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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>If anyone has heard from him or seen him I need to get in touch with him asap about a deal he and I did. I have sent several emails and no responses.....thanks

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Posted By: <b>Bryan Long</b><p>I spoke with Scott he said he was selling off his collection except the Cocoas that he has. I'm not sure if this means he was also taking a break from the forum or not.<br><br>My website: <a href="http://photobucket.com/albums/b45/trib01/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://photobucket.com/albums/b45/trib01/</a>

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Posted By: <b>tbob</b><p>Hi Bryan. That is certainly news to me, Scott has been actively bidding against me on ebay on several cards, all non-Cocoas so I guess he changed his mind.<br />Bob

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Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>I have been calling him at home , calling him names, all kinds of goofy stuff and no response.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>If he doesn't get ahold of me soon the district attorney will be contacting him....

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Posted By: <b>Brian Daniels</b><p>" I hate people who steal money" ( famous quote )<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I got the check in the mail...back from my bank after they took the funds out of my account. He STOPPED payment on it. Never called me. Never emailed me. AND he has my D304 in a 40 holder.....I would be cautious....and my 3rd email to him today is still unanswered. I will be contacting the authorities in the next few days. If any of you lawyers want to give me some advice I will take it. He has my card. I don't have his money....all I have is a check that says "STOP PAYMENT" on it....I sincerely hope there is a good explanation and I can come back on here and say it was a mixup or something....I guess I have done about 1500 or more card transactions and never had this happen so far....regards

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>bcd - YOU are STILL the only person who outright steals money that I know of (besides the scam artists on eBay). Speaking of contacting the authorities, I will be doing so against bcd next week (after my re-financing is done on Friday - hopefully).<br /><br />Anyway, here is my explanation. I probably should never have done this, but just wanted Leon to know how it feels to be ripped off (even if it is only for a little while, since I have every intention of sending him a money order for the card).<br /><br />Explanation:<br /><br />This all started when daniels ripped me off for $883. I posted SEVERAL times on the board (even started posts without hijacking) and Leon would delete these posts. Leon finally gave in and let me post a limited explanation as to daniels ripping me off. He was such a nice guy, letting the thread stay up without being locked for an entire two day period!<br /><br />I will try and make this story as short as possible. The night before I stopped payment on the check, Toby (a great guy to deal with, whom I have had many deals with and is new to the board) asked me to post a thread about our dealings, so people would not be hesitant to deal with him. So, since I consider Toby a friend, I posted. Well, Leon deleted the post and sent me a rather nasty e-mail about the posting. THAT is when I came up with my plan to stop payment on the check. I didn't know he would mail the card out in the meantime. I just wanted to let him know that b/c he is the "Fuhrer" on the board, doesn't mean he can treat people who have done nothing to him like ****! Plus, he was still letting a known rip off artist - brian daniels - post on the board and even selling $2 black lights on the main board (yeh, the funds went to charity - daniels' charity!).<br /><br />I have put up with a lot from Leon over the years. However, I thought he simply needed a lesson as to how it feels to be blatantly ripped off as I was with daniels! This might not be right and I do not condone it, but knew it was my only route, since he could delete any post I placed on this board (as he will probably do with this one as well).<br /><br />Leon started the false rumors about the Fan's Baker being fake on the board when it was being auctioned. I was planning on bidding up to $15k on it, but was stupid and influenced by Leon stating several experts questioned the card's authenticity. Leon has backed out of a deal regarding a Cobb card for caramels with me (causing me to explain to a certain collector as to why I would not be able to trade him a Dockman Young I had promised that was a part of the deal). I let all this slide - even though, I would not have done those things myself.<br /><br />THEN, when he kept deleting my posts on the board and was acting like it was no big deal daniels ripped me off for $883, the anger started building! To make matters worse, he locked the thread after only a couple days b/c others were coming forward with horror stories about deals with daniels. THEN, when I post about Toby being an honest person to deal with, he deletes that thread and sends me a nasty e-mail regarding my post, that was the last straw. Especially, with daniels posting right and left after just ripping me off. Hell, after I explained the situation between daniels and myself to Dan McKee, he even apologized for making a false offer on the Matty when daniels was trying to go up on the price with me!<br /><br />Bottom line - Leon will get his money (in the form of a money order). I am just making him sweat it a little first to know how I felt, so maybe he won't be so quick to delete anyone's posts about being ripped off in the future. I do notice he didn't delete his post about me stopping payment on the check! Like I said, I don't condone what I did. However, I assure you - I do not steal (like brian daniels) and Leon will get his money. I am also certain many of you might not condone what I did (and I don't blame you). It was a burst of fresh air when I told an unnamed board member what I did and why I did it and he told me it was hilarious! Anyway, no need to worry about my honesty, as I was just making a point (although, I probably went about it in the wrong manner, I didn't know how to make my point to Leon with him deleting all my posts).<br /><br />BTW - Tbob, Bryan Long is correct - I am going to basically quit collecting everything and focus on the Cocoas and cards that I like the backgrounds and/or poses. I will also be picking up cards I think I can trade for cards I need as well.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I really don't know where to start. I will say that some of your stuff probably has some truth somewhere. I am just not sure where so am going to let you vent. Folks that know me know I would not do bad deals. Dan M and I have had about the most tension but I think it's straight now, and I don't think I ever ripped him off. As for anyone else that I have wronged please come forward. My record speaks for itself....You may still send back the card if you can't afford it, Scotty....kind regards

