Warning: SGC - A Factory Miscut = Miscut = "A" Grade
 

Hey Fellas!

I received my SGC submission ($25 level) back before the estimated return time! Great news. Bad news was out of the 22 cards SGC determined 6 were factory Miscut/Trimmed. They basically told me that a factory miscut on a T201, T202 and T206 American Beauty are deemed miscuts and are not eligible for numerical grades!

I have amassed a large collection of T201z and have handle many, if you are familiar with this set they are notoriously factory miscut and many in my Master set are super nice factory Miscuts with numerical grades from SGC. Apparently, they will no longer be eligible for a numerical technical grade!?! Same with the T202z which also have typical funky factory cuts and the T206 American Beauties?!?

I am a small fish in the grading game with only about 100 cards per year to SGC but I have been a fan for a long time (customer #129). This is disappointing news. I wanted to give you all a heads up if you were poised to send a factory miscut to SGC at $75 it will come back as an “A.”

Please note that the three example photos are all “factory Miscuts” as the wear along the edges were commensurate with age and handling. None are “after Market” trimmed. The T206 AB has been in a GAI holder for probably 15 years…

Just wanted to give you all a heads up.

When I asked for an explanation and a statement that I should not see any T206 AB cards with an “New” numerical grade, here is the response I got:

Hello Clifford,

When our graders determine a card to bear evidence of trimming or to have been miscut, they designate the card an "A" for "Authentic", as those cards are not eligible for numeric grades. The definition of "miscut" is contextual and varies between issues. Our graders are the foremost experts in the industry and we stand behind their determinations.

If you need anything else please let me know


Brent Martin
Collector Support
--

800.742.9212
www.gosgc.com


Thank You..
Clifford Franklin
SGC customer #129

Attachment 451922

Attachment 451923

Attachment 451924

Attachment 451925

Just had the same issue

Good for sgc
 

Good for SGC I agree with this decision 100%.

Re: Warning: SGC - A Factory Miscut = Miscut = "A" Grade
 

On what grounds, Glyn? That AB Street is off center, no doubt; but certainly appears to be full sized. But why, after thirty years of assigning numerical grades to off center and even miscut cards, is this no longer worthy of a number grade? PSA would (usually) assign a qualifier, while SGCs practice would generally have been to reduce the number grade. If this is indeed a change in policy, SGC owes us a far more detailed explanation than they gave Cliff. In my view, a far more likely explanation is inexperience and incompetence.

Completely disagree. They made a bad decision.
And I agree with Ed. It is nothing more than the incompetence that soured me on them.

.

SGC is "Authentic" happy. I got this one in, pretty sure it's full size/no paper loss with some beat up/compressed corners. Also had a Zeenut full size come back trimmed because it was missing the coupon (I believe). So they either have new graders that are learning or are hyper aware of all the trimming going on and have maybe tightened up too far.

It's hard as a vintage collector to send in cards full size for 25-75 bucks a pop and have them come back this way when there are thousands in the market with numbers on them. These vintage cards just weren't kept the same. If a card was trimmed and not meant to be hand cut it should 100% be A, but this is a whole new ballgame they are playing. They need refunds or qualifiers.

Hi Cliff

Regarding your T206 card of Street (AMERICAN BEAUTY 350).....crack it out of its plastic and re-submit it to SGC (or PSA).

There is a good likelihood that it will come back graded with a NUMBER. That card is very sharp and deserves a high grade.

I'm talking from experience with SGC. As, I have done exactly this with T206 AB cards that I acquired which were originally
Graded "A" (SGC or PSA) And were converted to graded cards numbered grades (5, 6, or 7's) upon re-submission.

It's worth the try.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

I think SGC got it mostly right. A number grade should indicate standard dimensions for the card. So T201s or T202's with the wavy cut should all be "Authentic". The problem is that they don't distinguish between authentic and altered. These are all unaltered, but I don't think they should have number grades. The t206 is tougher...but looks like an unusual left border (though it's hard to tell from scan. The issue is particular annoying in t207s as well where unusual factory cuts garner lots of A's.

