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-   -   81 Fleer new variation. (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=299880)

steve B 04-05-2021 01:43 PM

81 Fleer new variation.
 
Finished going through my "new" batch of 81 fleer that I bought for a few variations and making a checklist/spreadsheet for the set.

I was surprised that this one didn't seem to be on any lists. It's not exactly a trivial one. And it's on a card that appears to be a later printing.

There are hundreds of trivial constant varieties, that I'm pretty sure nobody else saves. Except whoever had the batch I bought.

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=30351

Cliff Bowman 04-05-2021 03:38 PM

If you run across a 1981 Fleer Tim Stoddard with the last D in his name missing on the front as ĎTIM STODDARí I will pay a a Kingís ransom for it. Iíll post a scan tonight.

Kevin 04-05-2021 04:51 PM

Now you guys are going to make me run through my '81 Fleers, aren't you?

GasHouseGang 04-05-2021 05:18 PM

When does a card pass from being a print defect to a "variation"? Does it have to be reoccurring and then it's a variation? I'm not trying to be smart, I really want to know.

bnorth 04-05-2021 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang (Post 2089979)
When does a card pass from being a print defect to a "variation"? Does it have to be reoccurring and then it's a variation? I'm not trying to be smart, I really want to know.

In all seriousness it depends on who the submitter is if you are talking recognized by the grading companies.

Otherwise it is something that we all debate about without coming to a real answer that the hobby as a whole agrees on.

insidethewrapper 04-05-2021 05:54 PM

Steve: Which card are you referring to ? Delete, I see it now on my computer.

Cliff Bowman 04-05-2021 08:02 PM

2 Attachment(s)
This is what the 1981 Fleer Tim Stoddard missing the last D looks like, it was to the left of the blown out Harold Baines on the 132 card uncut sheet. ETA I don't know if the Bob Lacey to the right of Baines was also affected.

steve B 04-05-2021 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman (Post 2090039)
This is what the 1981 Fleer Tim Stoddard missing the last D looks like, it was to the left of the blown out Harold Baines on the 132 card uncut sheet. ETA I don't know if the Bob Lacey to the right of Baines was also affected.

Didn't have any of those.

steve B 04-05-2021 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang (Post 2089979)
When does a card pass from being a print defect to a "variation"? Does it have to be reoccurring and then it's a variation? I'm not trying to be smart, I really want to know.

It really does depend on who you ask.
Some only count intentional corrections of errors. (Or less commonly intentional errors created while fixing errors in other cards)

There are a lot of recurring printing varieties that are due to differences between say the first blue plate and the second or third or... Lots of plates to produce millions of something.

Some may not be intentional, like the 91 Topps with backs that glow under UV or not. That might be just cards from a different printer who used a different ink.

Then there's a ton of stuff that has to be filed under maybe? Like the Upper Deck cards using hologram foil from a different set or year.
Or 93 upper deck where the gloss on the back comes three ways for a portion of the set.
Gloss only over the picture
Gloss over the entire back.
Gloss over just the picture AND an additional layer covering the entire back.


This particular card would technically be a print defect, because of the likely cause being a damaged mask used to produce the red plate. But like many, if it's a big enough difference it usually gets considered.

The hundreds of trivial ones are interesting to me, but are mostly caused by dust or debris in the equipment or room during the phase when the negatives used to create the mask were made. I've found them on nearly every card, some are specific to a press run, others are constant throughout.

There is an odd effect I've found on many where the halftone appears to be lines of varying thickness instead of dots. I'm still not real sure about those, because there were also a handful that looked somewhere in between. (Unlike 88 Score where the angle of the halftone pattern changed)

steve B 04-05-2021 09:08 PM

A couple other oddities I didn't scan yet, and may have trouble locating again.

A fiber similar to the pointing hands that is in blue. And which appears in different places on the card. mostly consistent, except for moving a bit between one run and the next.

A card with a "white" dot in the background on the left side. But it has a halftone dot pattern in blue, which doesn't line up with the rest of the blue pattern. To me it appears to have been done by hand on the mask as it carries over between print runs. An intentional repair that's so small it's hard to even notice at all. Some really fine work by the stripping dept, less so by the camera dept. And why didn't they fix the hundreds of other random dots and specks?

jacksoncoupage 04-05-2021 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 2089869)
Finished going through my "new" batch of 81 fleer that I bought for a few variations and making a checklist/spreadsheet for the set.

