Net54baseball.com Forums

Net54baseball.com Forums (http://www.net54baseball.com/index.php)
-   Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present) (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=34)
-   -   1989 Fleer Randy Johnson #381 Marlboro Errors - 30 Years Later (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=263992)

jobiegermano 05-25-2020 09:41 PM

Is this just the black box?
 
I’m trying to determine which version of the 89 fleer RJ error I have. It mostly looks like the black box I guess, however there are two little circles that I haven’t seen in other examples. Here are pictures and I tried to get clear and close. The circles look to be part of the print. What does anyone here think? Is this version worth anything?

https://imgur.com/a/vZNyWMC

Thank you!

mrdbrooks77 05-25-2020 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jobiegermano (Post 1984306)
I’m trying to determine which version of the 89 fleer RJ error I have. It mostly looks like the black box I guess, however there are two little circles that I haven’t seen in other examples. Here are pictures and I tried to get clear and close. The circles look to be part of the print. What does anyone here think? Is this version worth anything?



https://imgur.com/a/vZNyWMC



Thank you!

Looks like the corrected version

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

bnorth 05-26-2020 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jobiegermano (Post 1984306)
I’m trying to determine which version of the 89 fleer RJ error I have. It mostly looks like the black box I guess, however there are two little circles that I haven’t seen in other examples. Here are pictures and I tried to get clear and close. The circles look to be part of the print. What does anyone here think? Is this version worth anything?

https://imgur.com/a/vZNyWMC

Thank you!

It is the corrected version with 2 "fish eye" print spots/defects.

Cool print error card. When I was super collecting the 89 Fleer Johnson cards I would look for and buy cards like that.

As for value it is worth slightly less than a card without the print spots.

jobiegermano 05-26-2020 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrdbrooks77 (Post 1984312)
Looks like the corrected version

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Thank you!

jobiegermano 05-26-2020 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1984341)
It is the corrected version with 2 "fish eye" print spots/defects.

Cool print error card. When I was super collecting the 89 Fleer Johnson cards I would look for and buy cards like that.

As for value it is worth slightly less than a card without the print spots.

Thank you for the reply and estimation!

Statfreak101 06-02-2020 08:42 AM

I pulled one the other day out of a rack pack that was the blacked out version, but had a red print dot inside the black box.

A 1/1 from what I have seen!

https://ibb.co/k8DzCzm

bnorth 06-02-2020 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1986577)
I pulled one the other day out of a rack pack that was the blacked out version, but had a red print dot inside the black box.

A 1/1 from what I have seen!

Post a picture. I have several hundred print flaws.

Yours could be a super dark red tint with the "bubble" spot showing up as red.

ALR-bishop 06-02-2020 10:46 AM

" a super dark red tint with a 'bubble' spot".....is this a great hobby or what

Statfreak101 06-03-2020 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1986579)
Post a picture. I have several hundred print flaws.

Yours could be a super dark red tint with the "bubble" spot showing up as red.

https://ibb.co/ZSB6fgp

jacksoncoupage 06-03-2020 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1986577)
I pulled one the other day out of a rack pack that was the blacked out version, but had a red print dot inside the black box.

A 1/1 from what I have seen!

Easy money! I wouldn’t take a penny under $1K for it.

Hatorade 06-04-2020 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 1986606)
" a super dark red tint with a 'bubble' spot".....is this a great hobby or what

The best part is that with the way Fleer edited the Marlboro variation cards, that description probably isn’t specific enough. In my experience there are at least two separate cards that fit that description that look very similar, but they are different cards.

Statfreak101 06-04-2020 02:34 PM

OK guys, so I will put this out to the community. Doing some hard research, spending a good amount of $$ to do so.

What is the earliest run of 1989 Fleer (5 digit code) that you have seen, come across, opened yourself, seen someone open, etc.? If so, what version of the Johnson card did you pull?

bnorth 06-04-2020 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1987194)
OK guys, so I will put this out to the community. Doing some hard research, spending a good amount of $$ to do so.

What is the earliest run of 1989 Fleer (5 digit code) that you have seen, come across, opened yourself, seen someone open, etc.? If so, what version of the Johnson card did you pull?

If anybody knew the answer to your question of what case # has the clear Marlboro sign they would have already bought them.:)

Statfreak101 06-04-2020 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1987203)
If anybody knew the answer to your question of what case # has the clear Marlboro sign they would have already bought them.:)

There is some truth to that, yes.

