Quote:
Originally Posted by jgannon
You still don't get it. Not everyone was going to post an 0.85 E.R.A. in Chavez no matter how good the park was. To say that Koufax was primarily a product of the ballpark, doesn't take into account that different people were going to perform differently in the ballpark due to their ability. That's why I am comparing him to the other Dodger pitchers.
You just have refused to acknowledge that Dodger Stadium or no Dodger Stadium, Koufax excelled there because he was great in his own right. The home/road splits are being overblown. 2.31 and 1.96 weren't exactly bad road E.R.A.'s.
This debate has been a side one, because one of the reasons people here have dismissed him as not being the all-time greatest lefty has been that he was merely a creature of his ballpark. I say you have to be a great pitcher first to throw 0.85 in any ballpark.
Just skip it.
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You are still arguing against things not said, instead of what it is said. I have acknowledged Koufax had a great streak for five seasons and used numerous superlatives in describing them as "astounding", etc. He is still a product of time and place, a time and place that are very, very favorable to him, historically so, as they were not for pitchers who had much better careers.
Nobody has said he wasn't great these years. Nobody has said other Dodgers of the period were better. Not a single post has said this.
The same handful of strawmans, arguing against points nobody has actually made, again and again and again and again while ignoring the points actually made.