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Posted By: <b>Brian C Daniels</b><p>some of us actually live with women we are married to <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />but if anyone sees this( opps! bummer-image gone but I have it** )<br />please let me know if any " board member puts "it on e-bay as it belongs to ME and is reported as stolen~**<br />expired photo-but e-bay item 1827083002~<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8321029006&ru=http%3A% 2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fws%2Fsearch%2FSaleSear ch%3Fsofocus%3Dbs%26satitle%3D8321029006%26sacat%3 D-1%2526catref%253DC5%26fbd%3D1%26amp%253Bsspagename %3Dh%253Ah%253Aadvsearch%253AUS%26from%3DR6%26nojs pr%3Dy%26fscl%3D1%26pfid%3D0%26fswc%3D1%26few%3D%2 6saprclo%3D%26saprchi%3D%26fss%3D0%26saslop%3D1%26 sasl%3D%26fls%3D4%2526floc%253D1%26sargn%3D-1%2526saslc%253D0%26salic%3D1%26saatc%3D1%26sadis% 3D200%26fpos%3D95009%26fsct%3D%26sacur%3D0%26sacqy op%3Dge%26sacqy%3D%26ftrt%3D1%26ftrv%3D1%26sabdlo% 3D%26sabdhi%3D%26fsop%3D1%2526fsoo%253D1%26fcl%3D3 %26frpp%3D200%26fvi%3D1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8321029006&ru=http%3A% 2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fws%2Fsearch%2FSaleSear ch%3Fsofocus%3Dbs%26satitle%3D8321029006%26sacat%3 D-1%2526catref%253DC5%26fbd%3D1%26amp%253Bsspagename %3Dh%253Ah%253Aadvsearch%253AUS%26from%3DR6%26nojs pr%3Dy%26fscl%3D1%26pfid%3D0%26fswc%3D1%26few%3D%2 6saprclo%3D%26saprchi%3D%26fss%3D0%26saslop%3D1%26 sasl%3D%26fls%3D4%2526floc%253D1%26sargn%3D-1%2526saslc%253D0%26salic%3D1%26saatc%3D1%26sadis% 3D200%26fpos%3D95009%26fsct%3D%26sacur%3D0%26sacqy op%3Dge%26sacqy%3D%26ftrt%3D1%26ftrv%3D1%26sabdlo% 3D%26sabdhi%3D%26fsop%3D1%2526fsoo%253D1%26fcl%3D3 %26frpp%3D200%26fvi%3D1</a><br /><br /><br />El-adulterkins,the only reason you post this stuff on here is because you have no other card contacts or "card buddies" anywhere else! This is why when you wanted to cry to folks like Dan Koteles he yawned and ignored you while whining. Nobody gives a hoot about this bologna except you and your seared conscience. File with authorities all you want! You are the boob who cried Wolf righting this stuff to me 20 times two months ago.Yawn.I dont owe people money and no one posted I ever did except you.....Mr.check bouncer who cant even come clean on telling your live in "fiance'" of 3 years you have no intentions (or checking account to marry her). next~ <br /><br />you best go back to illegal cock breading and fighting to cover yourself on explosive checks! You comitted an illegal act against Leon and made yourself out to be a complete fool that you are. Ok,Ok.....i'll sell you the Croft's Cocoa Seigle......how's $3800? I know you want to pay $5k for it but I'll be nice about it for you being as your the poster boy for a laugh today~<br /><br /><a href="http://www.terrellowens.com/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.terrellowens.com/</a> your hero~<br /><br />amazing, I am the reason you deliberately committed a crime! When I get pulled over ,if it ever happens Scott.......can I blame it on you?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>you claim I have no money, yet had to get me to pay for your $893 eBay winnings you could not afford! Then, never paid me back. And, as for the "rare coin" you claim I have of yours. It is a coin worth less than $200 that I NEVER asked you to send. In fact, you sent it against my will -wanting me to sell it for you on eBay (I still have all the e-mails and documentation along with the coin). You did this AFTER I told you I would NEVER sell anything on eBay for you again when you shilled the Plow's card I listed for you (than McKee caught you doing). Like I have told you, I will gladly send that stupid barber qtr. back to you when you send me the money you owe me! I never wanted you to send the coin and never wanted to sell it for your shill-bidding ass! Also, you are an idiot - trying to change the subject of you blatantly stealing from me by talking about me living with my fiance' - what a dumb ass you are! <br /><br />Also, I almost forgot about Leon getting mad about my deal with Toby for the Cocoa Wagner and Young in which he tried to interfere with after I had sent Toby $6k+ for the cards!!!!!!!!!!! That rather pissed me off as well. And now that I think about it, is why he was mad at Toby.<br /><br />One last thing - stealing $883 from me is an illegal act daniels. You are the fool. And, if Leon would have let the thread go over three days, the posts from people who have had bad dealings with you would have been four figures (that is probably why your buddy Leon locked the thread when he did!!!!!!!!!!!). BTW - the Barber Quarter will be going on eBay shortly to help me recoup some of the $883 you owe me - I will just take it off your bill!!!!! If you want to report it stolen - go right ahead and make a false report, b/c I still have all the e-mails to where you begged me to sell it for you and have all the documentation to where you owe me money as well for paying for the M116 for you. Hell, maybe I should report it stolen????? ESPECIALLY since I PAID FOR IT and you have it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Brian C Daniels</b><p>dude,get a clue-you did something to leon and made a complete and utter childish fool of yourself in the process. I'll get 46*** or 47 letters filled with laughter. you are dishonest and guilty of your own accusations. I have nothing to do with this. By the way,best go read your own last post on the bogus please give Scott emotional support thread. You claimed vehemently and repeatedly you had NO coins of mine but above NOW are clearly admitting it! What a piece of work you are child fool. I know you'll be checking this every hour and posting Scott like you did last time but you are the poster boy for demented today. Feel free to have the authorities contact me...I'm sure they will clear it all up to your disliking. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>I received 4 or 5 times that many from people with horror stories regarding you when I first posted about you stealing from me (and that was only in a short two day thread!).<br /><br />BTW - when people threaten others and make fun of their Religion, Race, Sex, Age, National Origin, etc. as you do, that is childish as well! Hell, I even admitted I should not have done what I did to Leon (I just couldn't get through to the Fuhrer any other way!). When are you ever going to be man enough to admit you owe me money!??!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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Posted By: <b>Brian C Daniels</b><p>bye Scottie,say hi to your two girlfriends you had children with independant of marriage of both... for me.... I wont be checking back every hour like you. I have things to do and you have a lifetime of explaining to your parents next door~ <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>I might even understand it some day!