The other part being, they have to be available and you can find them! :)

HasselhoffsCheeseburger 06-09-2020 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1987194)
OK guys, so I will put this out to the community. Doing some hard research, spending a good amount of $$ to do so.

What is the earliest run of 1989 Fleer (5 digit code) that you have seen, come across, opened yourself, seen someone open, etc.? If so, what version of the Johnson card did you pull?

I would think if someone knew this they wouldn't be sharing it on a message board.

Arthur

ALR-bishop 06-09-2020 01:53 PM

Unless they were drinking a lot while trying to eat a cheeseburger

HasselhoffsCheeseburger 06-09-2020 03:32 PM

The Hoff doesn't know jack shat about '89 Fleer case codes. Just trust me on that.

Arthur

Statfreak101 06-10-2020 09:54 AM

Was finally able to link a picture of my rare 1/1 Red Dot Randy error card. :)

Here is the link:

https://ibb.co/k8DzCzm

bnorth 06-10-2020 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1988848)
Was finally able to link a picture of my rare 1/1 Red Dot Randy error card. :)

Here is the link:

https://ibb.co/k8DzCzm

That is a print spot on a corrected version. If counting print spots I have 100s of 1/1 Randy Johnson and Bill Ripken 89 Fleer error cards.:)

Statfreak101 06-10-2020 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1988903)
That is a print spot on a corrected version. If counting print spots I have 100s of 1/1 Randy Johnson and Bill Ripken 89 Fleer error cards.:)

Yeah, I knew that. Was just going along with it. :)

Statfreak101 06-10-2020 07:37 PM

Going through some of my Johnson inventory...

Here are two different "green tint" versions. The one is hard to pick up, but its more shoddy camera work & lighting than anything.

The one thing I noticed. In the one, the M in Marlboro is visible...in the other, it isnt. I will try to get a better picture.

https://ibb.co/g7hsL9s
https://ibb.co/bssh3yx
https://ibb.co/dBXbqd3
https://ibb.co/jh2MPKS

bnorth 06-10-2020 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1989038)
Going through some of my Johnson inventory...

Here are two different "green tint" versions. The one is hard to pick up, but its more shoddy camera work & lighting than anything.

The one thing I noticed. In the one, the M in Marlboro is visible...in the other, it isnt. I will try to get a better picture.

https://ibb.co/g7hsL9s
https://ibb.co/bssh3yx
https://ibb.co/dBXbqd3
https://ibb.co/jh2MPKS

I suck at taking pictures and scanning the different versions of the Johnson card. There is also a version that you can clearly see the top of the L and B.

jacksoncoupage 06-10-2020 08:32 PM

To add to the insanity, I’m convinced that a new variation of the green “scribble” card exists with a very bright, almost neon green “tint” over the white area of the sign. Almost all green scribble cards (and I’ve noted two very distinct shapes of scribble) have a darker green tint/masking to them.

Hatorade 06-10-2020 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1987194)
OK guys, so I will put this out to the community. Doing some hard research, spending a good amount of $$ to do so.

What is the earliest run of 1989 Fleer (5 digit code) that you have seen, come across, opened yourself, seen someone open, etc.? If so, what version of the Johnson card did you pull?

I’ve seen another post where someone mentioned mid to later November as the earliest case number they had seen. I tried to find it the other day, but there are lots of the past threads regarding these cards on different sites and I couldn’t locate it. I have a case from Dec 15th that has the variations in it still.

The error cases/boxes have gone way up in price in just a few years. If you’re going that route I can see spending a good amount of $$. The boxes I’ve opened from this case and other cases contained several different versions, but buying singles from people on EBAy I’ve noticed that some cases appear to have several very similar cards grouped together in them sometimes.

Hatorade 06-10-2020 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1989038)
Going through some of my Johnson inventory...

Here are two different "green tint" versions. The one is hard to pick up, but its more shoddy camera work & lighting than anything.

The one thing I noticed. In the one, the M in Marlboro is visible...in the other, it isnt. I will try to get a better picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage (Post 1989063)
To add to the insanity, I’m convinced that a new variation of the green “scribble” card exists with a very bright, almost neon green “tint” over the white area of the sign. Almost all green scribble cards (and I’ve noted two very distinct shapes of scribble) have a darker green tint/masking to them.