Mac

It's as if they are looking at miscuts as a type of Scrap card which always gets an "A" from SGC. My legit T206 Scraps from PSA come back as Authentic Altered. I wish they'd at least put Authentic No Print since that's how they are listed in their population report.

Both companies claim to be experts in the topic of sportscards and memorabilia but sometimes it's as if they have no idea what they are looking at. Then it's identified wrong, added to their population report wrong, adding unneeded stress to the collector, additional down time for the item if they even agree to fix the mistake or modify the label and population report correctly. But with the cost of the grading and the amount of time they have your cards, you'd think everything would be done correctly without having to ask for something to be done correctly. Maybe it matters who you are and how much business you do with them. I've put off grading for the last ten years, waiting for the right reason and deal to have everything done. Until then, it sure makes storing them much easier.

15 plus years ago, I sent PSA 5 cards to be graded as part of the bonus when signing up for the membership. 4 of the 5 cards came back graded and labeled correctly. I contacted them and they said they'd fix the problem, but I haven't bothered yet. So one of my 1984 Topps Mattingly's is labeled as a Tiffany when it isn't. I don't like problems, and usually fix everything myself. I hate getting anyone else involved in my problems. I've always been that way, with the mindset of, if you want something done right, you got to do it yourself. The only problem I've run into is doing surgery on myself when I need to be under anesthesia. But I'm sure to prep everyone in the operating room from what IV needle to use, the vein and exact location of entry, angle, and depth. The meds and the order, incision locations and what extras to expect that are not in the general book. They either love me or hate to see me. My most often used quote when dealing with doctors, nurses, pharmacists, and everyone in between is "I shouldn't be right this many times about things, it's not my job to be right at your job, I've got 10+ other jobs to be right about." I'm even more concerned about the other patients that don't know any better and I'm in the next bed over, observing and listening. I've had to open my mouth multiple times because something was about to be done wrong. I've even literally been in arguments with the complete chain of command in a hospital about a medication that was labeled and boxed wrong, spending a full day trying to get someone to listen to me while demanding every level of employment until someone finally contacted the manufacture and found out the wrong medication was labeled, packed, boxed, and shipped to who knows how many hospitals around the country and then them trying to track all of it and who ended up getting the wrong thing throughout the country. I got a few visits from what looked to be high level payed people, asking how I knew it was wrong, even when the computers and everyone else promised it was right. A couple of those people even asked what my favorite foods were, during conversation. I had prime rib and lobster for dinner in the hospital a couple nights during my stay. When I hear that someone got sick with something new to them, I tell them to educate yourself as much as you possibly can and pay attention to everything and ask lots of questions. Sorry for the rant everyone lol :p By the way, I'm a certified auto technician and electrician. Not a surgeon but have recommendations by many people in the medical field. I just don't enjoy being around sick people because I don't like to see people suffer.

Ted is right. It's also a great strategy to get some really nice high value cards at a fraction of their value. But you gotta know what to look for.

I believe Glyn is the only one who has posted on this thread who has actually graded cards for a TPG so I'd like to hear more of why he believes that. Perhaps it is supposed to be a policy, and if so, that makes a ton of sense.

Rich

It might be ok for the worker bee as he/she is following orders....but, If the policy is wrong, in it's decision, it doesn't make it ok because it's a policy.
I acquired a stack of W575-1s, 20 cards including these 4, with the pack they came in. They were spot on in size when I had them, on a table, in a stack and flush. No hand cuts.
SGC told me on the phone it was their policy to put hand cut even though they knew these were NOT hand cut. I even sent the package they came in with them. They told me to have people call them and they would tell them they weren't hand cut. And that makes sense?
Actually, the only W575-1s that are hand cut are trimmed. They weren't issued in strips or hand cut. They were put in packages, I believe. These were given out in a package as a prize for a membership drive.

