Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2242272)

…I return it, eBay pays the shipping, and then eBay forces the seller to refund me.

Originally Posted by BobC (Post 2242271)

LOL

I hear you. There is no perfect answer that covers everyone's questions and issues 100%. Ebay obviously had/has some intention(s) in mind when proposing and implementing this new program, but they have not seen fit to share that with everyone that uses their platform, so the best we all can do is guess as to what their true and ultimate intentions are.

Originally Posted by Eric72 (Post 2242275)

FWIW, the seller pays for return shipping.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2242276)

Must be one of those situations that is on a need to know basis and clearly we do not need to know.

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2242272)

This. I have been buying on eBay for 21 years. I have never once been scammed or defrauded. By applying the most basic of common sense, I've mostly avoided it. As a buyer, that eBay sides with me 100% no matter what for several weeks after a card is delivered leaves essentially no room to get defrauded anyways (which has only happened a couple times, and by big name sellers). Even if I bought a fake or the seller sent a fake instead of a legit card pictured, it doesn't really matter. I return it, eBay pays the shipping, and then eBay forces the seller to refund me.

Having every single card (or slab, they won't even review the actual card the time, which should maybe signal that this isn't about cards at all anymore) of value go through this review cannot possibly be cheaper than the old policy. Nor does it actually afford greater protection. I know this apparently sends some members into rages, but oh well.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2242283)

It is no shock that some people love the AG program. They do not have to use common sense when buying on eBay, take the time to educate themselves or take steps to vet their sellers and instead pass that responsibility onto someone else. All the while they can maintain the illusion that the card they bought, which might be altered, is 100% legit. Ya gotta love it.

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2242279)

Thank you for correcting. So it costs eBay $0 and gives the buyer a full refund on anything.

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2242286)

I'm against it, but I see why others might like the raw card version.

Originally Posted by Deertick (Post 2242226)

Adam, I believe the point of the eBay guarantee is that you received what you paid for. I believe 'breaking the seal' would only prevent you from a return (busting chain of custody thingy).

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2242270)

In 24 years of heavy buying on ebay, there was a total of ONE occasion on which someone sent me something other than what I bought. It was not an item the guarantee would apply to, and in any event I got my money back within one day. I have to believe my experience is typical of buyers in the card space. Are they REALLY saving us from anything nontrivial? Sure, you can posit the box of rocks hypothetical, but how often does that really happen? I don't think a program this disruptive can be justified by a once in a blue moon type of fraud.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 2242365)

Completely missed in all of this is how the eBay program protects sellers against specious claims. In the past few years I've had a half dozen of so sellers come back to me (usually modern cards) and ask for some bullshit partial refund for a scratch on a case that supposedly wasn't apparent or some other nonsense. The level of stupidity is off the chart. How about "card doesn't seem as sharp as it did in the picture. How about a $50 refund." And if you don't give in to them they slam you with lousy feedback and you are off to the races with eBay dealing with that. I haven't read all the fine print, but would hope some of this nonsense could be eliminated with the new eBay system.

Originally Posted by todeen (Post 2242395)

I just bought a $600 raw card from Greg Morris on ebay. But it didn't need to be sent for authentication. Does GM have a deal with ebay to avoid this?

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by glchen (Post 2242086)

I completely disagree with the comments in this post. Scamming is always worse than ignorance. It's outrageous to me that we can blame the victim of the scamming instead of the perpetrator. There's an entire thread on N54 right now on the scamming going on in the BST, and many of the victims are experienced and knowledgeable board members. it's the same thing with ebay. Buyers on ebay expect a safe marketplace. They shouldn't have to be on guard that they will be scammed.

Therefore, in general, I completely support the steps that ebay is taking with their guarantee authentication service. I have bought several items that went through this service, both graded and raw. I've never had an issue with the additional days that it took for the items to go through the service. Frankly, the biggest time issue was that one seller sent the item to the authentication service through USPS Registered Mail, that that took FOREVER. But everyone recommends Register mail for expensive items, so I was fine with it.

I agree that it makes less sense to have graded cards go through the Authentication service, but I'm fine with it. As others have mentioned, there have been scams even with graded cards such as empty box, bogus tracking numbers, cracked slabs, fake slabs, and so forth. Let me put it this way. Let's say the major auction houses said that as a new policy, graded cards would now be shipped directly from the consignor to you instead of from the auction house. if you have any problems after receiving the item, tough luck. I think there would be outrage against any auction house that announced this change because folks expect the auction house to do some basic sanity checking for even the graded cards as part of the service they expect from the BP they pay. It's the same thing here.

Originally Posted by todeen (Post 2242395)

I just bought a $600 raw card from Greg Morris on ebay. But it didn't need to be sent for authentication. Does GM have a deal with ebay to avoid this?

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2242419)

I would trust Greg Morris as much as CSG. Not that anyone is perfect.

