R423 Research In Progress
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflayank
have the whole set in orange in 15 13 cards strips lots of dupes exist
have 10 of those same strips in purple seems likely the other 5 strips exist
only have 1 green strip and 1 red strip
but i would guess they exist

As I have been working on research for this R423 card variations, I came across this old thread on CATALOGUED cards. Larry S (see the above quote) has noted the largest collection of these cards. As Larry noted above, I have concluded:
1. (Confirmed by Larry) The Orange back is far more common than other backs. The total of 15 different strips completes the set (with many duplicates). I only have 12 of these in my collection.
2. (Confirmed by Larry) I have several purple back strips that also directly correspond the the Orange back strips, so I ASSUME that there is a complete set of 15 Purple back strips as well.
3. Have only 1 Green back strip, but it also corresponds directly to one Orange back strip. Would like to confirm other Green Back strips with the Orange backs if anyone has those available.
4. (Confirmed by Larry) I have never seen the Red back strips, but have only seen a single card with the Red back. Would be interested in any collector with Red back strips have either a photo/scan they could send or the 13 names in order to confirm whether these strips also correlate with the Orange backs.
5. I have one Navy Blue back strip, and this also corresponds to one Orange back strip. Does anyone have any other Navy Blue back strips to confirm all 15 exist?

My goal would be to confirm that 15 strips of R423 cards exist, all with the same 13 players on a given strip. I would also like to confirm that each of these 15-strip sets exist in Orange, Purple, Green, Red and Navy backs.

Any help with photos/scans or 13-player lists would be great!

Hi Dave, I only collect Cardinals so I have no strips. I can confirm the following:

Purple-8 Brecheen, 21 Dean, 32 Frisch, 72 Musial, 83 Pollet
Black-32 Frisch
Orange-11 W Cooper, 21 Dean, 32 Frisch, 44 Hearn, 48 Hornsby, 53 Nippy Jones, 70 Mize, 71 Terry Moore, 83 Pollet, 87 Rice, 96 Slaughter, 97 Schoendienst, 98 Staley, 99 Shoun.

Dave--
 

Are you sure a true Red exists? I have heard for yrs that many have called the Orange as Red--the colors are so very close that they were easily mistaken.

I can verify that as a kid in the late '40's --early '50's that I got mine out of penny gumball machines--all folded up w/ a tiny rubber band around them. The Orange was by far the common color found in my WNY state area (some kids called them Red), altho I recall seeing Purple & Green also. Don't EVER recall seeing Black or Navy.

Red?
 

Fred,
I have seen one card scan (not even the real card), so NO, I cannot confirm that the Red back exists. I certainly have not seen a strip of Red. I have several individual cards that I called Navy Blue back when holding directly next to a Purple back, but I was never really convinced until I recently picked up the Navy Blue back strip (posted above). Side-by-side, these are clearly different colors, and I now believe these to be a true variant back.

This research has been ongoing for several years. I know other collectors out there have further info, I am just trying to gather it.

Here is a discussion/quote from dblyn.hubpages on the 1950 R423 Vintage Set:
"The cards in this series from the early 1950s are printed on thin stock and measure 5/8" by 3/4" (smaller than the size of a US quarter). They were initially offered as a long horizontal strip of 13 cards connected by a perforation. The cards were available with a variety of back colors with orange being the most common, green backs are uncommon and purple backs are rare. There have been isolated findings of Red and Blue backs which would be the rarest of the varieties. Complete strips intact are worth 50 percent more than the sum of the individual players on the strip. The numbering of the cards in the set is close to alphabetical. The strips are found with the cards in no particular order (though the players on the strip are consistent). These strips were found in one-cent bubblegum machines, folded accordion style and held together by a small metal clip."

As I have strips that have clearly never been folded, I also am interested in verifying the method of dispensing these cards and how so many complete/intact/non-folded strips surfaced.

Dave

The Jackie Robinson is damn near impossible to find. I've been searching for 3 years now, and the only one that's come up was bought within 30 minutes of it being listed.

By Me!

-Jason

BTW, mine has a purple back.

Does anyone have a strip with Jackie Robinson? I have never seen one. Lots of different strips show up on eBay, but never one with Robinson. Seems strange to me.

-Jason

short green strip
 

I would post a scan if I could figure out how to reduce the file size. But I have a green strip of 10 (obviously missing three of them). The ten are: Baumholtz, Dropo, Shoun, Gehrig, Henrich, Walter Johnson, Hubbell, Rizzuto, Jackie Robinson, and Mel Ott

Thanks everyone; all the data helps in my research. I also have yet to see a Jackie Robinson R423.