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>...explain it to me.

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Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>Scott,<br /><br />What a whiny punk you are!!! Guys like you are why this "hobby" sucks sometimes. <br /><br />Please, just sell your collection and go collect Barbie dolls or something where none of us here will have to deal with your b.s.<br /><br />You should thank Leon for his restraint and compassion. If that were me, it would be very hard not to visit you in person to trade your rubber check back to you for my stolen cards.<br /><br />The most fitting punishment for your crime (yes, crime) is that you are the one that has to live in your skin. Good luck sleeping at night. Your life must be incredibly unfulfilling for you to be so compelled to behave in ways that create so much drama and chaos. I suppose if any of us were in your shoes we, too, would probably want to distract ourselves from the reality of our existence. Next time, try heroin. Yours might be the one case where you'll actually cause less harm to others as a using drug addict than you did when you were clean. <br /><br />-Ryan

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Posted By: <b>scott ingold</b><p>My poor name. Oh what to do ? I guess i could change it.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>This may be the worst thread that has ever been on network54. After I read it I felt like I just descended into hell. Something needs to be done to bring this back to civility.

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Posted By: <b>Will</b><p>Need some computer help.<br />I once had a site saved as a "favorite" that would take me to vintage card forum. Now, it takes me to a soap opera forum and, what's even worse, they are running repeats.

