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N332 S.F. Hess Tom Sayers
Curious if anybody has seen a N332 S.F. Hess Tom Sayers? I have wondered what pose was used on the photo of that card.
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I saw a S.F. Hess Tom Sayers on the SGC Population Report. Does anybody know what photo was used?
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12 years too late, but I came across this thread and this photo while trying to catalog N332's.
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That's a beaut.
Greg, I have a pile of N332 images in my library. Shoot me a list of any you are looking for and I will see what I have. |
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Jack Ashton Joe Ellingsworth Joe Goss Jack Hyams Jem Mace Richard Mansfield (Actor) PRofessor McLellan John Morrisey Pete Mulby Jerry Murphy Charlie Norton The cards catalogued in your book (I have the 2016-2017 edition here) that we don't have a picture of yet are: Barney Allen Tom Allen Jack Ashton Florry Barnett Bob Brettle Patsey Candiff (SP, different pose from the Cardiff?) Jimmy Carroll Arthur Chambers Johnny Clark Joe Coburn Mike Conley Tommy Danforth Prof. Donaldson Bob Farrell Jack Files Geo. Fulljames Austin Gibbons Sparrow Golden John Hughes Jimmy Kelley Patsey Kerrigan Tom King Nat Langham Billy Madden Joe McCauliffe Charley Mitchell Young Mitchell Johnny Murphy Jimmy Murray Tom Paddock Paddy Ryan Frank Slavin Viro Small (Black Sam) Steve Taylor Bob Tunnuell Jem Ward Frank White Joe Wormald Fritz Wright I think some of these subjects may only be known from the Burdick collection. Your checklist also includes 2 unnamed subjects in the card 100 slot, and says there are 2 varieties of Peter Jackson. Attached is the Jackson we have in the gallery; but we need whatever the other one is. This is a great set, though it has not physically aged well, and I'm hoping we can gather in a public place a more complete list and gallery of the set. These large N card releases often have pose variations that require a gallery. My lone Hess is a Dempsey, and I hope to add a Donovan to my collection some day. Good luck to anyone out there working on this full set! |
Greg, this is one of my favorite sets and still finding new cards every couple of years. I'm up to 82 different boxers and have scans of all of them. I can send you an updated checklist as well. Shoot me a PM and I'll send you my email address.
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Brent, that sounds like a great collection.
Greg, I was mistaken. I do not currently own any SFHess boxing. I have these boxing cards of OJ and GQ and a baseball of Hess. I think I must have sold the 1 or 2 Hess I had, or thought the Gypsy Queen was a Hess. |
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I'm happy to settle for N174 pictures!
This is my lone S.F. Hess card, with the Nonpareil looking a lot less intimidating in his suit than in Rob's N174 card with his fists out. |
I have a Charley Mitchell with the ad cut off; that's it.
Sounds like Brent has it nailed in terms of images. |
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Thank you to Brent for providing 24 missing images, and letting us use them in the gallery that should be updated in the near future. Looking for images of: Barney Aaron Tom Allen Patsey Cardiff (named spelled correctly) Johnny Clark Joe Coburn Professor Donaldson Jack Files Austin Gibbons Sparrow Golden Billy Madden Joe McAuliffe Paddy Ryan Steve Taylor Joe Wormald Fritz Wright I am personally doubtful that some of these subjects actually exist; primarily the ones with names that I cannot connect to an actual person alive at that time. There are probably other subjects waiting to be discovered whose names are not on the list of claimed cards. Some of those with names like a known famous fighter with a card I am also not confident are real cards. We have photos gathered of 2 anonymous subjects, one of whom is Frank Slavin. Anonymous subjects would be useful to see as well if anyone has any. Sorry for hijacking OP :) |
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Hi all,
Here’s images of Barney Aaron and Patsey Cardiff. Cards I have in my collection. Sorry for the poor photo’s. These are so difficult to find especially over here in England! Attachment 564249 Attachment 564250 |
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Hi all again,
Checking through my raw cards. Here’s a Patsey Fallon which is a different image to the one on the moviecard database. Attachment 564256 |
Thank you Mark! 3 more new images.
