Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorewalker
So now it is someone else's fault that "nearly everyone still walks away with that assumption"? I am not a lawyer either but I don't think assumptions play a huge role in the judicial process.
For starters, maybe PWCC should not have placed themselves in the predicament they are now in--knee deep in fraud. Or do you see that as also someone else causing them all of this grief?
So do you love PWCC that much or do you just like playing the contrarian?
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I mostly just like playing devil's advocate, or at least think that all sides should be considered in discussions. I hate when groupthink starts off with a set of assumptions (which are often invalid) and these discussions just build and build on top of them without those assumptions being challenged. This shill bidding topic is a prime example. People have been accusing PWCC of shill bidding (PWCC themselves, not just their consignors) for years. Before this whole eBay scandal blew up, whenever people were asked to provide evidence of these shill bidding claims, the crowd always pointed to the fact that PWCC got higher prices for their cards than other eBay sellers. This is of course absurd, and in no way constitutes evidence, or even suggests, that PWCC was shilling their own auctions.
As far as whether or not I "love PWCC"; no, I definitely do not. I have zero cards in their vault, and despite having consigned hundreds of cards in the past, I've never once chosen PWCC to handle my consignments. If they happen to have a card that I want up for auction, I will bid on it because I want the card and don't care who it comes from. As far as my experiences go with them, they haven't been positive. I bought a high-grade vintage card from one of their auctions a couple years ago and after it arrived I noticed that it was clearly trimmed on the left edge. Irrefutably trimmed. It was sharp as a knife and lighter colored than the other 3 edges. I took close-up photos of the edges which clearly showed what I was describing and asked to return the card. They threatened to ban me from all future auctions. I wasn't happy. I've also recently had another major issue with a high-end purchase that was extremely frustrating to deal with. But I don't let those experiences cloud my judgment about whether or not they have engaged in shill bidding. I believe it is in PWCC's best interest not to engage in shill bidding, and to furthermore prevent it to the extent they are capable. I do not believe that they shill bid, and am not capable of believing it without sufficient evidence. I believe they act in their best interests.
This whole discussion reminds me of all the conspiracy theories about all of the online poker sites "stacking the deck" to increase the rake (the amount deducted from each pot that goes to the house). It was very easy to demonstrate that this was not happening and that it would be extremely stupid for them to even try, yet if you were to poll 100 random online poker players, you would probably find that at least 30% of them believed the decks were in fact stacked against them.