R423
 

Gentlemen:

In my Ashburn collection I have the below.

A strip of Purple or Blue??? I see the confusion in the colors and singles in Orange and Green.

Hope this helps in your research.

Fred

r423
 

all strips from all colors are the same sequence of players

Larry,
Thanks for the info. I realize you have compiled more information on this set than probably anyone. Based on all my reading, my collection and photos obtained, I assumed each strip being the same 13 players. Do you consider the back variations as Orange, Purple, Green, Navy Blue and Red? Can you indeed confirm a red strip? What about a Black back as mentioned by Cardinal Collector?

Fred,
That strip back looks more Navy Blue to me, and having the Navy and Purple strips side by side, they are very different colors.

Dave

Questions?
 

Larry indicates that the player sequence is the same for all colors:

There are a couple of strips on eBay with this sequence: W. Johnson, Henrich, Gehrig, Shoun, Baumholtz, Dropo, Zoldack, Newcombe, Zernial, Stephens, Coleman, Slaughter and Woodling.

Both appear to be either red or orange back.

I have a green back strip of ten with the following sequence: Baumholtz, Dropo, Shoun, Gehrig, Henrich, W. Johnson, Hubbell, Rizzuto, J. Robinson, and Ott

My short strip certainly appears to be genuine (as paper and size match the other R423s I have)--I am curious if these have ever been "reprinted?" Or if anyone might have an explanation for the different sequence in the strip?

My Research in a Nutshell
 

This research was started, based on previous data listed here on Net54 and many other places. Thanks to Larry for his initial threads that prompted this.

I have been trying to obtain information on this series for the past few years. There are very few publications on these R423 cards. I will admit that my experience with these cards is limited as I did not start collecting them until about 3 years ago. To the Net54 league, please throw out info on any errors or add data that may help clarify my research.

1) I have confirmed the existence of 15 different strips of players. I have also found that the strips tend to fall into those found “common(ly)”, “rare(ly)” and “very rare(ly)”—note these are MY OPINION on rarity based on research. Below is what I have collected to date.

a. Common Strips (6-confirmed in Orange, and several in Green backs)
i. Dean, Mack, Cobb (sig), Stanky, L Waner, Ruth, Greenberg, Kinder, Lemon, Heintzelman, Philley, Joost, Porterfield
ii. Westrom, Jones, Williams, Yost , Moore, Branca, Pennock, Gordon, Musial, Hornsby, Grove, Newhouser, O’Doul
iii. Feller, J DiMaggio, Simmons, Mathewson, Sisler, Frisch, P.Waner, Speaker, Mize, Dickey, Medwick, Cobb (no sig) , D. DiMaggio
iv. Schoendienst, Carrasquel, Staley, Cooper, Doby, Kiner, Newhouser, Hearn, Konstanty, Rosen, A.Zarilla, H.Thompson, Elliott
v. Stengel, Pafko, Trucks, Rice, Vance, Snider, Ashburn, Pollet ,Cavaretta, Heilman, Priddy, Reese, Parnell
vi. Johnson, Henrich, Gehrig, Shoun, Baumoltz, Dropo, Zoldack, Newcombe, Zernial, Stephens, Coleman, Slaughter, Woodling

b. Rare Strips (4-Confirmed in Orange)
i. Lockman, Slaughter, Zarilla, Jorgenson, Medwick, Dickey, Sisler, Feller, Woodling, Mapes, Speaker, P.Waner, J DiMaggio
ii. Crosetti, Frisch, Mathewson, Simmons, D.DiMaggio, Zernial, Crosetti, Dickson, Brecheen, O’Doul, Musial, Newhouser, Grove
iii. Jorgenson, Mapes, Lockman, Berra, Marshall, Dark, Blackwell, Kell, Campanella, Reynolds, Lopat, Raschi, Durocher
iv. Fain, Houtemann, Pesky, Hudson, Alexander, Thompson, Gordon, Sauer, Westrom + Gomez, Jansen + 2 unknown (this is a partial torn strip with only 11 of 13 documented)