Upon closer review of the scans I am gathering I believe the "Patsy Fallon" in the gallery is actually the Jack Fallon card, which has no name displayed identifying the subject, and will need to be updated. I'd really love to see, especially, Sparrow Golden & Jack Files. I cannot yet identify men of these names at the time of the cards. These 2 seem to come from Burdick, but the Met has no image for these cards listed. These 2 are on my suspect list right now. Also looking for the non-boxers if folks are also collecting the athletes, actors and handful of celebrities. I think we can get closer to 150 total subjects than the ~130 the checklists hover around. Thank you everyone who has shared publicly or privately their collections of these with me the last few days for checklisting and research. It is really a shame that this set has not aged so well; when one appears with a relatively unfaded image they are really gorgeous photographs. I'm really appreciating the unique photos used in this set that we don't see on other cards. |
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June 2 1887 Attachment 564283 |
I love the descriptions of old boxing. 3 hours, 44 rounds, beaten to a pulp, $1,400. Quite a lot of money then actually, but boy did they have it rough in those days
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I couldn't find his unusual name on Google, DuckDuckGo or CyberBoxingZone, but he has a Boxrec. Contrary to the supplement, it makes him look like he was one of those guys who was there for better boxers to beat in fights between the actual fights. https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/40459
The photo of Files is probably the photo we will find on his card |
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One of the anonymous cards I have looks very similar to the Jack Files image above... Attached below. Thoughts?
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I wouldn’t trust my eyes, but it looks to me like a slightly different photo from the same photo shoot. I think the anonymous boxer is the Jack Files in the checklist
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Hi all,
That’s a good shout Brent. The anonymous Hess card and the Files photo when side by side look very convincing to me. A different pose at the the same shoot. |
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With Charlie crossed off, here's my updated list of cards I am looking for pictures of, including the non-boxers. I think our checklist is much more complete in the boxing subset and I am sure there are multiple subjects missing that I don't have a name for yet:
Tom Allen (Boxer) Lawrence Barrett (Actor) Prof. Bauer Kyle Bellew (Actor) Edwin Bibby Arthur Chambers Jimmy Clark or Johnny Clark Joe Coburn (Boxer) Sam Day Donald Dinnie Prof. Donaldson (Boxer) H.W. Dufur R. Edwards Austin Gibbons (Boxer) Sparrow Golden (Boxer) Ed. Hanlan Abe Hicken George Lee Geo. Littlewood Billy Madden Joe McAuliffe Sebastian Miller Wm. Muldoon Jim Mutrie Duncan C. Ross Wallace Ross Paddy Ryan (Boxer) E.H. Sothern Steve Taylor Robt. Vint Lester Wallock Josh Ward Fred Weir Clarence Whistler Joe Wormald (Boxer) Fritz Wright |
Thanks to Brent for Chambers and Billy for Sam Day. 2 more crossed off.
These subjects I have seen listed somewhere but we have not seen a picture of: Tom Allen (Boxer) Lawrence Barrett (Actor) Edwin Bibby (Wrestler) Patsey Carney (?) - Burdick Collection Johnney Clark (Boxer) - Burdick Collection Joe Coburn (Boxer) Donald Dinnie (Strong Man) Prof. Donaldson (Boxer) H.W. Dufur (Wrestler) - Burdick Collection R. Edwards (?) Austin Gibbons (Boxer) Sparrow Golden (Boxer) - Burdick Collection Ed. Hanlan (Oarsman) - SGC POP Report Jim Kill (?) - PSA POP Report George Lee (Track & Field) - Burdick Collection Geo. Littlewood (Pedestrian) Billy Madden (Boxer) Sebastian Miller (Strong Man) Jerry Murphy (Boxer) - SGC POP Report Jimmy Murray (Boxer) - SGC POP Report Wallace Ross (Oarsman) Paddy Ryan (Boxer) - Burdick Collection & PSA POP Report E.H. Sothern (Actor) Steve Taylor (Boxer) - Burdick Collection Robt. Vint (Athlete) - Burdick Collection Josh Ward (Fighter) Fred Weir (Athlete) Clarence Whistler (Wrestler) Joe Wormald (Boxer) - Burdick Collection Fritz Wright (Boxer) |
I used Burdick, the PSA report, scanned SGC for additional cards (their "N332" section is a total disaster and they catalog Hess cards together in it. SGC's lists can be such a pain in the rear...), The non-sport list, Adam’s list in the 2016-17 edition of his book, and collector lists that are public as well as those kind enough to share their checklists or partial lists privately. Cards that have a graded copy or appear in the Burdick collection but we have not seen are annotated with the source. Thank you to the many individuals who have shared their lists, knowledge, referrals, and images.