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>I should just stick to rubbernecking.<br /><br />--Chad

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Posted By: <b>Darren J. Duet</b><p>Hey Barry, although I don't think this thread is hell it's getting hot in here. Hell would be being directly involved in it.<br /><br />Signing Off from the Inferno,<br />darren

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Posted By: <b>Texas Ted</b><p>This reminds me a lot of watching Roller Derby. I think the addition of some music and maybe a little popcorn would add a lot also.<br /><br />I will now return to the lurk mode.<br><br>Texas Ted<br />

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Posted By: <b>Greg</b><p>I couldn't agree more with Barry. I sometimes wonder why I continue to read some of the posts that are put on here. While I'm pretty new to card collecting, and know not a single person here, I've been around long enough in another collecting field to recognize that this hobby has some very childish and ugly moments. It's really a shame as I've come to communicate with some very nice people here and in my local area. I thank those folks.<br /><br />Why do so many posts have to do with badmouthing other collectors or ebay sellers, talking about the almighty dollar and how much money a person pays for their collection, lawsuits (good grief), and, well, I could go on and on...<br /><br />I thought that this was a hobby.<br /><br />It's too bad we can't flag the posts that actually have to do with the history of our national pastime and leave the junk in some junk bin.<br /><br />Just my two cents from a person who isn't part of the in crowd, but who cares just as much about history and the history of baseball to chime in.<br /><br />Greg<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>After coming back into the hobby after a long hiatus, I've found most of the people I've come across are really exceptional. This kind of stuff is noisy and gets lots of attention, but I truly believe it's the exception to the rule. In fact, it's good to know it goes on, in a weird way, as it prevents me from being lulled into a state of uber naivete by my almost universal happy dealings with other collectors.<br /><br />--Chad<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>and stop it...

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Posted By: <b>Bruce Babcock</b><p>There are some ways in which computers have been a negative in our lives. Without computers we would have been spared this thread. <br /><br /><br />And why IS this thread so wide? Good luck, Leon.

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Posted By: <b>derrick zoolander</b><p>Sorry to see such tension. I agree will Barry, and hope that somekind of order can be restored. I have had great deals with Scott and have no problem dealing with him again. I also read he lives with two females? No bad. Jack Tripper did ok with that and I won't hold that against you Scott.<br /><br />Maybe at the national we can settle this. I will bring the beer. First one to shot gun a beer wins and can assume they are the correct party. Either way, everyone who participates wins. We will be using Bud Ice.<br /><br />Hope this gets resolved.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Nate</b><p>It sounds like some people here really need to grow up. I'm only a young, dumb, idealistic college student, but I can clearly identify all of this as sophmoric behavior. Regarding the previous post, I would love to shotgun some beers right now...Bud Ice would be MORE than fine.

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Posted By: <b>ramram</b><p>I agree this thread ought to be bombed but....<br /><br />Let's just admit it - we're all disgusted with this stuff but yet we all catch ourselves checking back to see how this has progressed. Once in a while we catch ourselves watching some of a stupid reality tv show, or slowing down to leather-neck at the highway wreck even though just a few minutes earlier we were honking at all the idiots ahead of us who slowed down to look, or telling your wife to be quite a minute and leaning back in your restaurant seat so you can hear the conversation at the table behind you as they talk about somebody you know, or putting on those mirrored sunglasses when your at the pool and your wife is around, or....

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Posted By: <b>Nate</b><p>that's extraordinarily insightful.

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Posted By: <b>Darren J. Duet</b><p>Zoloft for everyone!

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Posted By: <b>David McDonald</b><p>A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.<br />-- Steven Wright

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Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>For all the bitching about the behavior and the posts, I am really glad Leon hasn't torpedoed this thread.

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>Ram is correct! It's like these two fought, the fight ended and we all watched it and now we are commenting on how much we didn't like watching it even though we watched it. <br /><br />We can always turn the channel or in this case, simply avoid this thread.<br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Guys and Julie,<br /> I don't wish to comment on the bad deal between Leon and Scott, as I have had several successful dealing with both. I would like to point out that our "Moderator Dude" usually likes to handle disputes through private email versus postings on the board, so he evidently had no choice but to post on the board. I have personally asked Leon for help on 2 similiar situations, which both got taken care of without any accusations or disputes being aired in the public forum. I hope we can continue this practice in the future, so that these types of post don't detract from the fun of Vintage collecting. Be well Brian

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Posted By: <b>ozzyzoe</b><p>Is this the vintage card forum, or do I have the wrong number? I have been reprimanded for a lot less. What gives?