c. Very Rare Strips (5, many only partial strips documented)
i. Wyrostek, Jones, Yost, Williams, Michaels, Branca, McCullough, Gordon, Pennock, Moore, Grove, Newhouser, Hornsby (confirmed in Orange and Navy backs)
ii. Raschi, Durocher, Feller, D.DiMaggio, Simmons, Mathewson, J.DiMaggio, Sisler, Frisch, P.Waner, Medwick, Speaker, Mize (confirmed only in Purple back, but suspect that Orange, and other colors, exist)
iii. Rice, Polley, Trucks, Pafko, Snider, Vance, Heilman, Ashburn, Cavaretta, Priddy, Reese, Easter, Parnell (confirmed only in Navy Blue back, but suspect that Orange, and other colors, exist)—THANKS FRED
iv. Baumholtz, Dropo, Shoun, Gehrig, Henrich, W.Johnson, Hubbell, Rizzuto, J.Robinson, Ott + 3 unknowns (this is a partial torn strip with only 10 of 13 documented—confirmed only in Green back, but suspect that Orange, and other colors, exist)—THANKS PETER M.
v. Westrom, Wyrostek (Green back pair together that do not correspond to any Orange/other color back known--? how this fits in with Orange backs)

d. As noted, there are multiple duplicates of some players (i.e. 3x J. DiMaggio, 3x Grove, 3x Feller, 2x Williams), but others like Jackie Robinson are noted only in a single strip.

e. I am only assuming 15 strips (but also confirmed in the past by Larry), as I have yet to collect the full 119 (?120) card set. Clearly 15 strips X 13 cards = 195 cards, so that makes approx 75 cards duplicates.

2) I have confirmed the colors of Orange, Purple, Green and Navy Blue strips, but cannot confirm the Red color. I have seen “shades” of the Orange back that are darker, but cannot convince myself that Red exists.


I would like to confirm all 15 strips, complete with all names, in all 4 (or 5) colors. Any further info can be passed to me here, PM, or by email at DHarford@satx.rr.com

Also, to my knowledge, I have never seen any reprints of this series.

Dave

has anyone ever seen a Hank Greenberg in any color besides orange and purple?

two different strips
 

I've picked up a couple strips over the last year that don't match up with Dave's research? Both are purple--

Westrom, Wyrostek, Williams, Wertz, Jones, Michaes Yost MccCollough, Moore, Branca, Pennock, Gordon and Hornsby

Marshall, Kiner, Carrasquel, Thompson, Konstanty, Cooper, Rosen, Elliot, Schoendienst, Coleman, Stephens, Newcombe, and Zoldack

I am a Konstanty collector--so the second purple strip caught me attention as it differs from one of the most common strips that has Konstanty, Rosen, Zarilla, Thompson and Elliot as the last five cards of the 13-card strip

I can also confirm that on the above listing--Very rare strips iv. the missing three cards are Lazzeri, Ennis and Goodman

Movie Star Strips
 

There is also a related set of movie star cards that were issued in the same way as the baseball cards, in 13-card accordion strips.

http://www.moviecard.com/zamerican/a...-miniperfF.jpg
http://www.moviecard.com/zamerican/a...-miniperfB.jpg

I've been working on the checklist and pictures of these cards on my Moviecard Website in the following location:

http://www.moviecard.com/zamerican/a...-tinyperf.html

Click the small picture on that page to see lots of pictures of strips of the movie cards.

I would welcome any additional information about the movie cards, it is a work in progress.

very cool
 

so we have baseball, hockey and hollywood. The actors strip is very cool.

I've also seen strips of Flags of the World and playing cards.

#100?
 

So online checklists list "card" 100 as unknown. Anyone have any information on #100 from the baseball R423 set?

three additional strips--I think this makes 19?
 

dark, reynolds, mize, kell, blackwell, staley, doby, hearn, berra, raschi, durocher, campanella and lopat

Konstanty, hearn, kiner, mapes, marshall, lockman, berra, blackwell, campanella, dark, kell, reynolds, lopat

Musial, o'doul, becheen, dickson, crosetti, wertz, collins, boudreau, cochrane, goodman, ennis, lazzeri, ott

Confirmed 19 different strips--and there must be more
 

Here is the listing of the 19 strips I have confirmed. I believe there must be more strips as there is only one "card" of multiple HOFers in these 19 strips--including Greenberg, Hubbell, Gomez, Collins, Cochrane among others.

Anyone have a different strip?

