Ebay seller returned cracked out slab
 

I sold a GIA slabbed card and buyer cracked it out to try to get a better grade.

He then asked to return claiming it wasn't authentic, but PSA said it was altered and never said it wasn't authentic.

I accidentally hit accepting return but didn't know at the time the card was cracked out.

The buyer said before it was sent to me on ebay it was no longer in the slab and Ebay said I still had to accept the return.

They even have a policy under conditions of returned item policy for Art and Collectibles. "item must not be removed from sealed packaging" but still made me accept the return.

Can you tell me what they recommend I can do since the card sold for over $5,000?

i have also been in close contact with Ebay high value department who said I had to accept the return even when card is crack out and advised it may not be the same card as sold since it no longer was in the slab which wasn't even returned to me.

Ebay claims after many many phone calls that GAI is not approved grading company and the buyer has the right to regrade but it didn't say that on "items must not be removed from a sealed package" policy listed under Art and Collectibles.

Has anyone had to accept a return after selling a slab card and buyer cracked it out?

Thank you for your comments

Ebay sucks. This is totally not right. You did nothing wrong and are going to wind up taking it on the chin due to Ebay's "The buyer is always right" philosophy.

Where does buyer live? If in USA, tell them you are reporting them to FBI fraud unit, file police reports for theft and don't forget to blast them on Blowout website. I would not let this go lightly. Also tell them you will take them to court...

Sometimes a little bit of pushback will help you get your item or money back.

Also recommend pushing yourself higher up the ebay food chain for help...

Dear Tim,

Thank you but a card was returned just cracked out so no proof of original, the police and USPS advised they don't handle these issues. I was thinking of writing a letter to Ebay CEO. I was wondering has anyone had this issue before and what the outcome was? Keep in mind I'm the seller.

The first thing to do, if the situation warrants it, is file a police report with your local department. They are the ones that are your first line of defense as that is where you pay taxes, you are in their jurisdiction, and so forth. The officer taking the report, and who probably takes lots of them, can give you a bit of procedural advice depending on the details. On the ebay stuff it sounds like you are up shi# creek :o without a paddle.

Dang, that is a bad situation. Sorry that it went south and good luck trying to get it resolved.

He already said the police refused to handle it.

I don't understand. You sold a GAI graded card. You did not get a GAI graded card back. How on earth can Ebay NOT side with you???

Just send it in to PSA with Bobby, it will pass eventually. PSA is GAI anyway...

That is total BS. If an item in not returned in the same condition as what you sent it in, then it's on the buyer.

Keep calling eBay until you get someone who understands your situation. Insist on speaking with a higher up. Keep calling until you are satisfied. Most people in customer service working for eBay are clueless on how things work. They do not look outside of the box.

Also, post the Buyers's username so he doesn't try to pull that with anybody else.

Good Luck!

I don't understand this:

"I accidentally hit accepting return but didn't know at the time the card was cracked out."

How was it an 'accident' to accept the return if you did not know the card had been cracked out?

You really are truly miserable and probably need to find a new hobby. One that makes you happier.

What was the time factor from sell date to return date? Imagine if everyone started doing this. The buyer could never lose only gain. Wtf?

Can the op clarify one thing. He stated that it was in a GAI slab ..What was the grade? My point would be if it had a number grade and PSA said it was altered then I think he should take the return. Unfortunately we live in a new world where cards in slabs with number grades are getting proved altered ALL THE TIME. And I am not a lawyer but it would be very difficult to convince a judge and or jury that it was fraud on buyer when the fact is you sold an altered card on ebay. And dont we want ebay to stand up for us when we buy altered cards on ebay?

Assuming you have the same card back and can sell it again, was the GAI slab really adding much value to it anyhow?

But if the cards value was affected by the number grade say a GAI 8 and is now PSA authentic then there is a big hit to cards value. And I understand if buyer did not try and cross over then card would not have lost value. But if this was a card altered by moser and sold by Brett originally and passed on a few times to an owner who did not know the pedigree. Then cracked for better grade and returned Altered, would anybody be siding with OP?

He asked for a return and later after I accepted the return advises
it was cracked out. Ebay high value team advised it didn’t
matter and they would stand by buyers for ebay money back policy.

Ebay sides with buyer per money back policy

No problem accepting same card in same slab but it was removed from slab.

You can keep card in slab for a crossover.

Reason for return was doesn’t seem authentic but it was
authentic.

About 1 week

Try PayPal. I have had success there when eBay was a dead end. Tell PayPal that the buyer broke the item and returned the pieces. Don't explain the whole grading thing, or GAI or PSA. The buyer broke the item, and literally returned the broken plastic pieces.

When you emailed the buyer, he admitted to breaking the item (reference the email to him saying he "cracked" the slab) and try to take that approach.

Best of luck.

Great question yes since they offered a number grade.

Paypal will NOT open a claim if ebay had one. Thank you for the idea
and no slab or plastic pieces were returned. Just a card in PSA open plastic sleve.

Seems very odd to me that eBay would deem it “ok” for a buyer to crack a card out of any TPG slab and then claim it’s in the “same condition” for a return. The buyer materially changed what that card was as based on it’s description in your listing. I would find a way to keep fighting that.


