Help on a Walter Johnson Autograph
 

Does this Walter Johnson autograph look good?

https://www.kelleherauctions.com/lot...747/727729.jpg

Thank you.

Steve

Yea


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Authentic Steve

I'm wondering if the "1907-1927" might be in his hand, also. There's an unusual amount of separation between his signature and the date, but it looks similar to his numbers to me. If so, I don't remember seeing a signature followed by his pitching years, but it might have been requested by Mr. Gorman.

Thank you all for your thoughts.

The cover was auctioned this morning, and I got it at the opening bid :)

Hank, I was thinking the same thing on the dates.

Steve

Steve,
Congrats on your win! Hank is correct, the dates look to be written by Walter.
Here is an example of more WaJo handwriting complete with dates

Congratulations on a nice snag. While I would never ever challenge Hank on Walter Johnson's autograph (or almost anything else). I just wanted to put a reminder out there that a lot of people have forgotten and some new collectors have never heard of but in the late 1980s, the hobby was flooded with "signed" Hall of Fame envelopes and black and white Hall of Fame plaques that its believed came from two different sources. They were pretty good fakes and still turn up from time to time, there were literally hundreds and hundreds of them. So be careful with anything but especially with those signed mediums mentioned above. I can be reached at the e-mail below
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And I have always, and will always, defer to the real autograph pros like yourself, Jim, or Kevin, or Bill, or Richard, or Rich, etc., when it comes to my grandfather or anybody else. Having seen such a variety of his signatures that I knew to be good, and not being an expert in autography (?), I am reluctant to pass judgement on all but the most obvious forgeries, and if pressed, will always preface my decision with "If I had to guess one way or the other..." In this instance, you'll notice I didn't address the autograph itself, but rather noted that the numbers struck me as similar to others of his I have seen. It would be natural to see that as bolstering the case for the authenticity of the whole, but on the other hand, I suppose that if these forgery artists can simulate a really good WaJo, replicating his numerals wouldn't seem to be that great a challenge. I am curious: what do you think of this piece, Jim?

It is interesting as i think the auto and the numbers look like they were in the same hand, imo authentic, but the "Washington Senators" part seems to be in a different hand.
I wonder if the person wrote the team name first and the Johnson sugned above it and added the numbers below.

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I think you've got it. He mailed it to Walter with the team name already written. I'm guessing he asked Walter to include the playing years, and the only place to put it was below that.

My first thought upon seeing this is that there appears to be 2 different inks used . The Walter Johnson and the dates appear to me to be the same ink type and in the same hand but the Washington Senators ink seems to be a different type and hue of blue and written in a different hand.

I think its same ink and all done in Walter's hand. I do agree the Washington Senators appears a bit darker, but I believe that is because he signed his name faster because he is used to signing his name more so than writing Washington Senators. Dates appear to be same shade etc as signature.

Hank, My opinion is that all of the Walter Johnson autographs on this page are good. I lean in the direction of what others have posted that the team name is possibly in another hand and that the dates are in W.J. hand although I would not completely rule out the possibility that he wrote the team name also. He wrote a lot of handwritten letters and a quick review of the handwriting on some of those should close the case. Since the slant appears the same.
Also to clarify the fake HOF envelopes I've seen have never included anything except a signature.
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Was able to find this one online. The "Washington Senators looks pretty darn close.

And....even more, unusual is note the difference in the "S" in Senators and the 2nd "S" in Sept. written seconds later. Same person completely different.

Walter Johnson
 

Have had this note for a while. Everything looks fine then slight change in the "Washington" and even more so in the "Ball Club". This thread has become quite interesting and informative.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4356/3...2c3f1548_c.jpg980AAED2-6A3D-4ABF-A23B-162D0D441ABD by Hugh Murphy, on Flickr

Hugh, Look at the separation in yours between the "g" and "t" in Washington. It's the same in the top one. Also, the capital "W"'s are all shaped like grandma's knockers.

“Grandma’s knockers”. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Damn Jim, I just spit up my corn flakes all over the computer. Grandma's Knockers? LMAO

Lol. Grandma's knockers...
Let me say it again, but it is good to have you back.

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Jim is back, back again and that’s good news!

Beautiful Walter!

The cover itself is a neat one.

The stamp was officially issued the day before in Cooperstown.
So why does this one have a cachet and look like a first day cover?

On the official first day the only place they were for sale was Cooperstown.
The next day was the first day the stamp was available nationwide.
For a while, stamps were always first for sale in Washington, then later official first days were held, usually in a place somehow related to the topic of the stamp. (a practice that continues, at least ceremonially)

Some old fashioned collectors didn't like this, and for a while some dealers made a bit of money providing "real" first day covers, cancelled on the actual first day of availability and not at some newfangled publicity stunt the day before.

Of course others provided first day covers from other places by being early at the official ceremony and mailing a few from each of various places on their way home.

I did a bit of detective work, and found that the addressee of the envelope, Clyde D. Gorman, was an auditor with the US Dept of the Treasury in the 1940 census, when he was 53 years old. Back in 1917, he was working for the US Dept of Agriculture in Washington DC.

So, he was in DC when Walter Johnson was active. He may have gotten the postmark himself, in the thought that it was the first day the stamp was available in Washington DC (where Walter Johnson pitched), and then sometime later got it signed by Walter. He may have requested Walter annotate his team affiliation to tie his career to Washington DC, and give further legitimacy to the postmark.

Steve

That may be. some of the cachet makers sold blank envelopes, some didn't.
It's also possible the maker of the cover had it sent to Mr Gorman, which was typical.
It's also possible the maker was Mr Gorman, many of the cachet makers of the era had day jobs.
I'm hardly an expert on who made what cachet, but there is a first day cover society that could probably answer that easily.