You are both correct. There are two versions of “green scribbles”. We ended up calling them “fish” because of the red tinting around the letters in Marlboro has a fish shape. Both versions have lightly tinted cards all the way to up to cards so heavily tinted they look like other “box” versions. I put 37 cards of one of the “fish” versions together into an album on Flickr. I sorted them as best as I could from lightest to darkest(it’s hard). I don’t have it exactly correct, but you can watch the cards via slide show on there that go from one card to the next and progressively get darker and more tinting. What do you think?


https://www.flickr.com/photos/rjmarl...57675341931257

jacksoncoupage 06-11-2020 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatorade (Post 1989104)
You are both correct. There are two versions of “green scribbles”. We ended up calling them “fish” because of the red tinting around the letters in Marlboro has a fish shape. Both versions have lightly tinted cards all the way to up to cards so heavily tinted they look like other “box” versions. I put 37 cards of one of the “fish” versions together into an album on Flickr. I sorted them as best as I could from lightest to darkest(it’s hard). I don’t have it exactly correct, but you can watch the cards via slide show on there that go from one card to the next and progressively get darker and more tinting. What do you think?


https://www.flickr.com/photos/rjmarl...57675341931257

Thank you the link. And scanning all of these!

Do you have a link for the other green scribble version? The 36 pics show variations in darkness, as you mentioned, but all seem to be the same “shape” of blackout ( top of LB visible ). There is another shape, more like a deflated pyramid that includes the top of the LB in Marlboro as a sort of peak to the black coverup shape.

Statfreak101 06-11-2020 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage (Post 1989218)
Thank you the link. And scanning all of these!

Do you have a link for the other green scribble version? The 36 pics show variations in darkness, as you mentioned, but all seem to be the same “shape” of blackout ( top of LB visible ). There is another shape, more like a deflated pyramid that includes the top of the LB in Marlboro as a sort of peak to the black coverup shape.

Any chance you are referring to the below version?

https://ibb.co/68nQfkF
https://ibb.co/MP28XWF

bnorth 06-11-2020 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1989246)
Any chance you are referring to the below version?

https://ibb.co/68nQfkF
https://ibb.co/MP28XWF

My pics/scans all turn out like those and I can't see them very well.

There are at least 3 versions I own. There is the blob version that covers everything on Marlboro. Then there is the squiggly bar version that you can see the tops of the L and B. Then there is a version with both the blob in a lighter black with the squiggly bar in a darker black.

I have not looked at them any closer than those 3 main versions.

Hatorade 06-11-2020 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage (Post 1989218)
Thank you the link. And scanning all of these!

Do you have a link for the other green scribble version? The 36 pics show variations in darkness, as you mentioned, but all seem to be the same “shape” of blackout ( top of LB visible ). There is another shape, more like a deflated pyramid that includes the top of the LB in Marlboro as a sort of peak to the black coverup shape.

Yeah that was just the album for the red circle version of the fish. I’ll try to get the no red circle version posted soon that you’re referring to. I haven’t worked on the cards for a little while, but I think I have most of the images of the other fish version already mostly sorted and I’ll just need to upload them. It will still take me a little while as I have to crop the images on Flickr.

Just looking at the first few images of some of the non red circle versions of the fish, I think I found some of the cards you mentioned last night. The red scribbling around the letters in Marlboro is vibrant red and the green tinting is very light and an almost neon color mixed with the white background of the ad. You can see the rope in the Marlboro Man’s hand the green tinting is so light in one of the cards. I’ll post a link on here when it’s up.

Hatorade 06-12-2020 07:34 PM

35 images in the No RC Album. I definitely have a few lined up in the wrong order of the sequence. I’m also not convinced these cards are only one version either, but these are the other fish shape that doesn’t have the red circle. This version of the fish also has lighter to darker spectrum situation occurring to them.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rjmarl...57714668577038

bnorth 06-12-2020 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatorade (Post 1989780)
35 images in the No RC Album. I definitely have a few lined up in the wrong order of the sequence. I’m also not convinced these cards are only one version either, but these are the other fish shape that doesn’t have the red circle. This version of the fish also has lighter to darker spectrum situation occurring to them.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rjmarl...57714668577038

Great green scribble cards. I remember when there were considered extremely rare. Even on eBay you could only find one listed about once a month at the most.

Hatorade 06-12-2020 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1989788)
Great green scribble cards. I remember when there were considered extremely rare. Even on eBay you could only find one listed about once a month at the most.

