ebay authenticity guarantee limits now 250/750
 

So every raw card listed at over 250 and every graded card listed at over 750 now has to be authenticated before going to the buyer. That has to be an astonishing number of cards daily, no? I am sure PSA looks very carefully at its own cards, many of which were graded weeks ago. Insane.

Crap, this will affect my poor ass now. As a collector of oddities and stuff the graders don't know much about (boxing) I have concerns they will reject perfectly good cards and make it a pain. Shipping delay is annoying and eventually being forced to pay off the graders for raw cards will be too, but this is my larger worry.

Is it still "free for a limited time"?

Yeah. But at some point someone will have to pay for the review, assembly in one of those stupid folders, and shipping. For graded cards this is about the stupidest thing I have ever seen.

Yes.

I'm guessing it will be the seller who ends up having to foot the bill...

Anyone know what they are going to do if PSA decides a graded card is not authentic or that the case has been altered? What if the card is misgraded? Would PSA have the authority to confiscate the item or remove it from the case?

No doubt at least until it gets passed on. I don't get it. I can't imagine buyers view this as adding any value for graded cards, and it's just going to piss off sellers and raise prices.

What happens when it's a card the graders don't know or touch? Like an unchecklisted cabinet card that PSA won't grade? Anyone have a direct experience with what they do under this program?

I wonder how PSA got the gig for graded cards, what with its backlog of subs over a year old.

Any chance anyone here knows someone at eBay that can explain or be interviewed on a sports card podcast? They must have a plan, even if it isn't being shared publicly right now. Would be great to know more about the terms/edge cases.

What if they decide the same about SGC cards?:cool::eek:

I could be wrong but I think they have the whole graded card gig. Someone please correct me if I am wrong?

This is my main worry too. Couple weeks ago I was the first to see a rare card I've wanted and haven't seen one for sale ever. Price wasn't a bargain, but I'm sure someone else would have bought it if I didn't. It didn't pass authentication, and they didn't say why. It's miscut, so could easily get an "Auth" if graded, but the seller didn't list a condition, so that shouldn't have mattered. Anyway, it ended well because I was able to buy it again and this time the authentication thing didn't kick in because it was less than $250. But my worry is you find a cool rare card, they reject it, then the seller sells it to someone else, and you miss out on it for no good reason.

I would think you could mostly avoid that result by communicating immediately with the seller once you find out about the rejection and offering to buy it again?

That is frustrating. Pay more, wait longer and potential issues in between. Especially with graded cards cannot say that makes much sense

I sold a PSA graded card to a Canadian buyer but it does not have me sending it for any authenticating. Are they not doing it for out of country sales?

I bought a set of "NM" cards on ebay. When I got the set the key cards had been pulled and replaced with beaters. I complained, and the seller said he sent NM cards and I must have replaced them myself.

A few months ago someone posted on Net54 that he bought a graded card for several thousand dollars and received an empty box. Seller said the card was in the box when it was mailed.

An intermediary like PSA can eliminate most of these disputes.

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I sold a Joe Choynski cabinet a little while ago. They made me send it to their authentication center.

I got a note that it didn't qualify for authentication as it was listed in the wrong section (Trading cards and opposed to photos, I assume), and sent it along to my buyer without authenticating.

That's better than what I was fearing they would do. Thank you

+1
Agreed.

Unfortunate this is why this procedure has become necessary.

My guess is it’s in eBays best interest to do this if it costs them a small amount to avoid not only the fake raw cards but also the scams where the card is never sent out since now they hold the money until it clears verification. This way they aren’t paying out item not received claims or incorrect item claims and the seller closing the account before the money can be taking back. Since it’s verifyinfnand not slabbing my guess is the cost at bulk for them isn’t much and is a much cheaper hit than refunds with their guarantee.

