scarcity of lesser known T207 players
 

I've been getting up to speed on this set a bit, and keep reading about how certain cards of lesser-known players are extremely hard to find. Does anyone know why this is? Is there evidence that they were short printed? (I keep seeing the Donlin card referred to as a "short print.") Or do we think that the more obscure players were just thrown away more often?

I'm convinced the market has never compensated for the apathy of lesser players. When you look at things like Turkey Re Cabinets where you could select your player, everyone went for the stars and almost no one wanted the utility players. That should create a glut of the stars and a paucity of others.

Now, the market today still reflects that, so demand for Cobb and Mathewson will outweigh others, but those who do want a Jack Murray or Hooks Wiltse will have a much harder time finding them. Take a look at the BST here, or even ebay. The stars are plentiful, the commons are not.

This should hold true for any card where the player could be chosen before purchase. Post, Hostess, Red Man etc. The pricing gap between tier one stars and the benchwarmers should be much smaller than the gap from pack pulled cards

Tim Newcomb wrote a great article detailing some of the nuances of the set.

https://oldcardboard.com/eNews/2010/.../eNews74.htm#2

Net 54 Posts as well
 

Definitely check out the article Mark refers to above.

Be sure to get your hands on the VCBC issues Tim refers to (References section) in that article as well - they're worth their weight in gold for a introductory (and beyond) understanding of T207 and its idiosyncrasies.

--
Mike

Tim's VCBC article mentioned is the best in depth study on T207's...I second Mike's recommendation.


Below is an overview of the set that Mike (above) posted here. There are also other great T207 threads on here as well...I will add some more links if/when I come across them.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=221863


Here is the set checklist on the Old Cardboard site that identifies whether a card is from the Recruit/Napolean group or the Broadleaf/Cycle group. Pretty much any from the Broadleaf/Cycle group will be tough to come by, and there are definitely 40 to 50 of the Recruit/Napolean group tougher by various degrees (but in general not as tough to come by as the Broadleaf/Cycle cards):

https://www.oldcardboard.com/t/t207/t207list.asp


And here is a fun article from the Prewar cards site about collecting the set:

https://prewarcards.com/2021/08/03/a...ally-complete/

Brian

Thanks everyone for the responses and the resources. The oldcardboard site is great, have used that to dig deeper into other sets but didn't think to do it for T207. Scarcity correlating to back type makes sense, interested to learn more about how that. Looks like I've got some good reading ahead of me, thanks again!

great read

T207 scarcities
 

Hi all,
Thanks for the kind words about my research, which is now 20 years old , holy cow!

Since then I've watched some fluctuations in what seem to be the toughest t207s. For a while it seemed like Donlin was the toughest of them all, but then a few of them came out of the woodwork and I began to think that somebody flying beneath the radar, as Donlin had once done, might be hardest. Somebody like Mogridge.

In any case, I'm still convinced that Lowdermilk and Ward Miller are overpriced relative to their scarcity, and several others underpriced.

Concerning the "obscurity of the players" theory, i agree that it must play a big role in some sets like T3 and Worch Cigar. With sets like t207 or t204 where cards were pulled from packs it still plays a role, but somewhat smaller.

With t207, I'm guessing something else was operating with some players, especially Donlin, who was a bona fide star even beyond basebal, from his vaudeville exploits. If anything he would have been collected more enthusiastically than the average player. He was with Pittsburgh the whole season but only played in 35 of the first 89 games, so it's imaginable that he was added into the set later in the season. But then there would be an odd number of players, not a round 200 total with 50 Broadleafs. So that seems unlikely.

In any case, some of the tough ones like Lowdermilk and Irv Lewis, are ultra-obscure guys. But there were several others equally obscure in the Broadleaf group who are much easier to find. And Ward Miller, for example, was a starter for several years.

So a clear pattern is hard to trace. But it's fun to speculate.

Tim

Yes, let's hear it for George Mogridge, without whose pitching contributions the Senators likely would not have won the 1924 World Series! If Mogridge is the toughest T207, I'm glad to have examples of what I think are all 4 cards of Mogridge that are known to exist. FYI, I am not a T207 collector; rather, I collect cards of all the players on the 1924 Senators team. And because Leon likes threads to have pics, here are my Mogridges (a couple of which I'd be happy to upgrade - hint, hint!):

Mogridge
 

Well, clearly Mogridge isn’t so tough after all. It’s just that Val has them all :)

LOL! Good one, Tim! LOL!

Great discussion and links for me to bookmark for future references.

T207
 

The players who can be found with Recruit backs are more common than the tougher Broadleaf/Cycle players. Some of the lowest populations of graded cards are these:

Adams
Bauman
Birmingham
Bushelman
Donlin
Donnelly
Houser
Kuhn
Mogridge

Finding any of these in Excellent or better condition is very tough.

If anyone can do it, our Val can! (see his Cycle of Mogridge a few posts above)

Brian

T-207
 

I like that this set has great back variety, a lack of star players, horizontal options and action poses as well as portraits. Cool issue!

I have always found that among stars in the set Tris Speaker is a tough one. And if you ever run across a T207 with a Red Cross back, don't hesitate - buy it.

I am partial to the T207 Hoff, and your Broadleaf is a great one. My Hoff is not in as nice condition, but it happens to be my only Cycle back, and it also has the bonus of Buck Barker's writing filling various open areas like a good sealant does.

Brian

There was a hoarder on the Hageman some time ago. I think it was a family member. Makes that card tougher then it should be.

From what I’ve read and seen, it’s usually a mix of both. Some of those lesser-known players were definitely short printed on purpose-like the Donlin card you mentioned-so they’re naturally rarer. But also, because the players weren’t super popular, collectors or even sellers back then might not have kept their cards as carefully, so more got lost or tossed.