Thanks Ben. They do seem to be a little more prevalent than once considered, but overall I would say they are still pretty rare, even amongst the different Marlboro versions. You still can’t find them in much volume these days.

jacksoncoupage 06-12-2020 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatorade (Post 1989780)
35 images in the No RC Album. I definitely have a few lined up in the wrong order of the sequence. I’m also not convinced these cards are only one version either, but these are the other fish shape that doesn’t have the red circle. This version of the fish also has lighter to darker spectrum situation occurring to them.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rjmarl...57714668577038

Yes, the ones at the beginning of this album are exactly what I was referring to. Some are quite vibrant! And I agree, I think there may be variations to the blacked out area/shape, kind of looks like here are different peaks and bumps along the top.

jacksoncoupage 06-12-2020 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatorade (Post 1989800)
Thanks Ben. They do seem to be a little more prevalent than once considered, but overall I would say they are still pretty rare, even amongst the different Marlboro versions. You still can’t find them in much volume these days.

Knowing that this card went through all of the changes that it did, arguably 12, minimum, all within 5-6 weeks of production time (January cases have the FF Ripken and full correction Randy), tells me that some versions must be even more limited than others. I stand by the bright green/scribble version and the visible Marlboro with green tint as two examples of rarer types.

bnorth 06-12-2020 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatorade (Post 1989800)
Thanks Ben. They do seem to be a little more prevalent than once considered, but overall I would say they are still pretty rare, even amongst the different Marlboro versions. You still can’t find them in much volume these days.

That is because a few of us own most of them.:)

Hatorade 06-12-2020 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage (Post 1989803)
Knowing that this card went through all of the changes that it did, arguably 12, minimum, all within 5-6 weeks of production time (January cases have the FF Ripken and full correction Randy), tells me that some versions must be even more limited than others. I stand by the bright green/scribble version and the visible Marlboro with green tint as two examples of rarer types.

Those are some very good points. Fleer sure needed lots of different attempts at covering the ad over that relatively short time frame. Any lightly tinted green card is very hard to track down. There are actually a few different green versions that are lightly tinted too. Most green cards though have darker tinting.

The fact that only 2 clear versions have shown up after 30 plus years makes me think they are the hardest card to find from the 80s. Seeing Steve’s clear card recently confirmed for me that the clear versions are lightly tinted blue cards and tracking down the blue cards with more tint is nearly impossible too. I’m definitely looking forward to any future discoveries people have with those cards and finding out more about them.

steve5838 06-13-2020 09:48 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Wow, Hatorade, you have an amazing collection. Thank you for sharing your pictures.

I agree that the clear version and blue tint are closely related. The blue bar intersecting RJ's head seems to have more overlap with the vertical grey bars above on these versions (and some of the clearer green versions).
I've wondered whether the first run(s) at the "green plant" produced the clear version. It seems they noticed the clear sign relatively quickly in the production process and made an initial "fix" of adding blue tint to the sign area. Since this didn't dull the clarity of the Marlboro letters (and perhaps drew even more attention to the sign) they moved on to "fix" the "fix" pretty quickly by apparently mixing yellow into the blue and then varying the proportions of yellow and blue to get darker greens. Of course I'm just guessing and others probably have better theories on this. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if another completely clear example is out there somewhere without the blue bar overlap apparent in the two known examples, perhaps coming from the "red plant". Steve

Statfreak101 06-14-2020 07:35 PM

Just opened the earliest box I've had the pleasure of opening tonight, from a sealed case. Without revealing too much, this date would definitely fit the "mid November" criteria.

This is what the result was...

https://ibb.co/2vk429G
https://ibb.co/2SY7Kqg
https://ibb.co/McnpgBX
https://ibb.co/WGNS0y3
https://ibb.co/DpNNb69

steve5838 06-15-2020 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1990438)
Just opened the earliest box I've had the pleasure of opening tonight, from a sealed case. Without revealing too much, this date would definitely fit the "mid November" criteria.

This is what the result was...

https://ibb.co/2vk429G
https://ibb.co/2SY7Kqg
https://ibb.co/McnpgBX
https://ibb.co/WGNS0y3
https://ibb.co/DpNNb69

Congrats on the pickup. These look like some nice cards. I saw a reasonably priced sealed case of 83272 on eBay a couple months ago but missed out (it apparently sold in 20 minutes). Steve

jp1216 06-15-2020 05:52 AM

83272 (the 327th day of 1988) would be November 22nd. That is about the earliest date I've seen. 100% sure I haven't seen anything in the 831xx range.
The latest codes I've seen FWIW are around 917xx. Prices have certainly gone up in the past few years. You couldn't give these away 15 years ago.