I have tried to better denote the type of subject pictured in this list, as many of them were obscure even at the time and do not have other cards. I would greatly appreciate any feedback, corrections, fixes, additions, or observations that I've messed something up. The cards that are not yet confirmed by a public photograph are listed in red. Some listed cards may not exist; particularly those with names similar to another subject. Cards in red we would greatly appreciate a picture of. Cards confirmed with the solid proof of a picture are shown in the Gallery (http://www.moviecard.com/gallery/showtime2.html; N332 is at: http://www.moviecard.com/gallery/oth...cco//n332.html). I have denoted the Candiff/Cardiff reports and the 2 Jackson's as variations rather than unique cards. As the 2 Jacksons are the same picture, it seems to me to meet the criteria of a true variation rather than being a unique card. I don't think we've seen both Cardiff's yet; if the picture is different I think it a different card, if its a caption error that was corrected it is a true variation. There are also some photo defects that were likely to have been recurring I have encountered that I am not including here, following hobby tradition rather than my own predilections. Jim Mutrie that appears in many checklists is a check listing error. Burdick catalogued the Hess cards by subject matter. Thus a baseball player in the design can only be an N338. The unique or nearly unique cards that complicate check listing and make this incomplete also indicate the likelihood that some cards that were made may no longer exist at all. I find the absence of Jake Kilrain thus far particularly noteworthy, at a glance. 1 Barney Aaron - Boxer 2 Joe Acton - Wrestler 3 Tom Allen - Boxer 4 Jack Ashton - Boxer 5 Florry Barnett - Boxer 6 Lawrence Barrett - Actor 7 Maurice Barrymore - Actor 8 Prof. Bauer - Wrestler 9 William Beach - Oarsman 10 Kyrle Bellew - Actor (Burdick Collection) 11 Woole Bendhoff - Boxer 12 Edwin Bibby - Wrestler 13 Dion Boucicault - Actor 14 Bob Breetle - Boxer 15 Jack Burke - Boxer 16A Patsey Candiff (spelled wrong) - Boxer 16B Patsey Cardiff - Boxer 17 Jack Carkeek - Wrestler 18 Jem Carney - Boxer 19 Patsey Carney - ? (Burdick Collection) 20 Jimmy Carroll - Boxer 21 George Cartwright - Athlete 22 Arthur Chambers - Boxer 23 Johnny or Johnney or Jimmy Clark - Boxer (Burdick collection has “Johnney Clark) 24 Mike Cleary - Boxer 25 Joe Coburn - Boxer (Burdick Collection) 26 Buffalo Bill, Hon.Wm.F. Cody - Showman 27 Sam Collyer - Boxer 28 Mike Conley - Boxer 29 Chas E. Courtney - Athlete 30 Thomas Courtney - ? (Only in Warshaw’s book) 31 Wm. Cummings - Athlete 32 Mike Cushing - Boxer 33 Billy Dacy - Boxer 34 Capt. Daly - Wrestler 35 Tommy Danforth - Boxer 36 Sam Day - Athlete 37 Jack Dempsey - Boxer 38 Donald Dinnie- Strong Man 39 Mike Donahue - Wrestler 40 Prof. Donaldson - Boxer 41 Dan Donnelly - Boxer 42 Mike Donovan - Boxer 43 H.W. Dufur - Wrestler (Burdick Collection) 44 Thos. A. Edison - Inventor 45 Billy Edwards - Boxer 46 R. Edwards - ? 