I was surprised that this one didn't seem to be on any lists. It's not exactly a trivial one. And it's on a card that appears to be a later printing.

There are hundreds of trivial constant varieties, that I'm pretty sure nobody else saves. Except whoever had the batch I bought.

I have listed this variation on ebay (no successful sales) probably a dozen times since 2007ish. I pulled about 25% COR to 75% ERR ratio from several 5000ct boxes of 1981 Fleer. Pretty sure I have 6-10 pairs still.

See Dwayne Henry's card for a related unlisted variation.

ALR-bishop 04-06-2021 08:54 AM

Was aware of and have Baines. Did not know about Stoddard. Is it harder to find than Baines ? They would seem to exist in equal numbers, unless like Puhl in 86 it was more likely Baines was kept and Stoddard pitched ( pun not intended)

There have been some good debates on what is and or what should be a variation in threads in here. Lemke tried to restore some order but it is chaos now. We need someone in charge of that issue, a hobby czar :)

slidekellyslide 04-06-2021 09:50 AM

Is the variation the red bleeding ink in the name? If so Iíve got a million cards with variations.

steve B 04-06-2021 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide (Post 2090172)
Is the variation the red bleeding ink in the name? If so Iíve got a million cards with variations.

It's not bleeding, it's red printed as part of the name for one small area. On all the normal cards the name is only in black.
The edges of the lettering a just as clear as on the black.

I have a lot of overinked cards, and this isn't one.

steve B 04-06-2021 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage (Post 2090083)
I have listed this variation on ebay (no successful sales) probably a dozen times since 2007ish. I pulled about 25% COR to 75% ERR ratio from several 5000ct boxes of 1981 Fleer. Pretty sure I have 6-10 pairs still.

See Dwayne Henry's card for a related unlisted variation.

That's interesting. I finally went and had a look on COMC, and all but one there has the red. Looks like that mask damage happened fairly early and never got fixed.

Cliff Bowman 04-06-2021 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 2090159)
Was aware of and have Baines. Did not know about Stoddard. Is it harder to find than Baines ? They would seem to exist in equal numbers, unless like Puhl in 86 it was more likely Baines was kept and Stoddard pitched ( pun not intended)

There have been some good debates on what is and or what should be a variation in threads in here. Lemke tried to restore some order but it is chaos now. We need someone in charge of that issue, a hobby czar :)

Yes, I think it’s the same deal as the 1986 Topps Clemens-Seaver-Puhl Blue Streak, most 86 Topps Clemens and Seaver cards were saved over the past 35 years but commons like Puhl (I hope he isn’t a member here :eek:) got tossed for lack of storage space. I would imagine MANY 1981 Fleer commons have been tossed in the last 40 years but cards such as the Baines rookies were saved. I have seen 5 to 10 of the Baines since I was aware of it but those are the only Stoddard, Reuss, and Bomback cards I have seen. I don’t know if a Bob Lacey exists.

bobsbbcards 04-07-2021 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 2090159)
We need someone in charge of that issue, a hobby czar :)

I nominate you. :cool:

ALR-bishop 04-08-2021 09:29 AM

Since the catalogs are gone and PSA is making the variant decisions these days we need a graded collector type, maybe someone who has been a PSA Collector of The Year to take the lead. Who do we know like that ?

steve B 04-08-2021 10:26 PM

At the current price levels I don't think you'll find anyone.

Rich Klein 04-13-2021 06:52 PM

I found one currently on the COMC Web site and created a separate listing for that card. I think the others are not the "Red" version but if someone wants to look and see if I missed any please send a Correction Request in.

steve B 04-14-2021 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Klein (Post 2092632)
I found one currently on the COMC Web site and created a separate listing for that card. I think the others are not the "Red" version but if someone wants to look and see if I missed any please send a Correction Request in.

I looked a week or so ago, and there seemed to be one maybe two normal ones and about 6 red ones.

Rich Klein 04-14-2021 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 2092764)
I looked a week or so ago, and there seemed to be one maybe two normal ones and about 6 red ones.

As noted, my eyes aren't that good so send either correction requests or Email me (preferred to DM) the ID #'s and I'll fix them

Rich


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