OT - weren't there other '89 Fleer with Marlboro ads in the background?

Statfreak101 06-15-2020 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve5838 (Post 1990515)
Congrats on the pickup. These look like some nice cards. I saw a reasonably priced sealed case of 83272 on eBay a couple months ago but missed out (it apparently sold in 20 minutes). Steve

Yep - I know the individual who bought this case.

They got an absolute steal on this case, too.

Statfreak101 06-15-2020 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp1216 (Post 1990526)
83272 (the 327th day of 1988) would be November 22nd. That is about the earliest date I've seen. 100% sure I haven't seen anything in the 831xx range.
The latest codes I've seen FWIW are around 917xx. Prices have certainly gone up in the past few years. You couldn't give these away 15 years ago.

OT - weren't there other '89 Fleer with Marlboro ads in the background?

There is earlier...:)

bnorth 06-15-2020 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp1216 (Post 1990526)
83272 (the 327th day of 1988) would be November 22nd. That is about the earliest date I've seen. 100% sure I haven't seen anything in the 831xx range.
The latest codes I've seen FWIW are around 917xx. Prices have certainly gone up in the past few years. You couldn't give these away 15 years ago.

OT - weren't there other '89 Fleer with Marlboro ads in the background?

I can't remember the exact number, I think it is 4 or 5 other players with a Marlboro sign in the background.

bnorth 06-15-2020 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1990438)
Just opened the earliest box I've had the pleasure of opening tonight, from a sealed case. Without revealing too much, this date would definitely fit the "mid November" criteria.

This is what the result was...

https://ibb.co/2vk429G
https://ibb.co/2SY7Kqg
https://ibb.co/McnpgBX
https://ibb.co/WGNS0y3
https://ibb.co/DpNNb69

Nice cards.

Statfreak101 06-15-2020 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1990565)
Nice cards.

Thanks - it is the same card, but wanted to give everyone a different look/angle.

This one does have the "pube" too, I believe.

jp1216 06-15-2020 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1990564)
I can't remember the exact number, I think it is 4 or 5 other players with a Marlboro sign in the background.

I'm sure it's been discussed - but why was only the Johnson card targeted for correction? Is there a story behind it?

bnorth 06-15-2020 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp1216 (Post 1990651)
I'm sure it's been discussed - but why was only the Johnson card targeted for correction? Is there a story behind it?

The only story I have heard is that Randy is very religious and didn't want the advertisement displayed. How true that is I have no idea.

Statfreak101 06-15-2020 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1990655)
The only story I have heard is that Randy is very religious and didn't want the advertisement displayed. How true that is I have no idea.

Yes, I have heard this as well - that he didn't like the sign, or being in a picture with that sign.

With that said - the million dollar question. Why the heck wasn't the black box/corrected version just done right away?

bnorth 06-15-2020 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statfreak101 (Post 1990684)
Yes, I have heard this as well - that he didn't like the sign, or being in a picture with that sign.

With that said - the million dollar question. Why the heck wasn't the black box/corrected version just done right away?

As someone who was collecting back then the answer in my opinion was cash. Error cards were a big thing at that time and sold for huge premiums. Higher sale price on individual cards leads to more new unopened product selling.

jacksoncoupage 06-15-2020 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1990688)
As someone who was collecting back then the answer in my opinion was cash. Error cards were a big thing at that time and sold for huge premiums. Higher sale price on individual cards leads to more new unopened product selling.

I don’t know if this one was an intentional variation. Virtually zero publicity for this card until a tiny blurb in the annual Beckett stating its “discovery” in 1999. Ten years later! And I believe this note wasn’t even added to the books until the 2002 annual.

As for the why...From a production standpoint, could Randy have seen the card and complained about it post production? We know that Fleer was printing and distributing cards by mid-November 1988. Maybe earlier, but unverified, if so. We know that by mid-November the card had seen multiple cover-up attempts. Did Randy somehow see one of the few clear examples immediately upon release and object to the ad? How did he see it so quickly? I’ve never heard of a card company sending proofs to players before production. I don’t believe that is a thing. Very odd but I’m doubtful that Randy’s objection is the cause for it.

What’s really surprising to me is that nobody has managed to track down someone in the know. No Fleer people on the record even sharing conjecture, questionable memories.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:05 PM.