47 Joe Ellinhsworth - Boxer 48 Jack Fallon - Boxer 49 Patsy Fallon - Boxer 50 Bob Farrell - Boxer 51 Jim Fell - Boxer 52 Jack Files (no name) - Boxer 53 Pat Fitzgerald- Athlete 54 Jack Fogarty - Boxer 55 Malcolm W. Ford - Actor 56 Geo. Fulljames- Boxer 57 Austin Gibbons- Boxer 58 Harry Gilmore - Boxer 59 Geo Godfrey - Boxer 60 Sparrow Golden- Boxer (Burdick Collection) 61 Joe Goss - Boxer 62 Alf Greenfield - Boxer 63 Gus Guerrero - Pedestrian 64 Albert Hamm - Oarsman 65 Ed. Hanlan - Oarsman (SGC POP Report) 66 Chas. Harriman - Track & Field 67 Dooney Harris - Boxer 68 Frank Hart - Pedestrian 69 Jack Haylin - Boxer 70 John C. Heenan - Boxer 71 Dan Hesty - Athlete 72 Abe Hicken - Boxer (Incorrectly checklisted as Micken in some places) 73 Dick Hollywood- Boxer 74 John Hughes - Wrestler 75 Jack Hyams - Fighter 76A Peter Jackson (one name) - Boxer 76B Peter Jackson (two names) - Boxer 77 Wm. Johnston - Athlete 78 Jimmy Kelly - Boxer 79 Patsey Kerrigan - Boxer 80 Jim Kill - ? (Source: PSA) 81 Pat Killen - Boxer 82 Tom King - Boxer 83 Nat Langham - Boxer 84 George Lee - Track & Field (Burdick Collection) 85 Tom Lees - Boxer 86 Evan Lewis - Wrestler 87 Geo. Littlewood - Pedestrian 88 Jem Mace - Boxer 89 Billy Madden - Boxer 90 Richard Mansfield - Actor 91 Jack McAuliffe - Fighter 92 Joe McAuliffe - Boxer 93 Dominick McCaffrey - Boxer 94 Prof. McClellan - Boxer 95 Billy McLean - Boxer 96 Joe McPherson - Track & Field 97 Sebastian Miller - Strong Man 98 Charlie Mitchell - Boxer 99 Young Mitchell - Boxer 100 Jack Morrissey- Boxer 101 Pete Mulby - Boxer (sometimes listed as Hulby) 102 Wm. Muldoon - Wrestler 103 Frank Murphy - Boxer 104 Jerry Murphy - Boxer (SGC POP Report) 105 Johnnie/Johnny Murphy - Boxer 106 Jimmy Murray - Boxer (SGC POP Report) 107 Billy Myers - Boxer 108 Lon Myers - Athlete 109 Danny Needham - Boxer 110 Geo. Noremac - Athlete 111 Charlie Norton- Boxer 112 Wm. O'Connor - Oarsman 113 Dan O'Leary - ? 114 Tom Paddock - Boxer 115 Joe Pendergrast - Boxer 116 Fred Plaisted - Oarsman 117 Ted Pritchard - Boxer 118 Johnny Reagan - Boxer 119 Geo. Rooke - Boxer 120 Duncan C. Ross- Swordsman 121 Wallace Ross - Oarsman 122 Charley Rowell- Athlete 123 Paddy Ryan - Boxer (PSA graded card + Burdick Collection) 124 Salvini - Actor 125 Black Sam - Wrestler 126 Tom Sayers - Boxer 127 John L. Scholes - Boxer 128 Wm. Sheriff - Boxer 129 Frank Slavin(no name)- Boxer 130 Jem Smith - Boxer 131 E.H. Sothern - Actor 132 John L. Sullivan - Boxer 133 Yankee Sullivan - Boxer 134 Steve Taylor - Boxer (Burdick Collection) 135 Mervine Thompson - Boxer 136 Bob Tunnuell - Boxer 137 Harry Vaughn - Athlete 138 Robt. Vint - Athlete (Burdick Collection) 139 Jem Ward - Boxer 140 Josh Ward - Fighter 141 Tommy Warren - Boxer 142 Fred Weir - Athlete 143 Ike Weir - Boxer 144 Clarence Whistler - Wrestler 145 Frank White - Boxer 146 Lester Wollack - Actor 147 Joe Wormald - Boxer (Burdick Collection) 148 Fritz Wright - Boxer |
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