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Old 01-24-2003, 03:14 PM
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Default Pete Rose in the HOF?

Posted By: warshawlaw

Rose stays out. He bet on baseball while active in the game AND was caught before being elected to the HOF AND agreed to a lifetime ban. If he really thought that lifetime meant something else, he is a fool. Big distinction between that and the other situations under discussion.

Timing of revelation and election is key. No one seriously suggests that Speaker and Cobb should be tossed from the HOF today, yet they undeniably fixed a game. They denied everything at the time and the ex-player accusing them refused to show before Landis and testify. Landis did not have the resources to investigate the issue as we could today, so Landis acquitted them and ordered the AL to reinstate them. Read "Baseball As I Have Known It" by Fred Lieb, which has a great account of the whole incident. If the revelations about Cobb and Speaker's game fixing came out today before they were elected and an investigator like Dowd was assigned to the case, they'd be ruled ineligible, period, just like Rose, and I would not have a damned bit of sympathy for them.

The "law" of baseball is clear: get caught betting on baseball while involved in the game and lose your eligibility.

All that being said, I strongly believe that off the field antics and issues separate from baseball are not a basis for excluding a player from the HOF. For example, if they were becoming eligible today, revelations about Speaker, Hornsby and Hartnett being KKK members would certainly be tossed around as reasons to exclude them. I would disagree with that because the HOF membership is based on baseball achievements, not on life achievements. Babe Ruth was a drunken whoremonger, Mickey Mantle was a drunk and Joe DiMaggio was a venal, nasty bastard. Willie Mays is probably the surliest, most unpleasant ex-player I've ever had the misfortune of meeting. Does that make it right for Bud to declare them ineligible? No, and it should not. Let the voters decide. I am so tired of people demonizing players for behavior that is unrelated to the sport. Put a horse's ass into the hall if he played well enough to merit it and the voters care to let him in, and let the fans learn from that person's life. I think people are a little more adult and a little more sophisticated than we give them credit for being, and would be able to explain to little Jimmy that Rogers Hornsby was a racist pig in life but a hell of a hitter, or that Mickey Mantle was an alcoholic.

As for signers, kudos to Hank Aaron. I went to a show some years ago where he had a terrible time getting there with multiple flight problems, yet he stayed late to sign everything anyone wanted and was courteous and talkative with the fans the whole time.

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