Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911
If no other lefty had had a great peak, then I would accept this. Kershaw is at least equal to Koufax though, and Grove's 9 ERA crowns is one hell of a peak neither of the Dodgers have hit, plus he hurled 4,000 innings. When there are other options who are not good pitchers for a long time, like Pettite, but guys like Grove, Plank, Carlton, Spahn, Randy Johnson, I have a really hard time seeing how Koufax tops them by any reasonable standard.
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I'm not arguing that Koufax was "the best". I'm just saying he belongs in the debate. I've seen film of Koufax, but of course, tragically the games back then weren't preserved. But I never of course, saw Lefty Grove, so I really can't comment on somebody like him. The other pitchers you're talking about were all great pitchers. Everyone can make their case for them. But Koufax is in the conversation or there is no conversation, in my opinion.