1) Dean, Mack, Cobb (sig), Stanky, L Waner, Ruth, Greenberg, Kinder, Lemon, Heintzelman, Philley, Joost, Porterfield
2) Westrom, Jones, Williams, Yost , Moore, Branca, Pennock, J. Gordon, Musial, Hornsby, Grove, Newhouser, O’Doul
3) Feller, J DiMaggio, Simmons, Mathewson, Sisler, Frisch, P.Waner, Speaker, Mize, Dickey, Medwick, Cobb (no sig) , D. DiMaggio
4) Schoendienst, Carrasquel, Staley, Cooper, Doby, Kiner, Newhouser, Hearn, Konstanty, Rosen, A.Zarilla, H.Thompson, Elliott
5) Stengel, Pafko, Trucks, Rice, Vance, Snider, Ashburn, Pollet ,Cavaretta, Heilman, Priddy, Reese, Parnell
6) Johnson, Henrich, Gehrig, Shoun, Baumoltz, Dropo, Zoldack, Newcombe, Zernial, Stephens, Coleman, Slaughter, Woodling
7) Lockman, Slaughter, Zarilla, Jorgenson, Medwick, Dickey, Sisler, Feller, Woodling, Mapes, Speaker, P.Waner, J DiMaggio
8) Crosetti, Frisch, Mathewson, Simmons, D.DiMaggio, Zernial, Crosetti, Dickson, Brecheen, O’Doul, Musial, Newhouser, Grove
9)Jorgenson, Mapes, Lockman, Berra, Marshall, Dark, Blackwell, Kell, Campanella, Reynolds, Lopat, Raschi, Durocher
10) Hodges, Gomez, Jansen, Hermanski Fain, Houtemann, Pesky, Hudson, Alexander, Thomson, Sid Gordon, Sauer, Westrom
11) Wyrostek, Jones, Yost, Williams, Michaels, Branca, McCullough, J. Gordon, Pennock, Moore, Grove, Newhouser, Hornsby
12) Raschi, Durocher, Feller, D.DiMaggio, Simmons, Mathewson, J.DiMaggio, Sisler, Frisch, P.Waner, Medwick, Speaker, Mize
13) Rice, Pollet, Trucks, Pafko, Snider, Vance, Heilman, Ashburn, Cavaretta, Priddy, Reese, Easter, Parnell
14) Baumholtz, Dropo, Shoun, Gehrig, Henrich, W.Johnson, Hubbell, Rizzuto, J.Robinson, Ott, Lazzeri, Ennis and Goodman
15) Westrom, Wyrostek, Williams, Wertz, Jones, Michaels, Yost MccCollough, Moore, Branca, Pennock, Gordon and Hornsby
16) Marshall, Kiner, Carrasquel, Thompson, Konstanty, Cooper, Rosen, Elliot, Schoendienst, Coleman, Stephens, Newcombe, and Zoldack
17) dark, reynolds, mize, kell, blackwell, staley, doby, hearn, berra, raschi, durocher, campanella and lopat
18) Konstanty, hearn, kiner, mapes, marshall, lockman, berra, blackwell, campanella, dark, kell, reynolds, lopat
19) Musial, o'doul, brecheen, dickson, crosetti, wertz, collins, boudreau, cochrane, goodman, ennis, lazzeri, ott

Strip #20
 

Picked up strip 20 on Ebay last night

Pesky, Houttemann, Easter, Hudson, Fain, Hermanski, Gomez, Jansen, Thomson, Hodges, Alexander, S. Gordon, Sauer

Still have multiple HOFers with only one card across the 20 strips including Greenberg, Hubbell, Eddie Collins, Cochrane, Stengel and Connie Mack.

How many strips are still out there to be added to this list?

Interesting thread, just came across it.

I have and can confirm a complete purple backed strip of -

Crosetti, Frisch, Mathewson, Simmons, D. DiMaggio, Zernial, Crosetti, Dickson, Beechen, O'Doul, Musial, Newhouser, & Grove


And can also confirm an orange backed complete strip exists for-

Raschi, Durocher, Feller, D. DiMaggio, Simmons, Mathewson, J. DiMaggio, Sisler, Frisch, P. Waner, Medwick, Speaker, & Mize


Great info on a very underappreciated and undervalued set. Of the now 20 known different strips out there, and the time that has passed since your research started, would love to see how you would classify all 20 known strips now between common, rare, and very rare, and see what changes you may have made from your initial assumptions. It also appears you have been able to identify and complete the listing of players for the partial strips you had shown earlier, which is great.

Just out of curiousity, in gathering this info on complete strips, have you also kept track of which ones were unfolded, as opposed to folded, or did you even ask that question of people confirming known complete strips to you? I would think this could also be an enlightening bit of info to compile and share. Have always wondered about the number of these strips that are out there, and if they may be a lot rarer than one would think, based on how little they are usually valued. And for the record, the two strips I'm confirming to you are both unfolded. And I also have an additional 10 complete strips, all orange backs, and also all unfolded.