This isn’t much of a problem, need to wait a few more days to ensure not only the item is authentic but the seller is too. Considering during peak covid it could take months to receive a package I don’t see a few more days being an issue (only issue I have is I’m unsure how it is guarantee from authenticator to final address from loss or damage.)

Not really sure the point of grading cards that are already graded, but unfortunately this is the next logical step in the insanity of a TPG world that already has purple labels and Brent-approved stickers for how nice your grade is or is not.

I've been less than thrilled with eBay for some time, and for all practical purposes quit selling cards there about a year ago. Looks like my timing was pretty good...

Just a few more questions, is Ebay (or PSA or whoever), sending the packages out insured? What happens if USPS loses a package between the review and the buyer getting the card? Who is responsible?

They don't hold the money until it clears verification. I sold a card on Friday, May 13th, shipped it to the "authenticator" on Monday, May 16th and I received the payout in my bank on Tuesday, May 17th.

How often, though, does this happen, it must be an infinitesimal portion of transactions. To prevent those, is it worth putting nearly every significant transaction into this new mode? My own experience and I bet it's typical is that I have not had a problem with an ebay purchase in the 20+ years I've been buying. I mean, probably some graded cards were hacked but this isn't going to prevent that.

PSA is not authenticating the card. They are only authenticating that the holder has not been tampered with.

https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-...dingcards/#faq

Peter, I doubt ebay is doing this if the issues are infinitesimal. Be grateful you are not a typical ebay buyer.

Al, I get the raw cards, although it makes more sense to me as an optional service if the buyer wants it. Graded, especially in light of what David just posted, makes no sense to me at all.

When I sold a card recently (already in a holder) on eBay and it had to be checked, the shipping label was directed to a specific named person at PSA. So my suspicious is they hired a bunch of newbies at least on the already graded piece of this and gave them a few hours training on what a holder and what a tampered with holder look like. And then say that's what you are to do for 8 hours a day, get going.

I kind of agree with Peter. Yes, issues are frustrating and time consuming when they happen on eBay, but I've been buying there for 23 years now and I would estimate my rate of "issues" with buy transactions to the point where I have to get eBay involved is probably less than 1%.

They aren't grading the card again, they are just trying to verify that the slab has not been tampered with.

Ok. But it is authenticating cards that have already been graded, which is very close to the same thing.

Sorry, but an experienced collector cannot tell this from the scans before they buy? If the scans are of such poor quality that I cannot tell on eBay, I'm not pulling the trigger. A card that has been tampered with or a slab that gets damaged in the mail was already covered by the eBay guarantee - which is actually quite good.

I'd rather the card get to me quicker and take the risk (that pays off 95% of the time or more) that everything is just fine than have to send an SGC slab to PSA so that PSA can say the slab is not compromised on every single card over a certain amount. Sorry, that's just silly. I've had slabs arrive that are cracked in a way I didn't notice before I bought them. I've either sent them back in working with the seller, or had eBay step in on the rare occasion where the seller didn't want to play ball. It always works out. I'd rather do that only when I have to and trust the process that works the rest of the time. I guess I get what eBay is trying to do, I just think it should be optional.

No offense guys, but pretty remarkable how many people had very passionate opinions on this before they even bothered to understand what it actually involved.

Ah, a sign o' the times . . . .

I don't think Ebay has anyone grading cards that are already graded. My understanding is Ebay is having PSA review the holders of graded cards to make sure they are legit and haven't been tampered with. Not sure if they're also supposed to review the flips to make sure they're legit and accurate a well. That, to me, is way different that re-grading cards that have already been graded.

