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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
Clemens, in his last four seasons in Boston when he should have been in his absolute prime (age 30-33), went 40-39 with a god awful ERA. This wasn't just a guy who had an off year. He had completely lost his dominance. I don't think you will find many Red Sox fans who believe his remarkable turnaround from that point is due to anything except PEDs.
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His last 4 seasons in Boston he was 8th in MLB in fWAR ,29th in ERA with 3.77 and 16th in MLB in FIP with 3.69, he was still a really good pitcher. Tho, it's fairly obvious that around 96-97 he began PED's because from age 34-41 he was one of the 3 or 4 best pitchers in baseball which just doesn't happen .Player's don't have two peaks to their careers.
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That is much better than Bonds who only had 2 MVPs, 176 HRs and a WAR of 50 prior to doping in SF.
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wut? Most evidence points to Bonds starting ,at the earliest, around 1996 (statistically the big change appears around 1998/1999) but giving you the benefit of the doubt of 1996, between 1986-1996 Bonds had posted 81.8 WAR, 334 HR, 380 SB, a slash line of .288/.404/.548 , following a normal decline Bonds was going to be a 500 HR club member and post over 100 career WAR ,still making him a first ballot HOF type.
I condemn his PED use as much as anyone, but he was easily the best player of his generation and an easy HOF'er before using (which, makes it even more pathetic) but is why he and Clemens will get voted in either this year or next.