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He received the card, gave it to PSA, got the card back from PSA, and retuned it within one week after buying it from you?

How could eBay side with the buyer? He damaged the effing item! This makes no sense to me! Please post this idiot's username so I can block him.

So did PSA put it in a slab with grade: A?

I don't understand why PSA would render an opinion of authentic without slabbing it. And if that is the case, it would seem the card was over-represented in the first place.

Assuming it was the same card, but that can be verified by pictures of the card you sent & the card you received back.

Aaaaaaaand what card may this be???

I was thinking the same thing. :confused:

Dave,

Is the card the 1933 Goudey Gehrig GAI that sold last month? The dollar amount would explain the quick PSA turn around. Not many other high $$$ GAI cards been sold recently (a Ruth, but that one sold by same seller got positiive feedback).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1933-GOUDEY...p2047675.l2557

Again what about the fact that the card was not as advertised. It was in a case with a grade and later determined to be altered. I hate to think that I am in the minority that thinks if someone sells me an altered card I am not entitled to my money back. I can say 100% if I sold a card that was altered I would offer money back.
I completely understand and agree that the card should have stayed in its case when sent to PSA for crossover. Because it opens up the opportunity for fraud by sending back a different card. But that is not what happened. OP sold a card advertised as as graded (??? I dont know grade OP has not posted grade despite being asked to) and was later determined to be altered.
I also understand that since it is out of the case asking GAI to live up to it's grade is no longer possible. But fact is card was altered and buyer is entitled to refund. Just right thing to do.
Jonathan Sterling

Well that f**king sucks.

He sold a GAI graded card! Not a PSA/BGS/SGC graded card. Seems he did the right thing, as far as he knew. Now the original item is Damaged.

There is a difference, at least where I live, in police investigating something or taking a report of it. A report doesn't mean they are doing anything but taking a report to get it on record. They don't have to investigate a report if you tell them you don't need that. Yesterday, I had a Collin County Deputy come to my house to fill out an internet fraud, police report/incident report. They aren't going to investigate it and it's ok. Bank of America (my bank) told me I need to report it for the record. So I did. I spoke a good bit with the deputy about it. He was very accommodating. We love our local law enforcement. I just need a report filed, I told him. He said no problem. I can't imagine the local authorities telling the op he can't even file a report? It is good to file a report regardless. Haven't you ever watched Judge Judy? She is my hero and my write in vote for next president (not getting political, it's a joke).

The buyer was gambling. He wanted to turn a GAI card into a PSA goldmine. Now the seller doesn't even get the GAI graded card back. This is a horrible situation and makes me NEVER WANT TO SELL A GAI CARD ON EBAY!!!! The buyer has everything to gain and nothing to lose.

Very early GAI grade -- the ones that are supposed to be legit.

Question for the seller -- did you have either SGC or PSA review before you listed, at any point, and if not why not?

I'm thinking about sending a letter to Ebay CEO and let him know what is happening.

Ebay has closed the case from their end.

Sent back to me unslabbed by PSA since they said the card was altered and I guess the buyer didn't want it slabbed authentic

yes

This is getting interesting. It looks like the guy who won this card has a very big feedback. He might be well known in the hobby.

I'd trust the early GAI grade over the "PSA Goldmine" opinion any day of the week.

Seller got completely screwed, IMO. Once the buyer cracked it out, it should've been deemed non-returnable. Such a shame, and typical eBay to automatically side with the buyer. Their dumb "blanket policies" should not always apply in the collectibles arena. :mad:

John, You make a good point. The reason for the return was the card wasn't authentic which is no true it is authentic. The buyer paid lower then market value due to GAI holder and wanted to cross over to PSA. He could have gotten authentic if he wanted but didn't and he could have crossover in slab but again didn't. I bought the original GAI card on Ebay many years ago and even had a screenshot of the sale for Ebay and buyer to see since at one point he thought I alerted the card which isn't true. We all know buying an GAI card has its risks but I didn't think a card can be sold on ebay then slab open an a "card" returned. The question is can a buyer open a slab and then return an unslabbed card for any reason. Maybe another buyers gets SGC graded card on EBay not happy sends to PSA to get a higher grade but they don't grade higher and decides to return unslabed card.

What if this was an autographed T206 that had been authenticated by one of the TPGs, but was then broken out and resubmitted only to come back as 'likely not authentic'?

Would that change anything? Seems like the same scenario to me.

Ebay has a policy for art and collectibles that states a "items must not be removed from a sealed packaging" I find it interesting no one has stated they have returned a cracked open slab as a buyer or selling or even had or know anyone that had this happen too.

Whether the seller got screwed, to me, somewhat depends whether the card had previously been reviewed by PSA or SGC, which I've asked the OP but he hasn't answered yet.

PSA sent the card back to you?

The Moment He Cracked the Card form it's GAI Slab, He Owned the Card!
He Told PSA So when he Sent it to them Out of the Slab and w/o Your Permission as the 3rd party.
He then Lied to You and Ebay by Not Telling He Removed the Card From it's Sealed Package and He did this in order to get Ebay's Aid!

