I understand your point. But Lou, don't you understand why Brett's numbers
should be better? He played one of the premium offensive positions in baseball. Third base. First base. Left field. Right field. When WAR is measured, adjustments are made for second basemen, shortstops, catchers and center fielders, because typically, players at those positions won't generate anywhere near the same kind of offense the corner outfielders, third and first basemen will. Those guys are typically bigger, and slower. Shortstop is the most demanding defensive position on the field. When you plug a guy like Yount, as great as he was defensively, and then turn him into a wrecking ball with the bat, that's much more beneficial to a team than a third baseman that can hit. Because shortstop is the toughest spot on the field to fill; find a great defensive shortstop that can hit like Yount, Ripken, Trammell, and you've really got something. Now, granted, Brett was an
exceptional hitter (and one of my favorite players growing up). And he was a real good defender, too. But Yount? Look at his prime before being forced to switch to center field because of his shoulder injury.
Between 1980 and 1984, five seasons, these are his 162 game averages as a shortstop:
.303 AVG, 117 runs scored, 197 hits, 42 doubles, 11 triples, 22 home runs, 15 stolen bases, 95 RBIs. He slashed .355/.498/.854 with a 139 OPS +. For that era, that's obscene production from a shortstop.
Yount had multiple shoulder surgeries after the 1984 season. Then, after basically re-learning how to hit in the 1985 season, altering his swing mechanics in the process, he had another great four year run as a center fielder. Much of his power had been robbed from him, but his 162 game averages in center, another premium defensive position, are quite good:
.312 AVG, 98 runs scored, 195 hits, 35 doubles, 10 triples, 17 home runs, 20 stolen bases, 90 RBI. He slashed .381/.477/.858 between 1986 and 1989.
By win shares, as of 2006,
Bill James ranked the different historical players. He had George Brett as the second best third baseman of all-time (behind Mike Schmidt), and Robin Yount as the third best shortstop of all-time (though, I expect Alex Rodriguez may have passed him, depending on when he made the move to third base. Win shares is, of course, just one way of comparing players from different positions, and different eras. I don't mean to infer that win shares is the definitive metric. But I can't think of many shortstops who were better overall than Yount. Wagner, of course, and Cal Ripken Jr was just as good, and did it longer. Mr. Cub? He hit 512 home runs to Yount's 251. Interestingly enough, though, with all that power, his OPS + lead isn't that big: 122 to 115. Ernie was no slouch with the glove, either. He had some real good defensive seasons, and won a Gold Glove. They're close.
It certainly makes for a fun discussion, if you ask me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCRfan1
I don't really get too much into Saber metrics like WAR, JAWS, OARS, PAWS ect. Just looking at the basics like you find on the back of a card, Brett clearly has the better stats.
Not taking anything away from Yount.
The 75 set is one of the best for rookie cards with Yount, Carter, Brett, and Rice. Brett and Yount are the 2 to have and can't really go wrong with either. In the Era of free agency and shuffling of player's between teams, it was nice to have those 2 stay with their teams throughout their career. Rice as well.
|