T205 - Big 4
 

I don't collect T206 but when reading anything about the set there is usually a reference to the Big 4 cards...Wagner, Plank, Magee and Doyle.

I do collect T205 and it got me wondering what cards would be considered the Big 4 in the T205 set.

Certainly the top 3 would be the variations of Hoblitzell-no stats, Wilhelm-suffered and Mathewson-1 loss...but what would be the 4th card?

Would it be the Moran-stray line or possibly one of the Wallace no cap variations?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

John

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Hi

I am not collecting that set but once I was considering do it

Here is a pretty good article on it

https://www.cardboardconnection.com/...baseball-cards

Anson at prewar cards considers the Cobb the 4th

https://prewarcards.com/2019/10/15/t...error-ty-cobb/

My vote would be - Bobby Wallace (No Cap, One Line of 1910 Stats)

Others to consider:
Gray-no stats and Moran-stray line, are hard in higher condition. And Joss is one of last cards set collectors seem to need and always sells well.

My vote is for Moran Stray-line, but Cobb is a good vote too.

Big 4
 

You nailed the first 3, and I would agree on the Wallace 1 line. Tough to find in good shape. I love collecting that set!

I think you would have to clarify the way the top ones are decided. This guy is in there somewhere...

https://luckeycards.com/tyt205.jpg

Love that Cobb!

I apologize for not being more specific in my original posting.

Let's separate scarcity and value although it is likely there would be a card or cards of the T205 Big 4 on both short lists.

I agree that a very nice condition T205 Cobb would be in the Big 4 value wise...but there are probably 10 Cobbs listed on Ebay as I write this...so if you want a Cobb you can find a Cobb.

I am more interested in the scarcity issue. After the Hoblitzell-no stats, Wilhelm-suffered, Mathewson-1 loss I am leaning toward the Moran stray line as the 4th card for scarcity

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Totally agree concerning scarcity. Cobby in higher grades is fairly scarce but his is not a scarce T205. I like your Moran stray line choice.

PSA population shows a few less Moran stray line than Wallace with one line, but there are way less than a hundred of each.

I agree with Moran stray line as 4th scarcest.

PSA Pop Report top 4 are:

Mathewson, Christy (1 Loss Variation) Cycle Back
Hoblitzell R. (no stats on back)
Wilhelm, Irvin K. ("suffered")
Moran, P.J (stray line below stats)

close behind are:

Gray, Dolly (stats on back)
Wallace, Bobby 1 Line 1910 (HOF)
Latham, A. (W.A. Latham on back)


All of those showed less than 75 copies graded as of about a year ago (last time I checked it).

A fantastic set to build and have! Also far tougher to finish than t206 in my humble opinion (of course)!

T205 Mordecai Brown with Drum back

Since 1969 I have really enjoyed collecting and putting sets together.

Even if you started today to build the master set of 221 T205 cards containing the scarcities discussed in this thread as well as a couple dozen other Hall of Fame cards...you could put the T205 master set together for less than the cost of a T206 Honus Wagner card that looked like it was run over by a truck.

Sometimes it is difficult for me to wrap my head around something like that.

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You can buy a house for less than the cost of a T206 Honus Wagner card that looked like it was run over by a truck.

Sometimes it is difficult for me to wrap my head around something like that.

This is amazing. Anything over a 3-4 in these is so tough IMO

And if you're going by grade to define tough, here are a few toughies from my PC. Love the t205's!!

.

I still need the Mathewson Cycle 1 loss but here are my 3 toughies.

I hope it is a shorter period of time to add the Mathewson as it was 20 years between my Hoblitzell and Wilhelm...I'm 61 so not sure about the over/under on that bet

Wilhelm suffered - purchased this month

Hoblitzell no stats - purchased in 2001

Moran stray line - purchased at a Philadelphia Sportsfest show in the 90's

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9de365251e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...538cceb0c3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...738b4b332d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...822a4a4c9c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d3436f49cf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0e3897c205.jpg

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Here are my toughest 4 from a scarcity standpoint as well.

Nice
 

Beautiful cards Troy. Love those. I gotta find Wilhelm!

Wow Great Cards

Love the Cobb and the Mattys'

Nice Troy!

I have the Wallace one line in a PSA5, and I can tell you it took a lot of time, effort and money to land it. I wouldn't want to attempt to try the other toughies today.

Maybe instead of a Big 4, the T205 set should have a Big 5?

Not sure who the 5th card would be in the Big 5...but if you make it the Big Six you gotta include Mathewson for obvious reasonshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e9a5967d4a.jpg

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Loving those Hoblitzell no stats.

The four that Troy shows in post #21 (which already includes the Matty Cycle/1 loss variation), plus the Bobby Wallace - No Cap w/two stat lines variation.

I thought the Wallace with 1 stat line was the tougher variation.

My Top 5 and Honorable Mentions
 

Toughest:

#1 - Hoblitzell (No Stats) - Only available with Hassan Factory 30 back
#2 - Mathewson (37-1) - Only available with Cycle back
#3 - Wilhelm ("Suffered" in 18th Line) - Only available with Cycle or Hassan Factory 30 back
#4 - Wallace (No Cap, 1 Line) - Only available with Honest Long Cut or Hassan Factory 30 back
#5 - Moran (Stray Line) - Only available with Piedmont Factory 25 or Polar Bear back


Sleepers:

Gray (Stats on Back) - Only available with Piedmont Factory 25 or Sovereign back
Latham (W.A. on Back) - Only available with Sweet Caporal Red, Factory 42 back

Most Iconic:

https://i.ibb.co/QYt7Rj8/matty.jpg

Was never quite sure about that. Old SCD catalogs I have show conflicting info. A 2011 catalog has the one line version valued at $18,000 NM, and the two line version valued at $7,800 NM. Fast forward to the 2015 SCD catalog and they now show a NM one line version valued at $3,000, and the two line version valued at $8,000 in NM condition. I know to not rely upon such for current values but, always found the SCD catalogs as a fairly reliable source for showing the relative values between cards in a particular set. Based on that published difference between those years, I wondered if possibly there had been a change in the status and scarcity of the one line version that was found during the ensuing years between those two catalogs. I haven't really looked at any Beckett or other published valuation listings in well over a decade, so don't know if this is possibly some printing error on the part of the 2015 catalog SCD then?

If it is an error, I did not otherwise know. And if that is in fact the case that the one line version is still the rarer and more valuable, perhaps the T205 set should not have a Big 4, or a Big 5, but maybe a Big 6 group of toughest cards and include both the one and two line versions of the Wallace - No Cap card in that group. They are both pretty darn hard to find IMO.

I have the 6th edition of the SCD which looks like it is from 2016. It has the Wallace one line of stats at $5000 and the two line of stats at $4000. The SMR price for the one line of stats is also higher so it appears that the current thinking is the one line variation is higher priced. Also, there are only 72 of the one line variation graded by PSA compared to 112 of the two line variation.

Interesting the valuations on those kept changing so much year to year, that is strange. But looks like maybe the 2015 catalog I have is in error? See the PSA pop report numbers you noted, wonder if SGC shows a similar tilt toward the one line variation being rarer also.