It is also a bit concerning because how and when did PSA suddenly become an expert in reviewing slabs, especially any other TPGs slabs? The TPGs most likely all contract with outside companies to design and manufacture the slabs they put cards in, and have people in their employ just learn what they need to seal them. Not sure how that specifically qualifies any TPG as an expert to review and determine that slabs may have been tampered with, or that they are legitimate to the TPG that supposedly issued them. I would think someone with the slab manufacturers and/or their designers, and a background in plastics, would actually be a much better choice. And if they are also concerned with the flips, and possible counterfeiting of them, PSA will certainly have full access to all their own graded cards records to be able to check cert #s and such, but how are they going to have such access to other TPG's records? And on the surface, this also can easily appear to be an inherent conflict of interest in that PSA is now looking at other TPG's slabs and can raise concerns and issues about them, while possibly passing on concerns and issues that may exist with their own slabs. I'm in no way saying they're doing that, but it is usually best to be independent in fact, AND APPEARANCE, when doing something like this.

I'm guessing that the actual card graders at PSA have little, if anything at all, to do with this graded card slab authentication program they're now involved in with Ebay. Many people have voiced concerns about how PSA has a huge grading backlog they are still dealing with, so they question how can they take on additional work like this for Ebay? I'm guessing the slab authentication is handled by none of the actual card graders at PSA, and is really having no impact on their grading backlog and getting caught up on it. Just speculation on my part.

To me it's all just more noise on top of noise. Flooding the proverbial zone...

All of the respected TPG's have had major trust issues at some point in their respective histories. Whether or not they have recovered / earned trust again is largely up to individual collectors. Clearly the PSA base was not significantly, if at all damaged - by PWCC-gate and related events since 2019.

eBay suddenly raising their heads to care about this at all out of nowhere is amusing to me if nothing else - they never before and do not now have the first bit of common hobby knowledge about sportscards, and until now have not ever pretended to act like they care. This is the company that still highlights $200k Fleer Jose Uribe cards in my social media feeds, for cripes sake. :(

This is insane

Maybe the problem with counterfeit slabs is far worse, and getting worse, than believed.

When real good counterfeit slabs of high end cards begin to flood the market the hobby (as in all of us) is truly fu*ked.

At least the slabbed part of these seems to be a nothing burger to me and a net positive. Sold one card and it delayed the card getting to the buyer by maybe 2 days? When someone has to start paying for it it will be an issue.

For any sellers/buyers who would like to avoid having cards go through this authentication service/process for whatever reason, simply sell a card as a part of a "lot". Selling at least one additional card with the card that qualifies for authentication would, according to ebay's fine print, not have to go through this process as lots are currently not eligible for this service/process.

John.

Maybe it seems like just noise, especially for us collectors, but remember, cards are actually a very small part of Ebay's overall business. These things they do are likely being done from a more purely business standpoint, in mitigating any potential liability and other concerns, that may arise and scare off potential sellers and customers. Truth is, hard core collectors, like most of us on this forum, are not critical to Ebay's business, and Ebay virtually never thinks abouts or concerns themselves with Net54, or care what and how we feel about them.

Still, I can't imagine Ebay does things for no good reason. They likely view some of these things they are implementing as potentially heading off issues they feel may impact their business negatively down the road. And they don't have to tell us their real reasoning why! Unfortunately, not a lot we can really say or do, we just get stuck living with it.

No, I get it. eBay is the world's biggest garage sale. Hodgepodge galore, no specialization in any one area.

My comments on the last were pointed to the fact that they would seem to be implementing a very specific policy on something which they clearly have no expertise with. Maybe from a business standpoint they think it will help with the number of cases opened and returns initiated and that sort of thing, and that would be valid. But as to nuances of how collectors (and those that would consider themselves investors) would deal with the situation or the detail of operating practices for this TPG or that, you can't tell me that eBay has a clue. It's just an interesting proposition.

That's what I was wondering about as well. Sell that Cobb with a 400 count box of '88 Donruss and you're good to go!