Originally Posted by nwobhm (Post 2242427)

….and with Greg Morris you have the liberty of holding it in your hand before you decide to keep it.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman (Post 2242310)

That is the literal opposite of how eBay suggests using the service: "Your card comes in custom packaging that can be folded into a stand‑perfect for highlighting the newest add to your collection." if the only purpose of it was confirmation, they'd not bother with the fancy display packaging for the card. Speaking of which, the "padfolio" (eBay's word for it) is ugly as heck and doesn't stay in place for display. I tested it.

Again, I don't think it is a bad thing per se with raw cards, just really, really silly for slabbed cards.

Originally Posted by Snowman (Post 2242604)

Not giving buyers the option to bypass this authentication step is the part I dislike. I don't need help determining if a card or slab is authentic or not.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2242687)

That was my point early on. Glad they are offering it to those who need it. At the risk of infuriating Sanpolit1 again, I don't need CSG's opinion on an ungraded card and I certainly do not need PSA's opinion on a slab's authenticity.

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 2241487)

Don't they send them to PSA? The place that never makes a mistake and everyone working there is WAY smarter than us?

Originally Posted by LACardsGuy (Post 2242723)

They go to CSG, which does not know its A from its elbow. I just had THREE cards rejected as altered, when none were, and SGC graded them all with numerical grades. It is a nightmare for sellers. Fine for buyers, I guess, other than if cards get rejected them and they actually wanted them.

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 2242732)

For some reason I thought raw cards went to CSG and graded went to PSA.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman (Post 2242719)

Especially one from its rivals...For that matter, I don't need CSG's opinion on a card it doesn't grade. That's like asking a homeless guy for interior decorating tips.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman (Post 2242719)

Especially one from its rivals...For that matter, I don't need CSG's opinion on a card it doesn't grade. That's like asking a homeless guy for interior decorating tips.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 2242792)

Realize my life would be a lot easier here if I knew everything like you guys and just consistently complained.

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2242793)

The irony.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2242802)

Zactly...not sure anyone has started more threads for the single purpose of complaining.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 2242832)

Lol. On a board where senior citizens complain that Shohei Ohtani is getting too much attention.

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia (Post 2242417)

Often they auction things and use the phrase " Set Break" in the listing..... ?? possibly the new rule is only for single cards ?

..

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2242744)

This is exactly how it works.

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 2243335)

Does that mean that if I buy a PSA graded card on Ebay, it goes back to PSA for further evaluation with presumably PSA receiving compensation for their work? If so, this double dipping at its' best and irritation for the buyer.

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2243361)

Yes, if it's over the value threshold, any single graded card not sold by a couple specific sellers goes to PSA to authenticate the slab, but not the card inside. It seems to encompass CSG, SGC, Beckett and PSA slabs that PSA has to give an approval on, possibly more but the policy is really vague. The slab authentication double dip is the part I think is getting into comical territory.

Buy card. Get it slabbed. Put it in a sleeve to protect the slab. Have PSA validate the slab is real. Put an otter box case on the slab to further protect the slab. Get a purple sticker put on the slab.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2243363)

It is a significant contribution to the anti-fraud effort and a great thing for the hobby. Feel good about it!!

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2243367)

Thank you for reminding me, I wouldn't want to be one of those old know-it-alls who complains about everything and thinks Shohei Ohtani sucks. I love these new developments. Now that my plastic slab is secured by several layers of protection, both physical protection and mind-easing sticker validation, I can sleep secured that my slabs are authentic and in the stated condition. Because PSA would never lie or cheat. I can trust them, and my slab. I came here to collect cardboard pictures of other men, but I stayed for the clear plastic in otterboxes.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 2242792)

I don't buy raw cards on eBay very often, so I couldn't care less.

Realize my life would be a lot easier here if I knew everything like you guys and just consistently complained about everything. I could complain Ebay is not doing anything on fraud. Then I could complain that they are trying to do something on fraud but it's a hassle. Again, just like the larger political environment we are all dealing with. Complain politician is doing nothing about problem A. Outrageous that he hasn't spoken about this issue. Then complain politician's proposal on problem A is woefully inadequate. Then when politician changes proposed problem rip him or her for taking so long to deal with it. And then complain that problem really doesn't have to be addressed in first place. And then slam cost of trying to deal with problem. Whatever the move is just complain.


It's a cool system. Just complain about everything.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman (Post 2243615)

Based on my (admittedly tiny) sample of orders, I think the eBay authenticating gig may be adversely affecting CSG's service. I've had an express (7 business day) order sitting there for 12 business days and counting.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2243642)

Could see the impact on CSG being far greater than PSA because CSG actually has to have a grader look at the raw cards.

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2243664)

Almost certainly so because CSG has to actually do something and evaluate the item, whereas PSA has to glance at it for 2 seconds and go “yeah that’s a slab”.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2243667)

They also have to assemble the nifty authentication kit and I am sure do some data entry, not to mention packaging it up and mailing. I wonder how many cards are coming into PSA a day now for this purpose.

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2243676)

As a starting point:

eBay sold listings go back 3 months.

In the Trading Card Singles category there are 138,178 sold listings, with a price over $500.

Of these, 78,981 have a grader assigned to the listing.

78,981 / 90 = 876.566 per day average.