totally similar but some crossover

https://beckettinsights.podbean.com/e/356-psa-buyout/

sportscardpete 12-01-2020 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuanip (Post 2040507)
At first blush, their steady cash flow business and upside to market share reversion makes it a great candidate to stuff with mezzanine debt...sell off the higher tranches and retain the equity for a reipo down the road.

Financial engineering cookbook to meet hurdles and get that carry...

Oh, this will definitely be re-IPO'd. 3, 5 years? Think what they are working on needs to be done in a private setting. They'll see value from it in a few years.

BRoberts 12-01-2020 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards (Post 2040543)
If the company is going private there need be no board is required.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards (Post 2040543)
Not seeing how any of this contradicts what I said. A private company is not required to have a board. Yes many do have one, but it is not a legal requirement.

Fixed your post.

swarmee 12-01-2020 02:33 PM

Thinking about the vote of confidence in Joe Orlando... what were they going to say? We're buying the company and firing the top brass? Not bloody likely. Would make a whole lot of negative news for no reason.

Doesn't mean they think he's a long term fix. But he's a necessary evil during the transition time. Think of the new ownership group as the GM of a football team who keeps getting asked when the head coach is getting fired; it will happen in due time.

Peter_Spaeth 12-01-2020 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 2040713)
Thinking about the vote of confidence in Joe Orlando... what were they going to say? We're buying the company and firing the top brass? Not bloody likely. Would make a whole lot of negative news for no reason.

Doesn't mean they think he's a long term fix. But he's a necessary evil during the transition time. Think of the new ownership group as the GM of a football team who keeps getting asked when the head coach is getting fired; it will happen in due time.

Some of us dislike him because we think he favors certain submitters, doesn't do enough to stop doctored cards from getting through, and presides over a culture where dissent and questions are not tolerated. But if you're looking at this purely as a matter of dollars and cents, it's hard to deny that Joe has done a great job growing the PSA brand. The record revenues and backlogs attest to that, as does the fact that the scandal hasn't touched PSA. I'm not sure I would be thinking about replacing him.

Oscar_Stanage 12-01-2020 06:02 PM

Given Nat's background in technology integration, I expect his vision includes greatly reducing the human discretion element in card grading.

Steve Cohen's involvement tells me that he possibly sees an angle for collectibles as an asset class...

Investment/Change in this business is necessary and welcome.

and, nice to know some heavy hitters do not believe we are in a bubble.

Peter_Spaeth 01-20-2021 07:48 AM

In a stunning development, the merger agreement has been amended to increase the price from $75 per share to $92. Keep in mind CLCT traded as low as $15 or so earlier this year. What scandal?

sportscardpete 01-20-2021 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2057968)
In a stunning development, the merger agreement has been amended to increase the price from $75 per share to $92. Keep in mind CLCT traded as low as $15 or so earlier this year. What scandal?

They got a lot of push back on the $75 price. People were not happy.

Vintageismygame 01-20-2021 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2057968)
In a stunning development, the merger agreement has been amended to increase the price from $75 per share to $92. Keep in mind CLCT traded as low as $15 or so earlier this year. What scandal?

That price jump from $75 to $92 just netted me another $46,000.00. Thanks Nat!

Johnny630 01-20-2021 11:13 AM

It’s all about the Benjamin’s.....

Steve D 02-22-2021 04:25 PM

CU's sale has apparently been finalized.

Interesting to note that one of the investors in CU/PSA, is The Chernin Group, who also just bought Goldin Auctions. So now, they're going to be involved in running both the card grader, and the card seller/auctioneer. Conflict of Interest?????

Steve


https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...R9JM4oU_e_5ao8


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