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Posted By: <b>JudgeDred (Fred)</b><p>Brian, <br /><br />Help me understand something <br /><br /><b>I have personally asked Leon for help on 2 similiar situations, which both got taken care of without any accusations or disputes being aired in the public forum. I hope we can continue this practice in the future, so that these types of post don't detract from the fun of Vintage collecting.</b><br /><br />Do you mean that you asked Leon to get involved in dealings that were not his to begin with? If so then I would profusely thank Leon for his time and efforts, if I misunderstood this then please let me know.<br /><br />I wouldn't want to bother Leon with deals that did not involve him because he's got his own life (besides babysitting us) and he's the board moderator not the deal moderator. If he doesn't mind doing this then we've got a gem here for a moderator. Personally, I'd rather not bother him though. <br /><br />I don't like reading about deals gone bad but since there is a B/S/T associated with this forum there is the possibility that things may go wrong with these (or other) deals. Perhaps a link could be added to the B/S/T that is called BBB VBBC (Better Business Bureau - VBBC). If anyone has an axe to grind about a bad deal it could be done through this thread and away from the main forum. Call it a public service link that will inform the forum members of possible considerations before dealing with someone. We'd have to keep it to negative feedback (unless you want to start another thread that's called B/S/T Positive Feedback) because I'm sure that there are so many good deals that happen that the negative ones would get lost. <br /><br />Just a thought....

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Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Fred,<br /> No, I did not ask Leon to arbitrate any deals I was conducting, but asked for his guidance in dealing with a mutual friend who would not return my emails. I think you missed my main point, which is to say, that most disputes should be handled off the board between the parties involved and not in the public forum. My post was meant to show that our moderator dude usually prefers, and even guides most diputes in this direction, so If he chooses to use the board he must have little if any alternative. I guess I would rather email a few of my Board 54 friends for guidance, before posting any acusations or negative comments on the board. I hope that answers your question. And yes. I believe are Moderator Dude DOES AN EXCEPTIONAL JOB.<br /><br /> Be well Brian

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Posted By: <b>JudgeDred (Fred)</b><p>Brian,<br /><br />Thank you for the clarification. The post could have been construed in different ways due to the limited amount of information provided. You're right, these posts would be better suited out of the main stream of the forum.<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />Fred

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Posted By: <b>bigfish</b><p>Set Elkins Free. He is a good guy!! This post should be dealt internally so nobody gets dragged through the mud or thrown under the bus.<br /><br />Barbara Walters

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Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>Scott Elkins chose to bring this to the board, rather than trying to handle this privately. Although I like Scott, he has compounded his original error (which he readily admits) by coming on here and calling the moderator names. This is childish. As a previous moderator, i know how frustrating it is to be insulted when you are trying to do your best, and have people take issue with it in an inappropriate way. Kudos to Leon for resisting the temptation to respond in a like manner. FWIW, hasn't this thread gone on long enough and shouldn't it just die a natural death.

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Posted By: <b>Cat</b><p>At least within this thread Scott didn't bring it to the board.<br /><br />I think the one thing that is inordinately unique about this board, above all boards that I have ever participated in, is that history is re-written so fast. This thread was started with Leon looking for Scott and then publicly posting some details of the deal going south... all before Scott even posted. I do not know one person within this thread, but deals going south and people feeling slighted is one thing, but someone who brings in so much crap about Scott's personal life is just plain BS. This, above everything else within this thread, is what folks should be concerned with.

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>amen

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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>I would also agree. I don't think Leon posted this topic to open it up for personal attacks and insults that have nothing to do with vintage cards. He was trying to locate Scott in hopes of resolving a dispute. <br /><br />I'm staying clear of this one because I don't have all the facts. And, I really don't want to get involved. I think a few other posters should have done the same.

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p> What amazes me the most is this is the kind of bickering I would expect to find on some teenage chat site. I though I was joining a group of mature adults that enjoyed the hobby and comradery SP? of others that enjoyed the same passions. I guess its just the age we live in. The computer world has made us all faceless and fearless behind a monitor. I've seen it on every site I have ever been on, so this is not something new, just something I didn't expect from here. I would give my opinion of the actions of some here but I shall refrain. I guess the purpose of my post was that I had hoped I had found a site where I could sit back and discuss our passion like adults and act like adults while we were doing it. I will continue to look for that peaceful enjoyment. <br /><br />A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>I just want to say it's sad that Scott is no longer active on this forum based on the extreme harassment of another board member. I for one will miss Scott's expert posts.

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>?

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Voluntarily.

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>And apologize to Leon for pulling his chain...but come back.