.

SGC- Where competence went to die.

Never mind policy, if the new clueless kids you hire to eliminate backlog can't remember simple stuff like "AB backed T206s were mostly cut narrow at the factory" they shouldn't be grading cards. Not at $75 each, not at $25 each.. they should not be grading at all.

Re: Warning: SGC - A Factory Miscut = Miscut = "A" Grade
 

Conceding Mac's point on the Street, I agree that it's not really possible to determine if the card is altered from the OP's scan. I'll amend my statement-if the Street is determined to be unaltered, it would have qualified for a number grade until (apparently) very recently. If, in fact, there has been a change in SGC's standards, I continue to maintain that their clients and the hobby in general are owed a vastly more detailed explanation than the self-serving, three sentence reply they gave Cliff. There are tens of thousands of off center and miscut cards with number grades in the holders of all the companies. How will the market react to this change? Do such cards lose significant value, since they'll now be AUT only? Or do SGC A cards that may qualify for a number grade in other company's holders get a bump in value?

At the end of the day, all these TPGs are self-appointed experts. There is, of course, no governing body or universal standards to which these entities or their employees are accountable. Obviously they are free to establish their own standards, policies and procedures. But to attempt to impose their standards on the hobby (or industry, if you prefer) seems to me somewhat akin to Brent Huigens' attempt to foist his own definition of "conservation vs. alteration" on us a couple years ago. One company or individual simply does not have the right to dictate to everyone else how hobby material should be viewed.

I will admit to a good deal of anger when I read statements such as "Our graders are the foremost experts in the industry". Do these include the graders who passed millions of dollars worth of altered cards? Not singling out SGC here by any means. I actually think they're far more competent than any of their rivals (which may not be saying very much). Sad to think that many of the same people that missed so many butchered cards may be training the future generation of graders. And there are hundreds of people (i'm not one of them) who have more expertise in their little pinkie than the vast majority of graders at any of the companies have in their entire selves.

Sorry for the long rant. Now back to your normal programming...

I do agree that the w575 grades are baffling...doesn't look hand cut to me.

Hi Cliff, I just got this back from SGC. I think I got the last of the $25 submission fees.

That sucks Cliff. I have been debating sending in my raw T201s. Looks like I should keep them that way.

Craig

I cannot believe that the advice is to bust and pay to resubmit as an acceptable practice. That is telling that the tpg's get away with this crap because they can. Not an acceptable consumer practice in my book.

Well, I guess that when it comes to SGC, there are the "haves" and the "have nots". Those who've posted here are definitely the "have nots".

Here's a link to a thread that features the "haves"...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1460488

If you "have" enough money, SGC will grant you that high number grade on your altered/trimmed card. Plenty of examples to peruse through... including a $42,000 Joe Jackson PSA 8, that was altered into an SGC 9.

Do you really think the card doctor would have even risked trimming such an expensive card without KNOWING FULL WELL he would get the upgrade? If this doesn't wreak of favoritism and corruption, I have know idea what does.

The common collector routinely gets screwed while the preferred fraudsters make more for a few minutes work than most people will earn in a full year. :mad:

Pre-Aguilitas
 

Hello, now I show you the rarest cards of the "Aguilitas Artistic Series" these are the "Pre-Aguiitas" I gave them that name and this is how it appears in my catalog because these cards appeared in the cigarette packs of propaganda to the series that It would come out weeks later, the cards on the front are the same portrait, but behind appears the propaganda of the series and its numbers according to the theme, very few of these were made and it is very rare to find any, I have only seen these in the series of baseball cards, in the photo we see the pack of cigarettes, and the card of Alejandro Oms, and its two backs.

Please excuse me for those who see this thread, I was wrong and I put the message here. Roland49.

Incredible card and great post, regardless. What a rare and exceptional card!