I agree with you John, they have no special expertise. But just like how they suddenly decided to start collecting sales tax for every auction, I think a lot of their reasoning was that they figured that if they didn't, they could be losing sellers. Think of all the people selling on Ebay that don't really know, or want to know, about collecting and remitting sales taxes. Also, that would have called for all their sellers to start registering with various states for licenses to collect and remit sales taxes. My guess is that Ebay saw that a lot of sellers would be gun shy and not want to bother doing that, or ever put up with the hassle of sales tax collection at all. And Ebay probably figured that since they are such a huge marketplace, they'd have a target on their back from states looking to find out who was selling on their site and ask for info to go after them. Ebay actually sells nothing, and is not at all responsible for collecting and remitting sales taxes to states. I can easily see Ebay thinking that by going overboard, and working out a deal with the states to collect sales tax on behalf of all their sellers, the states would be happy, and the sellers wouldn't have to deal with this and register with states and keep track of all this. That way they stay selling on Ebay.

These other moves regarding authentication are likely some kind of a pre-emptive things they think will help keep customers and sellers for them down the road. I know there are lots of people who think this new authentication program by Ebay is a scheme for them to be able to end up billing more fees. I don't think this is a fee issue for Ebay, just more of a "making sure the customers are happy" thing.

FYI, eBay has also rolled out authentication services for sneakers, watches and luxury handbags. So clearly there is a bigger business focus here than sucking up to PSA or any of the other theories that have been advanced in this corner of the world.

Exactly, it isn't solely about PSA, CSG and card or slab authentication. It is a means to an end for them, to keep customers and sellers happy and coming back.

I forget the specifics, but my understanding on the sales tax decision was that a court case came down which put the handwriting for that on the wall. I'm not sure if eBay was compelled to put that in place by a certain date or if it was just obvious that they would soon be challenged if they didn't. I will agree between issues like this, and changes to policy such as surrounding authentication - it would seem more difficult to business on eBay than ever before.

When I first joined eBay, you could see full info. on both sellers and buyers, and even message competing bidders. I once contacted a bidder who kept topping me saying "Hey could I persuade you to let me win this (vintage scouting photo...) because my father-in-law is in it, and I would like to give it to him as a gift." The guy wrote back and graciously agreed. Can you imagine anything like that happening today?

Thanks Steve, that's interesting to know. Clearly as a business decision eBay can do anything they want, and most collectors who utilize them for the superior marketplace characteristics have no choice but to meekly comply.

How many of us have some kind of moderate / large issue with at least some aspect of how PSA does their business? I would guess most. How many of us continue to own and buy PSA slabbed cards anyway? :)

We all know that eventually this will just be another skimming center for eBay fees. Sellers will receive that "we just did something great" email ramming this 'service' down our throats at a cost, and eBay will skim its 3% off the deal for processing payments for this 'service'. The proof that this is a proposed profit center rather than a legitimate effort to protect buyers is in the complexity of the solution. The vast majority of card buyers are familiar with what they are buying. If you want the buyer to have a chance to look over a raw card purchase, the answer is simple: give all buyers three days from receipt to review their purchases and hold the funds until the three days is up. if the buyer decides to return the item during the return period, the funds are there pending proof of return to the seller. It is called "escrow" and it doesn't cost eBay a dime: eBay is already processing and holding funds. If the buyer doesn't apply for a return, then after three days the buyer is SOL. And don't do it at all for slabs--they are already vetted. But nooooo, eBay prefers a solution where everyone has to be inconvenienced and put at the mercy of a third party's (possibly bad) judgment. Why? Because eBay can make money off that process whenever it decides to force the cost onto sellers by charging its funds processing fee on the cost.

Why unveil this now? Probably because in their recent earnings call, eBay cited Gross Merchandise Volume (GMV) down 17% in the first quarter of 2022, year-over-year. Revenue down 5%. And the number of active buyers dropped 13% from 163 million in Q1 2021 to 142 million in Q1 2022. They are scrambling for revenue and imposing a new service and skimming yet another processing fee is a way to get it.

So when does the cost get imposed? I'd guess around Black Friday, just in time to force sellers to choose between paying the piper in order to sell into the holidays or telling eBay to get stuffed and scrambling for another platform.