From PSA's Submission Form:

12. If any cards are being submitted for a third
party, Customer represents and warrants that
such third party has agreed and accepted this
Agreement and has signed a duplicate copy
hereof where indicated. Customer agrees to provide that third party-signed copy to PSA at anytime upon its request.

He Could of just left it in the Slab when he Sent it to PSA as a "Review",
i do imagine that the Buyer wanted to See What PSA thoughts were with the Card Out of the GAI Holder... Only because The Buyer Assumed that Every TPG had Seen the Card in it's GAI Slab Already!

Please tell us who "The Cracker" is?
I wouldn't want him to do this to another!

This is Just Wrong in So Many Ways...

PSA didn't slab the card and said it was altered but my guess is the buyer didn't want it slabbed unless given a number grade.

The buyer gave the card to PSA and they returned it unslabbed.

Buyer had PSA grade the card, and returned to me unslabbed since PSA didn't give a number grade as buyer wanted.

This sounds like a crime has been committed. I would definitely contact my local police and file a report to get a documentation path started. I feel very bad for you, as you did nothing wrong here. So sad that some people are dishonest and would even think of doing something like this. Good thing he lost out on the Ruth you sold by 1 bid, or you would have another similar problem. I hope proper restitution is made to you.

Did YOU previously review it, and if not why not?

Denny,

Thank you and I think you get it very clearly.

I didn't have it reviewed by PSA

Why not given how much more it would have been worth in a PSA or SGC slab?

What card was it?

We already had posters here say if damages arent worth more than 10,000..nobody would file a lawsuit...now people suggest to file a lawsuit on a 5,000 issue?

The person that bought the card could of always had PSA review it without breaking out the card

Double post

The OP sold an altered card. Now, assuming he got the same card back, he hasn't lost anything. The GAI holder was incorrect, the card should not have gotten a numeric grade.

It sounds like the OP bought a card that turned out to be altered, and now he wanted to pass the loss on to the next buyer.

The buyer returned the card cracked out of the previous holder

A GAI holder that gave a numeric grade to an altered card.

Can you please disclose the name of the buyer?

I feel the moment the buyer cracked it out of the GAI case, he altered (no pun intended) the item and thus should not be allowed to return it; at least the seller should not be forced to take the card back and give a refund.

That’s what I think. What I know is you are screwed, which sucks. Yet another reason why I don’t use eBay anymore.

I will try to go to a different police station where i live and see if I can at least as you said get a report for the record.

So if this is done on the 250k Namath card that was graded by PSA and it was cracked out and submitted to SGC and they said its authentic but altered. The buyers can return the card as well because after all the card was in a PSA holder that was given a numeric grade to an altered card?

This seems pretty obvious to me.

Sales ad description?
 

Could you post the original description of the card you used in your sales ad on eBay?

Because?

Post #30

Unless there was a different $250K Namath Card... Wasn't that card sold by Heritage (after it somehow jumped from a 7 to a 9?) How would eBay policies apply to that card? Unless you are asking if it was hypothetically re-listed on eBay after the Heritage sale, who would then be liable...

Wasn't the advent of TPG grading supposed to clear up these things, and clean up this hobby?

For a while it did I think, sort of. It did hurt some of the more egregious SCD ad trimmers.

Early GAI cards can be argued that they have generous grades, just like many early PSA grades. But I'd be surprised if Baker missed an alteration on a card of this magnitude. Possible? Sure.

I don't agree that a buyer should be able to "gamble" on someone else's dime. Once the card is broken out, it's now the property of the buyer, period. JMHO.

I see both sides to this issue, buyer paid good money for a certain condition/unaltered card which upon further review he/she did not receive; everyone is always saying buy the card and not the slab. When it returned altered thus it wasn’t as advertised and a refund is proper. Now if the buyer changed out the card that is a different story and a criminal act otherwise not so.

I think the question comes down to this. If I sell a card in a GAI slab, and don't say anything about it, am I implicitly warranting the card is unaltered? Or is the buyer taking the risk that it's altered, knowing it's in an inferior holder?

Me too. I thought PSAs turnaround times were way long and to have this buyer get the card back from them within a week with an opinion of Authentic sounds pretty fishy to me. Sounds like he switched the card and returned a different card and kept the high dollar one.

Cards worth this much have to be submitted at a high dollar, quick turnaround level. Plus he returned the card with the PSA rejection sticker, no?

You crack it, you own it..period. This is BS.

Bottom line. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

But getting it back inside a week? That's still pretty quick no?

If he included a PSA rejection sticker then I missed that above.

I thought he said it was returned in a PSA sleeve which implied to me it had the rejection sticker, but I could have misunderstood, the posts are not a model of clarity.

Name and/or eBay handle of the buyer, please

Who do you bank with? I think i would alert my bank that this is a fraud case. Because I imagine the money has moved out of PayPal and ebay is going to have to get the money from you. If you don't pay, and ebay tries to claim money that you have ID'd as fraudulent, that might push this into legal action where the bank might help represent you.

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